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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
Have you ridden a flat twin ?

Bill x
'81 R100RS with a dual-plug conversion and oversized Mikuni slide carbs, bought in '05 and ridden for a few years and about 16,000 miles. Great bike for its time and still a hoot even a quarter-century later, but not designed for the vertically-challenged such as myself. The carb conversion made it a bit cold-blooded and fussy to start. It's been parked a long time awaiting restoration.

Wouldn't mind an RnineT Racer with a set of Helibars so I could actually ride it for more than 20 minutes without needing a chiropractor. It's just that when you no longer need to hang the cylinders out in the breeze to keep 'em cool anymore, there's no engineering reason except legacy image to do so. I mean, I do get that part of it, but it doesn't seem like quite enough. (I concede that's a personal opinion, and further concede it's coming from someone who owns a Vespa that despite being an homage to their classic smallframes, has a 4-stroke engine and a rubber-band transmission.)

Balance? KTM makes a 74HP, 690cc single that's reasonably smooth. Taming a parallel twin should be a much easier task -- and BMW already makes their share of them, too.

I've got a Husqvarna Svartpilen 401 (Duke 390 but with sensible styling and actually good ergonomics) and oddly it reminds me of the Airhead -- higher RPM, of course, but with half the cylinder count it works out about the same in terms of exhaust-pulse frequency. Similarly narrow, similarly torquey (well, after accounting for the much smaller displacement...). The Svart is a lot better at parking-lot/traffic jam speeds, the R100RS was a lot better at highway speeds (legendary fairing vs. no windscreen at all, plus about 30HP extra and on-rails handling at speed).
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Re: Beaten
Bill Dog wrote:
I've dried.

I can't think of anything funny to come back with.

Bill x
Oh come on... you're slipping man.
There's gotta be a comment w/r/t a flat twin (or not a flat twin)
there somewhere.
(See what I did there?) 😉
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Re: Beaten
Bill Dog wrote:
I've dried.

I can't think of anything funny to come back with.

Bill x
How about, "If there were plastic in there she would be more top heavy wouldn't she."
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Quip
Yeah, not only have I let you down I feel like I've let myself down.

I promise you that it won't happen again.

Shameful.

Bill x
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boxers
I always thought the main advantage of the aircooled boxers was that they kept your shins and feet warm on cold days.

Had a 1983 R80RT, rode it for 25 years. Not the fastest, the suspension and frame were 'whippy', the brakes were less than confidence-inspiring. Stone-reliable, light for a fully-faired touring bike. Confortable ride for the time, decent even by today's standards.

If someone was selling new ones today, I'd probably buy one. But lost confidence in 35 year old parts.

I doubt that concept bike has less available lean angle than your average Harley. Somehow the Hoggers get by. Given that long, skinny intake tube, I bet it is a torque monster, but doesn't rev much.

Was reading an article on battery tech the other day, and ran across an interesting fact. Current batteries run around $200 per kWh. So an average 15 kWh battery pack for a bike is going to run around $3000. Until that improves, not going to see many cheap e-bikes.
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Re: boxers
Jimding wrote:
I always thought the main advantage of the aircooled boxers was that they kept your shins and feet warm on cold days. And valve adjustments were a snap.

Had a 1983 R80RT, rode it for 25 years. Not the fastest, the suspension and frame were 'whippy', the brakes were less than confidence-inspiring. Stone-reliable, light for a fully-faired touring bike. Comfortable ride for the time, decent even by today's standards.

If someone was selling new ones today, I'd probably buy one. But lost confidence in 35 year old parts.

I doubt that concept bike has less available lean angle than your average Harley. Somehow the Hoggers get by. Given that long, skinny intake tube, I bet it is a torque monster, but doesn't rev much.

Was reading an article on battery tech the other day, and ran across an interesting fact. Current batteries run around $200 per kWh. So an average 15 kWh battery pack for a bike is going to run around $3000. Until that improves, not going to see many cheap e-bikes.
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UTC quote
RRider wrote:
Miguel wrote:
RRider wrote:
Talking about BMWs:

R Nine T /5 is not a bad go for a retro bike either. Naked, air cooled boxer... and I do like this special color.

