Modern Vespa

My Pinasco tubeless split rims finally arrived a couple weeks ago, but I decided to go ahead and order new tires (Heidenau K61's) to go with them and haven't had time to do anything with them since they arrived earlier this week.

Tonight, I finally had the time so I set out to get it all installed on the Stella.

The hardest part of the whole deal was installing the valve stem, but only because I was Working Stupid for five minutes, trying to push it through with my hands. As I was fighting with it, I was thinking, "the guys at the tire store obviously use a tool for this..."

Once I went downstairs and got a claw hammer and a rag and used the claw to pull the valve stem into the hole, the stems took about five seconds apiece to get installed.

Then, I ran small bead of grease around the groove for the o-ring, o-ring in, a little more grease on top and it was time to button things up.

All greased up:


The o-ring


The bolts for the rims are captive. This also allows you to tell which are the rim bolts and where the lugs should go.


The bolts are just long enough to hold everything with the rim flush to itself, so in order to get it together, I started with just the flat washer and nut, then went back and added the lock washer to each nut afterwards.

Tomorrow, I'll head over to the hardware store and pick up some acorn nuts to replace my lug nuts & the rim nuts. I saw the picture of that someone (WillyB?) posted the other day and that looks pretty sharp.

Then, the moment of truth. I grabbed my bike pump and inflated to 1.8 bar/25.75 lbs to get a bead...and it worked like a charm


By this point, it was dark, but I didn't care. I was going to get out and take a ride.


And does it make a difference? To some extent, it's hard to say. I only rode a few miles and I've taken so much weight off the bike in the past few weeks that it's changed its handling a fair amount just from that.

I've removed the rear rack & milk crate (~10 lbs, maybe more), the spare tire (~15 lbs), and replaced the tires (~2x7 lbs), for a total of 40 lbs of weight off the bike. I definitely felt improved acceleration just from that.

The K61's are nice & sticky. They gripped the road through everything I tried, which admittedly wasn't all that much since it was dark and I was only in my neighborhood. This weekend, I'll get out, take them on the highway and run them through some curves to see how they do then. The highway will be the real test case--will this thing now feel safe & stable up past 65mph or so?

I won't really be able to say how much good this all did until I finish setting up the shocks, but at this point, if it's not handling well, that's all on me and not the parts.

So how much weight savings are you obtaining from going from the stock wheel to the pinasco wheel?

stock wheels+tires are about 15 lbs each, so 7 lbs per tire, total of 14 lbs less rolling weight.

When you finally get the time to get and and put a few miles on them, you'll immediately notice it being a little quicker off the line, plus you'll notice how much more stable the bike is at speed and how much better it turns in at speed. Wheels, good tires, bushings and adjustable shocks transform these bikes, especially in safety and predictability. Definitely money well spent and amazing how many are running hot motors with substandard suspension components.

Can I ask where you got them?

I have been asking myself this question for about a year now. SIP or Pinasco, my local dealer will fit the tyres if I go down the SIP road, so thats not going to be a problem, but do I want to rely on him all the time or go down the Pinasco route and do it myself, they both look excellent & I have not heard a bad thing about either. Then comes the price.

www.scooter-speed.com
Sometimes he stocks them and some times he has them in a week or so.

That's the beauty of the Pinasco rims, you can install them yourself. They go together like the stock rims with the exception of the o-ring between the halves, and as an added bonus, they don't rust, so no more tire being fused to the rim halves. I've done 2 sets and have gotten it down to less than five minutes assembling a rim with tire.

I have used the Sip wheels with no issues for over a year and they look the part as well

Those look great chandler, nice upgrade. Was thinking about some tubeless rims for the Super.. does anybody makes a tubeless 8"?

I agree 100% with this already.

I was out running errands today and the bike is DEFINITELY faster off the line and has more torque. I know part of it is the 40 lbs of weight I took off, but it's a pretty noticeable increase.

It also feels like the power band has broadened on the low end and the 50-55mph range is more comfortable to run at than before.

Also interesting is that the head temps have come down a lot. The motor is clearly not having to work as hard, especially on the low end of the power band in 4th gear. Previously, that could be a bit of an awkward range. It sucked watching the CHT climb up into the Danger Zone when I was on the highway and traffic was running at the wrong speed.

As to handling, I feel like haven't begun to touch what it's capable of in turns or at high speed. I was riding it pretty hard today and it felt completely stable, even if I don't think I got up over 55 (I was using the speedo, not GPS, and its readings get pretty random up over about 45 or so).

The ride is stiffer and I have to wonder if it would get tiring on a long ride, but in general, I'd already say it's a significant improvement.

Also, I replaced the rim nuts with cap nuts. I may do the rest of 'em for consistency, just can't quite decide.

Removing a few pounds of rotating mass (wheel and tire weight) is equivalent to removing several pounds of static mass due to rotational inertia. So it is OK to stop at the Krispy Kreems on the way home! Here is an interesting read: http://hpwizard.com/rotational-inertia.html

BTW, I have a set of Pinasco splits sitting in my workshop right now. I have not mounted them yet but they are sure purdy. Wish they would make a Lambretta rim!

The Pinascos are quality rims, have been running them for about 6 months now... prefer them functionally and aesthetically to the SIP rims.

One thing to be aware of... even though they're split rims and thus easier to get tires on, getting them off is another story. Because of the bead if you're using stiff tires you still may need some kinda bead breaker or tire remover to get the tires off when it's time to replace them.

