@dwight_schmidt avatar
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Hooked
1974 Rally (3), 1971 Rally 180, 1960 Li 125
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Location: Southern California, USA
 
Hooked
@dwight_schmidt avatar
1974 Rally (3), 1971 Rally 180, 1960 Li 125
Joined: UTC
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Location: Southern California, USA
UTC quote
One more, this bike I have is very stock and complete.
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@dwight_schmidt avatar
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Hooked
1974 Rally (3), 1971 Rally 180, 1960 Li 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 426
Location: Southern California, USA
 
Hooked
@dwight_schmidt avatar
1974 Rally (3), 1971 Rally 180, 1960 Li 125
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Location: Southern California, USA
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I can take more pics if needed when I get home.
@frogman_94 avatar
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Piaggio X9 500, 1974 Rally 200, 2005 Big Ruckus, 2006 Big Ruckus
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@frogman_94 avatar
Piaggio X9 500, 1974 Rally 200, 2005 Big Ruckus, 2006 Big Ruckus
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Here's another wiring diagram and a picture that might help.
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Dwight Schmidt wrote:
I can take more pics if needed when I get home.
I appreciate the photos you posted. I feel that everything so far is wired correctly by comparing it to the new schematic and photos you provided. I now need to take my time and wire the turn signals, headlight, speedometer, rear brake pedal and horn. The schematic you provided is very helpful but there are a couple things that still aren't very clear to me. Before I ask for help I was going to use google to see what comes up. If I'm still having trouble I will probably be asking for further assistance. Once again thank you for your time and consideration.
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Rectifier
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Rec.
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@dwight_schmidt avatar
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Hooked
1974 Rally (3), 1971 Rally 180, 1960 Li 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 426
Location: Southern California, USA
 
Hooked
@dwight_schmidt avatar
1974 Rally (3), 1971 Rally 180, 1960 Li 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 426
Location: Southern California, USA
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You're getting there. I appreciate that you are doing your due diligence to try and find answers on your own. I feel you learn something a bit deeper when you have to follow a path of thought to success. This community is always here to help, as you can tell, so just holler if you need help or any other pics I can provide. The color you choose is beautiful.
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Dwight Schmidt wrote:
You're getting there. I appreciate that you are doing your due diligence to try and find answers on your own. I feel you learn something a bit deeper when you have to follow a path of thought to success. This community is always here to help, as you can tell, so just holler if you need help or any other pics I can provide. The color you choose is beautiful.
Not only do I appreciate the help members on here have provided me, it's also comments like these that inspire me to want to keep trying. When I first looked at the mess I had in front of me, along with wiring schematics I immediately doubted that I would be able to do the work myself. I will keep moving along and hopefully I can listen to this scooter fire up soon.

Once again thank you and I appreciate your time responding to my questions.
⬆️    About 6 months elapsed    ⬇️
@matty_x avatar
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'74 Rally, '63 Allstate, '80 P125X, '09 Stella, '02 Chetak, '02 ET4, '07 GTS 250
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@matty_x avatar
'74 Rally, '63 Allstate, '80 P125X, '09 Stella, '02 Chetak, '02 ET4, '07 GTS 250
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Howdy folks.

I am the proud new owner of Pennyroyal's '74 Rally 200. Let me start by giving him a shout out. He's a real stand up fella!

I'm picking up where he left off. My first step in the process is to get the engine to start. First problem is that I'm not getting spark.

I'm a Femsa newb. There's a CEAB electronic ignition on it right now (see pic below), which I understand pretty much sucks. I'm considering the Ducati swap (like here http://www.scooterrescue.com/femsatronic-to-ducati-cdi.html), but I'd like to rule out other problems before part swapping.

Any troubleshooting tips and tricks would be much appreciated. And many thanks in advance!

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Matty, you may want to start a new thread - you will get more answers that way. Meanwhile, I am no help as I know nothing about the Femsa system. Good luck.
@v_oodoo avatar
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'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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new thread? OTH, all the back story & where it's been & where it's at now is all right here....

Hold off on junking that CEAB just yet. I had the same on my '76 and after a`few months my spark died intermittently at first and finally for good. I was ready to track down a real Femsatronic or try the conversion you mentioned(mixed reviews, btw) when Rob Hodge came to the rescue and advised me to try just replacing the 'coil' portion w/ a standard points coil.

It's been working for a couple of years ever since and you can not do this w/ a stock one piece Femsatronic. No guarantees, but it's worth trying.
after I found that it worked I made a simple bracket to mount the new coil
after I found that it worked I made a simple bracket to mount the new coil
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@matty_x avatar
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'74 Rally, '63 Allstate, '80 P125X, '09 Stella, '02 Chetak, '02 ET4, '07 GTS 250
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@matty_x avatar
'74 Rally, '63 Allstate, '80 P125X, '09 Stella, '02 Chetak, '02 ET4, '07 GTS 250
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I've been reading about that coil swap. Rob Hodge mentioned somewhere (I think at scootrally) that this swap seems to work 90% of the time.