In the real world I think the price is ridiculous, but let's forget that for awhile.
It also has an oil cooler (just in front of the engine below the gas tank) that works in parallel with the air-cooling fins. And the air cooler looks like an afterthought (and BMW is not alone in neglecting the design aesthetics of the radiator). It's not integrated into the bike design at all. And, frankly, it would look better without it IMO. Just sayin'

Miguel
I hear you... I also do like a bit of design effort when it comes to bikes where the design has a clear theme - like a retro.

That said, I'm often a bit indecisive about where to draw the line. For example, I'm on the camp that thought the first Triumph Bonnevilles with fuel injection looked just silly with the fake carburettors hiding throttle bodies.

Oil, air and liquid coolers... depends on the case. On one hand the black ones in this BMW could go as the "modern part" of a retro... but I feel the same, the design is lazy. Some get grey hairs from the radiator of my Scrambler, but in this case.... well, either it is hidden well enough for me or I've just gotten used to it.
i had a '10 bonneville se...the fake carbs were silly but the bike performed well for what it was...very nimble and felt light...
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UTC quote
Point37 wrote:
RRider wrote:
Miguel wrote:
RRider wrote:
Talking about BMWs:

R Nine T /5 is not a bad go for a retro bike either. Naked, air cooled boxer... and I do like this special color.

In the real world I think the price is ridiculous, but let's forget that for awhile.
It also has an oil cooler (just in front of the engine below the gas tank) that works in parallel with the air-cooling fins. And the air cooler looks like an afterthought (and BMW is not alone in neglecting the design aesthetics of the radiator). It's not integrated into the bike design at all. And, frankly, it would look better without it IMO. Just sayin'

Miguel
I hear you... I also do like a bit of design effort when it comes to bikes where the design has a clear theme - like a retro.

That said, I'm often a bit indecisive about where to draw the line. For example, I'm on the camp that thought the first Triumph Bonnevilles with fuel injection looked just silly with the fake carburettors hiding throttle bodies.

Oil, air and liquid coolers... depends on the case. On one hand the black ones in this BMW could go as the "modern part" of a retro... but I feel the same, the design is lazy. Some get grey hairs from the radiator of my Scrambler, but in this case.... well, either it is hidden well enough for me or I've just gotten used to it.
i had a '10 bonneville se...the fake carbs were silly but the bike performed well for what it was...very nimble and felt light...
Ahh... you had my favourite color. I was very close to buying a similar bike, I really liked the looks, even the alloy wheels somehow felt right.
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UTC quote
RRider wrote:
Point37 wrote:
RRider wrote:
Miguel wrote:
RRider wrote:
Talking about BMWs:

R Nine T /5 is not a bad go for a retro bike either. Naked, air cooled boxer... and I do like this special color.

In the real world I think the price is ridiculous, but let's forget that for awhile.
It also has an oil cooler (just in front of the engine below the gas tank) that works in parallel with the air-cooling fins. And the air cooler looks like an afterthought (and BMW is not alone in neglecting the design aesthetics of the radiator). It's not integrated into the bike design at all. And, frankly, it would look better without it IMO. Just sayin'

Miguel
I hear you... I also do like a bit of design effort when it comes to bikes where the design has a clear theme - like a retro.

That said, I'm often a bit indecisive about where to draw the line. For example, I'm on the camp that thought the first Triumph Bonnevilles with fuel injection looked just silly with the fake carburettors hiding throttle bodies.

Oil, air and liquid coolers... depends on the case. On one hand the black ones in this BMW could go as the "modern part" of a retro... but I feel the same, the design is lazy. Some get grey hairs from the radiator of my Scrambler, but in this case.... well, either it is hidden well enough for me or I've just gotten used to it.
i had a '10 bonneville se...the fake carbs were silly but the bike performed well for what it was...very nimble and felt light...
Ahh... you had my favourite color. I was very close to buying a similar bike, I really liked the looks, even the alloy wheels somehow felt right.
the versions with the alloy wheels were a little more nimble than the versions with the spoked wheels...smaller tire size with the alloy wheels and the alloy wheels were lighter...didn't really look as classic but i didn't care
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Re: boxers
Jimding wrote:
I always thought the main advantage of the aircooled boxers was that they kept your shins and feet warm on cold days.

Had a 1983 R80RT, rode it for 25 years. Not the fastest, the suspension and frame were 'whippy', the brakes were less than confidence-inspiring. Stone-reliable, light for a fully-faired touring bike. Confortable ride for the time, decent even by today's standards.

