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I didn't think that Honda could make a bike that was uglier than the Rebel but they did.
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amateriat wrote:
Not at all what I (and others, I'm pretty sure) had hoped for. Better than nothing, I guess.
I hear you...I'll guess this is as far 'retro' as Honda can squeeze out from a wide scale mass market product.
A bit older CL. The tail light looks similar
A bit older CL. The tail light looks similar
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Pipes on the left? Bizarre.
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Der Blechfahrer wrote:
Pipes on the left? Bizarre.
Yeah, I know.

Some folks just don't know how to do the Right thing Razz emoticon
Other classic 'lefties'...
Other classic 'lefties'...
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I like it! It's totally useless for my needs, but I do love Honda's quality and I have no objection to bad style. Why don't they offer a DCT transmission in these smaller (500cc and below) bikes? Too heavy? Not enough room? It seems some of these smaller displacement bikes with DCTs might be more appropriate for new riders…
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Bill Dog wrote:
I didn't think that Honda could make a bike that was uglier than the Rebel but they did.
I got a ton of flack on my YouTube channel for calling the Rebel ugly.

None of it came from people who hadn't spent money on one though so I feel pretty confident my call stands lol.

I haven't understood the "Scrambler" thing in its modern application. I could be biased because I'm based in a city, but 99% of customers with scramblers will never take them off-roading.

So what's the upside?

Having a heat source closer to me to make summer riding hotter?
Having something that could burn me closer to my most prized posessions?
Taking the weight of a factory exhaust system and putting it up high to raise my motorcycle's center of gravity, rather than lower it, to negatively impact my handling?

Not saying it's going to go around scalding and throwing riders off course, but.... it seems like devolution not evolution.

Then again... It's based on the Rebel platform so...
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A Scrambler with alloy wheels ? Yeah, they will last 10 minutes off road.

The whole platform looks ugly, clunky and disjointed.

The new Transalp hasn't won many fans either.
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I'm a fan of the new Transalp. The original was probably my favorite bike I've owned. I get why the new one isn't a V twin (kind of sad) but it looks right.
Consider how gorgeous the K0 Sl 350 was. I'd like to see Honda replicate that.
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To today's rider the high pipes on a scrambler might seem impractical but they worked in their day. About 60 years ago. My Dad raced in that time. There were numerous displacement classes but the open class was the one everybody waited to see. A pack of thundering Brit bikes roaring thru their straight pipes and kicking up rooster tails of dirt was a sight to behold. Like V-Twins masquerading as modern vehicles when there are multi cylinder bikes doing a much better job Scramblers evoke a time when street bikes went off road to compete.
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kz1000ST wrote:
To today's rider the high pipes on a scrambler might seem impractical but they worked in their day. About 60 years ago. My Dad raced in that time. There were numerous displacement classes but the open class was the one everybody waited to see. A pack of thundering Brit bikes roaring thru their straight pipes and kicking up rooster tails of dirt was a sight to behold. Like V-Twins masquerading as modern vehicles when there are multi cylinder bikes doing a much better job Scramblers evoke a time when street bikes went off road to compete.
Who was saying anything about scramblers in the 60s?
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adri wrote:
Who was saying anything about scramblers in the 60s?
My point was that since the trend towards retro tends to include some impractical inclusions, like high pipes on a Triumph Scrambler, it helps to know why they are there. Today's Triumph Scrambler looks like a 1960s Desert Sled. See "On Any Sunday" for reference.
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adri wrote:
I got a ton of flack on my YouTube channel for calling the Rebel ugly.

None of it came from people who hadn't spent money on one though so I feel pretty confident my call stands lol.

I haven't understood the "Scrambler" thing in its modern application. I could be biased because I'm based in a city, but 99% of customers with scramblers will never take them off-roading.

So what's the upside?

Having a heat source closer to me to make summer riding hotter?
Having something that could burn me closer to my most prized posessions?
Taking the weight of a factory exhaust system and putting it up high to raise my motorcycle's center of gravity, rather than lower it, to negatively impact my handling?

Not saying it's going to go around scalding and throwing riders off course, but.... it seems like devolution not evolution.

Then again... It's based on the Rebel platform so...
The high pipe in CL500 is obviously there just for the looks - cue the low header pipes.

What is so great about Scramblers is that many of them typically pack in excellent, neutral ergonomics - without being ridiculously tall like otherwise equally ergonomically often good 'ADV' bikes. Scramblers can even have a decent, comfy seat, as it is part of 'as bikes used to be' flavour.