I'm borrowing a buddy's P200 Ducati CDI just to see if that will give me a spark. We will see where that goes.

I appreciate the feedback that I should start a new thread, but I also like having all the history in one thread. Makes things easier for the next person IMO.
@matty_x avatar
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'74 Rally, '63 Allstate, '80 P125X, '09 Stella, '02 Chetak, '02 ET4, '07 GTS 250
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@matty_x avatar
'74 Rally, '63 Allstate, '80 P125X, '09 Stella, '02 Chetak, '02 ET4, '07 GTS 250
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So I pulled the coil off my Puch Maxi to see if I could get some spark. No dice.

Testing with a P200 CDI this weekend. If that doesn't work I'm pulling the flywheel and getting cozy with a multimeter.
@mjrally avatar
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73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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matty_x wrote:
So I pulled the coil off my Puch Maxi to see if I could get some spark. No dice.

Testing with a P200 CDI this weekend. If that doesn't work I'm pulling the flywheel and getting cozy with a multimeter.
Unless you get an adapter, a P200 Ducati CDI won't work with your Femsatronic setup. I've used this one for years but its shipping from the UK which could take a while.

https://www.beedspeed.com/electronic-ignition-coil-converter-rally-ducati-p-10372.html?osCsid=fvtc3bo7ogav52qq3nn0lie5e6

See if you can borrow a Femsa unit or just buy a replacement that you can keep on a shelf once you've figured out your problem.
@matty_x avatar
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'74 Rally, '63 Allstate, '80 P125X, '09 Stella, '02 Chetak, '02 ET4, '07 GTS 250
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'74 Rally, '63 Allstate, '80 P125X, '09 Stella, '02 Chetak, '02 ET4, '07 GTS 250
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UTC quote
Appreciate the feedback!

I've seen that Beedspeed CDI mentioned in some of the other threads I've been studying. Some folks seem to think it is based on this design, or at least similar: http://www.scooterrescue.com/femsatronic-to-ducati-cdi.html.

That wiring schematic is pretty simple and I'd like to think I'm handy enough with a soldering iron to cobble it together. The wiring seems pretty straightforward as well.

As I understand from reading elsewhere, the order of trial and error is to connect the P200 CDI using the modified wiring suggested in the URL I pasted above. If that doesn't work, then solder up the circuit provided and try that way.

This was my plan for weekend troubleshooting before pulling the flywheel and investigating the stator. If I understand your post correctly, this may be a fool's errand. What are your thoughts?

Many thanks again!
@matty_x avatar
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'74 Rally, '63 Allstate, '80 P125X, '09 Stella, '02 Chetak, '02 ET4, '07 GTS 250
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@matty_x avatar
'74 Rally, '63 Allstate, '80 P125X, '09 Stella, '02 Chetak, '02 ET4, '07 GTS 250
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UTC quote
Sputtering!
So I spent some time in the garage troubleshooting.

First, I disconnected everything from the junction box because my hunch is that it is wired incorrectly.

Then I tested for spark. I had to use a drill to spin the crank since I didn't have a kickstart lever. Bam! Spark.

Next step was to try to get the motor running. Couldn't get it to turn over with he drill because the compression was too great so I pulled the kickstart lever off my P and tried with that. It sputtered once or twice but it wouldn't run.

Tried again with the drill and there was no spark again. Decided to pull the flywheel and test resistance values. Got the following, which seem OK.

Red to Gnd: 153
Blu to blk: 267
Grn to blk: 267
Blk to gnd: 0.6

Checked gap between crank and pickup. .25mm. Good.

Ordered a kickstart lever which arrived yesterday. Attached it and kicked it and now I have spark. Hooked up a fuel line and tried to start it and I was able to get it to sputter and runs briefly at high RPMs but no idle.

Not sure if it's timing, carb, or something else... But progress that seemed worth reporting. Thanks everyone for your input so far.
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@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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UTC quote
Quote:
I was able to get it to sputter and runs briefly at high RPMs but no idle.
So were you able to get the original ignition working, no new CDI or other coil?
I'd guess your timing is good enough for now, but your carb needs attention. Sounds like something's clogged up in the idle circuit. If you've never done a serious clean & rebuild, now's your chance to learn. Pretty easy really, here's a good how to: http://www.scootermercato.com/Garage/Tech-Tips/Carb-Rebuild_2

It's a good idea to check for adequate flow from the gas tank while you have the carb out and it's convenient. A clogged tank filter or breather in the cap, or a dicey fuel tap can drive you nuts as you move forward.

How about some fresh pics? I'd love me some more Rally photos
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