If someone was selling new ones today, I'd probably buy one. But lost confidence in 35 year old parts.
...
Yeah, hear ya on the footwarmer bit. I recall riding in Utah's mountains in the fall and having to cut my stops short so I could get back on the bike to warm up again.

Of course, in the summer I'd ride with my feet on the passenger pegs whenever possible.

Man, if they came out with a RnineT variant with a 70s-80s RS-style fairing, or even RT... and it's not like they haven't reprised a few of their classics on that platform already.
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China only, unfortunately:

Honda CBF190TR, made in China for the local market. Modern tech as such.

The power is in Suzuki VanVan territory, but the looks... a bit like a more modern take on Ducati Scrambler?
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I wish
Rusty J wrote:
Man, if they came out with a RnineT variant with a 70s-80s RS-style fairing, or even RT... and it's not like they haven't reprised a few of their classics on that platform already.
The main virtue in my mind was the light weight. Replaced it with an FJR, which is way heavier, although a better bike in almost every other respect. Not sure they could replicate the light weight with modern frames, engines, suspension, etc. Frankly, a modern 600cc engine would put out the same or better power. So probably could downsize it. I'd even be willing to give up the boxer configuration.

I mentioned elsewhere that I expect the weight to become a problem in the not too distant future as I age, and that I'll be looking to move down to a lighter bike. Gotta think there are plenty of other older riders in the same boat. Never gonna get a trike. Sure seems like the MC companies might be well-served to develop some new sub-400 lb. bikes to serve that developing market. Or maybe it is just me.
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No ... you're not the only one to think so ...
It is a reflection based on long-term choices, BMW has not by chance opened its brand to scooters; has expanded the user base by offering a wide range, by weight, power and type of use.
Now you can afford a "muscular" (and expensive) model to pull the brand but to re-launch it had to first expand the offer.
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Attila wrote:
No ... you're not the only one to think so ...
It is a reflection based on long-term choices, BMW has not by chance opened its brand to scooters; has expanded the user base by offering a wide range, by weight, power and type of use.
Now you can afford a "muscular" (and expensive) model to pull the brand but to re-launch it had to first expand the offer.
BMW in Europe is apparently happy with sales of the C range and consider it a valuable addition to the Motorrad division. Sales here in NA suck but I'm sure they knew that going in. Though the guys here won't call the C650 a scooter and most like the manager yesterday just consider it a step through motorcycle. Honestly I think there is a market for larger displacement bikes with a step through design and CVT transmission. Good for the city but also plenty of power to handle the interstate highways. Not surprisingly many bling term riders I talk to say they had no idea such a thing existed.
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...really..? I didn't think things were so different ...
This happens because Italian motorcycle magazines do not describe what happens in the other markets in the world, yet it would be interesting to communicate to readers the sales strategies used.
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Liking the new little Honda ADV

youtu.be/I6lshn7FPxQ
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Kinda
In a 'kinda' retro move, the new Tenere700 will have no driver aids other than ABS, and that can be shut off. Looking forward to sitting on one. Smaller engine than most of the ADV bikes, lighter weight, smaller, simpler. Cheaper, too. No 'ride-by-wire', and the clutch uses an old-fashioned cable. Maybe hearkens back to the older 'do-everything' bikes, with emphasis on dirt capability. Maybe a bit tall for some, but might be my 'step-down' bike. Plush suspension and upright seating should be good for bad backs, and the ability to stand on the pegs periodically should help the kneees and hips. Plenty of power for road cruising, but good ground clearance if you want to explore a trail or dirt road. Hopefully will show up on time (after a long wait) sometime next summer.
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This is an interesting little bike. Well, for a cheap little Chinese bike. But, even at its price you would be about half way to getting something from a more reputable maker.

https://www.belmontebikes.com/products/boom-chopper-125cc-bobber-retro-chopper-bd125-2
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Kevin Harrell wrote:
This is an interesting little bike. Well, for a cheap little Chinese bike. But, even at its price you would be about half way to getting something from a more reputable maker.

https://www.belmontebikes.com/products/boom-chopper-125cc-bobber-retro-chopper-bd125-2
Can't help it, looking at this picture, all I can see is one the most popular Finnish 50cc (we call them mopeds, although no pedals) bike, a brand called Tunturi, especially this Super Sport model.

Engine was a 2-stroke from the Austrian Puch.