In some Scramblers the high pipes do add a bit of off-road capability: the forementioned Triumph Scramber being one of those. It is very low, but high pipes make it slimmer down there.
Allthough low, my previous bike, Triumph Scrambler took me easily to the places like this.
Allthough low, my previous bike, Triumph Scrambler took me easily to the places like this.
With T120, this is about as off-road as I'll take it.
With T120, this is about as off-road as I'll take it.
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kz1000ST wrote:
My point was that since the trend towards retro tends to include some impractical inclusions, like high pipes on a Triumph Scrambler, it helps to know why they are there. Today's Triumph Scrambler looks like a 1960s Desert Sled. See "On Any Sunday" for reference.
Given the history of dual-purpose/dual-sport/scrambler/[insert-market-trend-friendly-shorthand-here] bikes, it's been pretty much "anything goes" for some time.

One of the bikes I almost bought back in my callow youth was a Honda SL350, which might not have been too bad a choice back then, but likely not the best when stuff like Yamaha DT250s and the like were roaming about. Check the pipes on that Honda: whenever I've seen one on the street, I've questioned just how many miles, if any, the thing has seen off-road.
What Might Have Been (and likely just as well wasn't): Honda SL350
What Might Have Been (and likely just as well wasn't): Honda SL350
If I Could Get One: Venti X-Rude 125. No idea if it's any good, but I grok the look.
If I Could Get One: Venti X-Rude 125. No idea if it's any good, but I grok the look.
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Now how about this: Italian design with the trusted Yamaha engine?

Fantic Caballero 700.
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RRider wrote:
Now how about this: Italian design with the trusted Yamaha engine?

Fantic Caballero 700.
Ooh, not bad at all!
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Has the reincarnated Jawa made it out of India yet?
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znomit wrote:
Has the reincarnated Jawa made it out of India yet?
I just... can't... not think it.

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Hooteeneee!
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And just what are Jawas wanting with Vespas?
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
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RRider wrote:
Worth digging this thread up:

It took some time, but here's finally a new 'basic motorcycle' by Honda. Based on the trusty, if somewhat boring (matter of taste, of course) 500cc twin family.

It even has low seat height and neutral ergos as bikes used to.

Allthought they are about 10 years late into the 'scrambler' market, not bad?
An update: just saw CL500 live for the first time yesterday. It was in a motorcycle show nearby. I'll have to say it looked better in real life - also, the size really was like 'it used to be', it was a very easily approachable bike.

Sitting on it felt natural, the ergos are like in the good old days.

My only minor complain is that the seat is definitely modern Honda: 'sporty' i.e. hard, not soft like they used to be....

I sat on the new Dax too...felt pretty much similar as the original

Some samples of the new Vespas were there too...jumping to a new GTS after many motorcycles reminded me how tall bike the GTS is! E.g. with Honda's new 750 Transalp ADV bike (slim waist, like these kind of bikes do have) I could get the balls of my both feet on the ground at the same time....with the GTS it was toes only without sliding in the seat
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I took a test ride on one of these last Friday , it's a Maeving RM1 , what a brilliant commuter electric motorcycle , in light of no apparent update to the Elettrica , which I have ridden for three years now , my days of riding Vespas are coming to an end , I've ordered a RM1 which I should have in April .
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Here's a link to Maeving's website for your perusal https://maeving.com/
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Why would you when this is just £500 more ?
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I'll never go back to I.C. , and I only need a commuting bike .
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Lack of horses for courses I guess.
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1977 Yamaha RD400
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Mikey007 wrote:
1977 Yamaha RD400
Two into one expansion chamber? Custom swingarm? I've owned several over the years but kept them OEM, plus the odd Water Buffalo, Titan, and DT-360.

I do miss the whoop and wail of a good 2-stroke on the pipe.
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Bill Dog wrote:
Why would you when this is just £500 more ?
The 650 is twice the weight & has gears/clutch
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So where's the problem ?

It's a real motorcycle after all.
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Bill Dog wrote:
So where's the problem ?

It's a real motorcycle after all.
"A Real Motorcycle" with a chain drive slinging grime everywhere
Bug not feature

The real minuses for the electric are nowhere to store a full face helmet, top speed of 45mph, which keeps you off the freeway [legally]
I guess the silly mock gas tank is the battery
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Get with the times. Chain lube doesn't fly off anymore.