Is the offset the same as standard with the Pinasco rims? I know the SIP ones have a slight offset.

Thanks,
Rog

From what I can tell, it is. I didn't measure, but they seem to be the same.

Yeah, reading various blurbs they seem to be standard offset, I ordered a set for my Bajaj in polished alloy, will post pics when they arrive!

Thanks for the review it helped make my mind up, they seem to be the best of both worlds!

Thanks,
Rog

Honestly, from a new set of rims?? Impossible.

Has anyone have these on the PX 5 star disc brake hub? Is there any problem when fitting them? Thanks!

I'm sure I read that some people had issues with the Pinasco rims and the five spoke front hub, but it seems like these guys fitted them ok:

http://vespa.proboards.com/thread/4654/pinasco-tubeless-split-wheels

Thanks,
Rog

Are you joking? Removing rotational, unsprung weight can have all those effects. Why do you think racers buy ultra lightweight forged alloy and magnesium rims?

And, as I noted above, I took a total of 40 lbs off the bike, including 15 lbs of rotational momentum.

That's almost a 20% reduction in the weight of the bike.

where did you get the 15 lbs from?

edit: I just read above.. no shit. they're that much lighter? wow..

I think I need to try a pair of these..

I want to, too, but $140 a pop is a pretty steep price.

Sweet, just checked my Heidenau K38s that I have waiting to be installed and they're tubeless, thought they were tubed.

It appears he is just guessing on the weight of those things. A rear rack with empty milk crate is not 15 lbs.

Nor is a complete wheel.



He just made this shit up. No doubt he shaved some weight off. But the amount he quoted is just made up.

So in psychology there is this thing called cognitive dissonance which basically says that your mind won't hold two thoughts that are conflicting or contradictory. For instance, "I paid 300 bucks for a set of rims" and "I can't tell any difference." So it will compensate to reduce the mental stress.

In all seriousness though, a stock rim and tube don't even weigh 7 pounds total, so how can you reduce their combined weight by 7 pounds?

who's got a scale? I only have a people scale... rims won't register..

How much does a split rim weigh?

How much do the Pinasco rims weigh? each?

Anyone have a scale? and at least a split rim?

Damn, I just had one in my hand this morning, but now it's tubed and tired and back on the bike. Couldn't have been much more than a pound, though.

a friend of mine has weighed the Pinasco tubeless and a piaggio split rim..

the difference, including the inner tube (or lack there of on the tubeless rim) is about .72lbs. per wheel.

He also says they feel way better, roll better and are great.

I'll try a pair when I can.

Funny you should ask...

Adding weight to the left side of a 2005 Stella 2t

But he used the term "rotational momentum." So many letters count for something, shirley.


Let's make a list of all the benefits provided:

Lighter wallet
Lighter scooter
Cooler Engine
Better MPG
Better Efficiency
Brighter Colors
Better cornering
Better Other Stuff
Makes Pies


People need to reign in their desire to show people how awesome what they are doing is. It makes you look foolish when others take a hard look and find everything to be hyperbole.

I weighed my stock Piagio rims with Continental Zippys and tubes. 10 pounds each
I weighed my FA Italia Margherita rims with S1s. 7 pounds each
I weighed my Pinasco rims with Heidenau k61s. 8.6 pounds each
I weighed my Pinasco rims with S1s. 8.4 pounds
These were weighed on a digital bath scale

I'm guessing SFvsr is off his meds again?

I got 11.6 lbs on a stock rim w/Michelin tube and Kenda tires.

Looks like someone's got a case of the Mondays...

Because it's become a much bigger deal that I ever would have expected, I just went out and did some weighing. First, the rear rack + film crate. My original post estimated it at 10 lbs and it came in at 13.0 lbs.



I weighed the Pinasco+K61's with 20lbs of air at the time I assembled them and they came in at 8lbs each.

I didn't weigh my tires at the time of the original post. Someone in a previous discussion of tubeless tires said a stock 10" wheel with tube was about 15 lbs so I just used that. Shame on me. I threw the old tires in my shed and didn't really feel like bringing a dirty tire in the house to put it on a scale.

I just weighed my old tires (stock LML/Stella with Continental Zippy's and tubes) and they came in at 10.05 lbs each (20.1 lbs when I weighed two of them together).

So adjusted math:
3*10 = 30 lbs of tires & wheels removed
13 lbs of rear rack removed
= 43 lbs removed

2 * 8 = 16 lbs of tubeless tires+rims installed. I don't have a spare right now.

= 27 lbs removed total, 4 lbs of which are rolling weight.

I was off by 13 lbs (32%, which is a pretty poor margin of accuracy, I'll admit) with my original number.

Meh.

Just weigh yourself then weigh yourself holding the rim.

double post

Good thinkin'.. it's really crappy scale though.. it'd round it up or down a pound or so.. anyway, I hadn't even thought of that..

next time I'm at Harbor Freight I'll just buy a crappy good scale..

Currently running Pinasco rims on a late model PX w/the front star hub and had no issue w/fitment.

Ordered a pair of Pinascos. My original rims have the paint flaking and rust setting in. Was gonna get them powder coated but thought the Pinascos were a better option. Also ordered a spare pair of O rings.

You should have aired them up with nitrogen or helium whatever.