Dare I say this... I actually think Tunturi's choise of the frame looks better than that of the bobber-chopper
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... there is an aesthetic affinity between chinese and finnish motorcycles ... taking nothing away from the genius of the respective countries.
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UTC quote
Kevin Harrell wrote:
This is an interesting little bike. Well, for a cheap little Chinese bike. But, even at its price you would be about half way to getting something from a more reputable maker.

https://www.belmontebikes.com/products/boom-chopper-125cc-bobber-retro-chopper-bd125-2
The forks look almost toothpick thin. I wouldn't want to hit a pothole come spring thaw time with that.
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UTC quote
Kevin Harrell wrote:
This is an interesting little bike. Well, for a cheap little Chinese bike. But, even at its price you would be about half way to getting something from a more reputable maker.

https://www.belmontebikes.com/products/boom-chopper-125cc-bobber-retro-chopper-bd125-2
That's a fairly decent S90 clone.
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I finally saw and was able to sit on the new Kawasaki W800 in a local bike show.

The bike looks gorgeous as always, now even the fenders are proper metal again.
I could swear that the handlebar is closer to a normal one rather than the 'beach bar' of the previous model - but can't be sure. I did not pay any attention to it = probably quite normal ... I just thought about this when looking the pic after the show.

It was interesting thought. I jumped into the W800 right from a Z900RS.
W being a 'true retro' and the Z more like a nod to the good old days.

Z900RS feels just... so very good with very nice ergonomics and the plush seat.

W800 feels like the bikes used to be: ergonomics are good, but you sit like on the top of the bike, not a bit 'in' as in the modern bikes - and in Z900RS.

I would love to take a spin with the new W sometime!
It is a beautifull bike...
It is a beautifull bike...
.. but so is this one!
.. but so is this one!
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Over the last 15-20 years I've had three Kawasaki W650 bikes.

Very nice bikes.

But just ride my Buddy 125 scooter now.
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RRider wrote:
I finally saw and was able to sit on the new Kawasaki W800 in a local bike show.

The bike looks gorgeous as always, now even the fenders are proper metal again.
I could swear that the handlebar is closer to a normal one rather than the 'beach bar' of the previous model - but can't be sure. I did not pay any attention to it = probably quite normal ... I just thought about this when looking the pic after the show.

It was interesting thought. I jumped into the W800 right from a Z900RS.
W being a 'true retro' and the Z more like a nod to the good old days.

Z900RS feels just... so very good with very nice ergonomics and the plush seat.

W800 feels like the bikes used to be: ergonomics are good, but you sit like on the top of the bike, not a bit 'in' as in the modern bikes - and in Z900RS.

I would love to take a spin with the new W sometime!
I had a very rare 1975 Z1 900 with dual front disk brakes which was not a US option, it was only a EU option. Not sure how the original owner got a dual front disk one into the US but he did.
Only had 1,500 miles and I bought it for $1500 around 1980.

It was stolen from in front of my Condo when I lived in the hood that is Forestville, Maryland.
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OK, I know it's about cosmetics... but this RE is actually quite cool, huh?
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Honda CT125 Hunter Cup
Time for some good news

Honda will launch the 'scrambler' a.k.a CT' version of the new Cup.

First in Japan only, but brand name registrations give strong hints that at least Europe will follow.

This is a true, low power, go-anywhere bike in the good old Honda Trail fashion!
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UTC quote
Kevin Harrell wrote:
This is an interesting little bike. Well, for a cheap little Chinese bike. But, even at its price you would be about half way to getting something from a more reputable maker.

https://www.belmontebikes.com/products/boom-chopper-125cc-bobber-retro-chopper-bd125-2
Looks a lot like a 50 year old Honda Super 90.
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LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
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2018 Piaggio Medley 150
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UTC quote
Re: Honda CT125 Hunter Cup
RRider wrote:
Time for some good news

Honda will launch the 'scrambler' a.k.a CT' version of the new Cup.

First in Japan only, but brand name registrations give strong hints that at least Europe will follow.

This is a true, low power, go-anywhere bike in the good old Honda Trail fashion!
That's the bike the Postal service in Australia used for years, but at 110cc. Very reliable and they are quite popular to buy once the Australia Post sells them once they have reached a certain amount of kilometers. Over the past years I have had two myself.