150 miles at a time to boot.

It doesn't need a second battery to get you home either.
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Doodlebug10 wrote:
I took a test ride on one of these last Friday , it's a Maeving RM1...
I like the looks, not the range and top speed though.
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Faster than my Elettrica , twice the range , and handles a lot better , accelerates so much faster, I use the Elettrica for commuting and don't have any roads that have a speed limit of over 40 mph it ticks the same boxes as the Vespa but with more panache , I hate to say .
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Doodlebug10 wrote:
Faster than my Elettrica , twice the range , and handles a lot better , accelerates so much faster, I use the Elettrica for commuting and don't have any roads that have a speed limit of over 40 mph it ticks the same boxes as the Vespa but with more panache , I hate to say .
I totally get that. I would actually try one for in-city riding. Just the distances and top-speeds that I often ride call for more.
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Panache is an interesting word to apply to something which is basically an over priced electric bicycle.

Yes I know that I'm comparing apples with oranges but £6000 for something with no range and no power from a manufacturer that may not be around in a few years is for me a huge gamble.

It's also so inefficient that you have to carry a second battery around with you which you swap over if you want to get home.

I'll make an assumption that the people who find this product a viable alternative to a motorcycle haven't ridden one or more likely don't have a licence to.

I get that it's niche but what I don't get is exactly what you're paying for when my old Kawasaki KLV cost £2500 and gave me a 180 mile range at 80 mph.
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Bill Dog - when I was a young man my friend had a BSA Bantam D1 , I always loved to ride on that bike , it wasn't fast , it was unreliable , bit it oozed charm . When I test rode the RM1 those days on the Bantam came back to me , the RM1 has the look of a Bantam , it goes as fast as the D1 , its quicker off the mark , and less likely to break down , and for me the clincher is it's a whole lot less polluting ( I have a low carbon electricity supplier ). Talking about BSA ,you posted a picture of the new offering from said company I think if I bought one I'd be chancing my arm , as with Maeving , with the new start up from India ( same with Jawa) By the way you've misunderstood the twin battery workings of the RM1 ,you don't have to swap over the batteries they work in parallel . One other thing , I've had a full bike licence for over thirty years and have ridden many types of bikes and scooters but one constant is , I've never been able to find a public road in mainland Great Britain that I could ride at speeds over 70mph !
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The reborn brands of BSA and Jawa are underpinned by Mahindra, one of the largest Auto manufacturers in India so they always have a lot more financial support than Maeving ever will.

Even a budget Kymco Agility 125 at £3000 has more range and power than a Maeving and there's no inconvenience with regard to charging so I'm still a little bit lost as to why you'd want to pay more for a whole bunch less.

Actually that's not true. I think I do understand why but for me at this point the cons really outweigh the pros as battery powered motorcycles are far worse in performance and cost than the equivalent.

When they reach parity, maybe then.

You're also ignoring the amount of C02 that was generated during the making of the batteries so it's not as green as you're implying.

Hands up though, the reviews I've watched suggested that the batteries were swapped out when one was dead but I was wrong as they work together.

Also the twin battery version in 2023 is actually £7000 and not £6000.

I'm curious to know what the trade in price of the Sparky Vespa will be.
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Bill Dog wrote:
Get with the times. Chain lube doesn't fly off anymore.

150 miles at a time to boot.

It doesn't need a second battery to get you home either.
Ideally chainlube doesn't fly off, here in real life it does, no matter the barnd or how careful the application
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UTC quote
Apply it when the chain is warmed up, like soon after travel and then it sticks to the surface far better than when cold.

If you choose to use an inferior product then coat the rim with WD-40 Silicone Spray and it just wipes off.

Sorted.
@garthhh avatar
UTC

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2020 Liberty 150, 2020 MP3-500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 598
Location: Reno
 
Addicted
@garthhh avatar
2020 Liberty 150, 2020 MP3-500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 598
Location: Reno
UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
Apply it when the chain is warmed up, like soon after travel and then it sticks to the surface far better than when cold.

If you choose to use an inferior product then coat the rim with WD-40 Silicone Spray and it just wipes off.

Sorted.
And the tire & swingarm & the fender
The better the chainlube the more it sticks & the harder it is to remove
An ICE always pukes out some oil & has a nasty oil soaked air cleaner to deal with
The worst you get with an electric is some brake dust
SORTED
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