Old model on the left and new model on the right which came into service a few years ago. The main difference I believe is the new model has fuel injection and is made in China. I have spoken to a few Posties and they prefer the older model.
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⬆️    About 2 years elapsed    ⬇️
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UTC quote
Resurrection!

Noticed a piece of news worth reviving this old thread.

Birmingham Small Arms Company is back!

Well, sort of. Owned by an Indian industrial gigant, the new BSAs are assembled in the UK! That's cool enough, right?
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UTC quote
Amish Engineering
A weird retro thing
Brembos on a leading link
https://www.janusmotorcycles.com/halcyon-450/
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2022 Honda PCX 150A, 2018 GTS300 [sold] & 2015 GTS300 Super [sold]
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UTC quote
Garthhh wrote:
Amish Engineering
A weird retro thing
Brembos on a leading link
https://www.janusmotorcycles.com/halcyon-450/
I like these bikes even though I'm not a motorcycle guy. I especially like their styling, light weight, and 4 year fender-to-fender warranty. The question is - How bulletproof is the "bulletproof" 229cc engine? Can I ride on the highway WOT at 70 mph for an hour or two, or is that just asking for trouble?
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Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
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UTC quote
RRider wrote:
I finally saw and was able to sit on the new Kawasaki W800 in a local bike show.

The bike looks gorgeous as always, now even the fenders are proper metal again.
I could swear that the handlebar is closer to a normal one rather than the 'beach bar' of the previous model - but can't be sure. I did not pay any attention to it = probably quite normal ... I just thought about this when looking the pic after the show.

It was interesting thought. I jumped into the W800 right from a Z900RS.
W being a 'true retro' and the Z more like a nod to the good old days.

Z900RS feels just... so very good with very nice ergonomics and the plush seat.

W800 feels like the bikes used to be: ergonomics are good, but you sit like on the top of the bike, not a bit 'in' as in the modern bikes - and in Z900RS.

I would love to take a spin with the new W sometime!
I owned a W650 for ten years. It was pretty, attracted attention and reminded me of a 1960s Bonneville I had ridden. But there was the rub. It performed like a 1960s Bonneville. I got tired of having to wring it's neck to outrun old ladies in Buicks off the line. The W800 has about the same horsepower and magazine comparison tests say a Royal Enfield 650 is as quick or quicker. For real comparison a Z650 has almost twenty-five more horses, 70 vs 45 and costs thousands less than a W800. If you want nostalgia, fine, but most riders want some poke. My 1983 750 Kawasaki is better in every way than the W650 was.
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UTC quote
theschuman wrote:
I like these bikes even though I'm not a motorcycle guy. I especially like their styling, light weight, and 4 year fender-to-fender warranty. The question is - How bulletproof is the "bulletproof" 229cc engine? Can I ride on the highway WOT at 70 mph for an hour or two, or is that just asking for trouble?
I like the light weight too,
It's a different kind of fun, when the bike & I are close to the same weight
My experience with 2 valve air-cooled carbed 250's is 70 requires a tail wind or a downhill, you can probably ride wide open all day, probably won't redline in 5th
I'm not sure how much fun a hardtail would be at 70, while a featherbed frame will flex & twist some, predictable


I rode a greeves with an earls fork, it was cool the way the front would rise under braking, no idea what it would be like on the street

These guys have been building these kind of simple bikes for about a decade & have not tried to exponentially expand production, probably sustainable long term
⬆️    About 9 months elapsed    ⬇️
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UTC quote
Worth digging this thread up:

It took some time, but here's finally a new 'basic motorcycle' by Honda. Based on the trusty, if somewhat boring (matter of taste, of course) 500cc twin family.

It even has low seat height and neutral ergos as bikes used to.

Allthought they are about 10 years late into the 'scrambler' market, not bad?
Honda CL500
Honda CL500
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, [s]Primavera[/s], S50, too many pushbikes
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UTC quote
Variation on the rebel, which has a crazy low seat.
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UTC quote
RRider wrote:
Worth digging this thread up:

It took some time, but here's finally a new 'basic motorcycle' by Honda. Based on the trusty, if somewhat boring (matter of taste, of course) 500cc twin family.

It even has low seat height and neutral ergos as bikes used to.

Allthought they are about 10 years late into the 'scrambler' market, not bad?
Not at all what I (and others, I'm pretty sure) had hoped for. Better than nothing, I guess.
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