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Well....

Kind of explains my current issues. Something is off with the ecu by the looks of things.

Basically, I feel sluggish at lower speeds now and then at 50mph boom.everything picks back up again. Surprised to see my max power is so low in the Rev range too. My bike doesn't seem to be revving correctly!

Take a look... May have drawn the wrong conclusions. Have replaced my belt and rollers just before this run. Haven't had time to see if I'm still hitting my rev limiter too soon.... But something tells me my ecu is not looking after my revs right at all.

No slippage in belt or clutch and my rollers had minor flat spots. Belt was damaged but apparently looked new wear wise.

As you can see it's running a bit rich in the mid range... Would explain the bogged down feel, strange as this is a very recent thing.

Have a cheeky gander! (got wet on the ride home in my top pocket)
Power bands...
Power bands...
Lookin a bit lean over at the old top end there.
Lookin a bit lean over at the old top end there.
9.1hp... Lost a whole horse and a half somewhere...
9.1hp... Lost a whole horse and a half somewhere...
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A big thank you to Jimc for the rev limiter suggestion, my mechanic was reluctant and I can now conform after insisting he do the belt and rollers it seems that I no longer get any hint of ny rev limiter kicking in, got it up to 75 downhill just to confirm.

Bow just to crack this loss of midrange power.... Need a diagnostic tool, shame this mechanic didn't have the gear to actually adjust the cdi, but I know bot many places do without being a Vespa dealer themselves. Might take a good long ride to readspeed. My thoughts turn to the update for my model back in 2011-12 which makes me wonder was fueling an issue? My bike was bought in the start of 2011 rode a 1,000 miles (cheers for breaking it in who ever you are!) and then put it in there garage and forgot about it untill I bought it this year. I probably didn't receive that update!
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Right, going to try some diagnostics tomorrow. Tried today but they only had the machine for the cars on them, they'll have something that may work for the Vespa tomorrow. For any of you who want to know, yes the dyno plug fits into a fiat adapter! Wondering of you have to have a Vespa specific machine now...

Any how, in the mean time he's asked me to ask you guys if there's any safety features in the f.i engines that could restrict my rpm's lower down? Literally as soon as i hit 50mph BOOM, takes the same amout of time getting to 30-40mph as it does to go from 50-60mph... Which is not right at all.

Had the vacuum lines checked and all seems good, might change them anyway and see if that helps but I'm sure the vacuum system is used throughout the rev range, so wouldn't make much sense as to why it fixes itself at 50mph. Not liking getting left behind at the lights too, well ots not that bad but I can no longer have that jump im used too.

Tried taking my battery out and then reinstalling and letting the bike idle to try and reset the ecu, no change. Maybe I didn't let the bike idle long enough.

Missing pulling the throttle and hearing my pm tuning exhaust shout, now its just a slow surge ahahagdj

Any thoughts appreciated!
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Ahh, so bo one has diagnostics for a Vespa within an hours each way distance... And the places that fat want ab hours labour for the privilege!

Had a brain wave though today. I know my old pm tuning header worked a hoke through the wire cover abf exposed the inner's and after fixing the header pipe I tapes up the gap as the wires inside were not touched.

Going to have a look again once ny bike has cooled off but what are the symptoms for a non functioning o2 sensor? I unplugged it and had a ride and there was zero difference in the bike performance, still running wayy to rich and still struggling to rev higher than 4000. Would make sense to me of the engine puts itself in an over rich state if the ecu does not get an o2 reading and would compensate?

Also does the o2 sensor no longer function at a certain rpm anyway? No indication lights but thinking if only one of two wires have broken my bike will still see it as plugged in.

Sorry for this long string of thoughts, I'm guessing this isn't a common issue since no one has replied!

Getting fed up, tempted to ditch it for a px.
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seems like a similar fault to the one i had on my GTV. check the HT lead, i found the insulation on mine cracked/split right through to the core. worth checking.
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Literally standing next to my bike so will have a look! O2 sensor foes has a broken outa case but the wires look fine...

Inckling is telling me I should also try abd swap the spark plug. Evn though its only a got changed a few months ago. Never know!
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Running rich may be because the ECU thinks the engine is cold due to a faulty temperature sensor. This can be removed or checked in situ by measuring the resistance cold and hot, but its more likely to be a connection problem.
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Had a look at the ht lead, looks fairly new with plenty of flew with no cracking.

And roadster, do I basically pull out the temp system and see how the bike runs? If so ill get up a few diagrams and give it a go.


If I don't find the issue by next weekend I'm riding down to Dudley (hour each way) to have a scan. Amazingly its the closest dealer, I know readspeed is closer but when I phoned up the told me I'm talking about roller tuning, and when I asked if there could be anything electrical wrong they replied by saying they don't release that kind of info to the general public... So yeah think I am going to go to qc! Apparently there is a few remaps available for my bike if it was made in 2011 and never saw a dealer again... Which it has.. So may go down anyway.
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By the way, didn't realise you can't see the x axis properly. The x axis is speed on the air fuel chart. As you can see at 20mph I go rich and at exactly 50mph I lean right out again.

Just for those who can't make it out!
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Well I think this one is cracked for the time being, diagnosis showed a h3101 error (if I remember rightly) meaning that my o2 sensor has finally died. Managed to get it reading again and then remapped the ecu to the newest specs and then hey presto! The Vespa seems to be back in business.

Annoyingly we found a new issue... The bike came to me from the dealer with the wrong hub oil! Was as viscous as engine oil for god sake. I've been running it for well over 6,000 miles. Also the rev limiter seems to be coming back to soon. Thinking maybe the oil is allowing too much heat into the belt area causing my belt to fowl. Would explain the damage that was on thee previous belt.

Going to change the hub oil tomorrow and then call the shop that replaced the belt for a deal since I did ask them to change the hub oil at the same time... But they didn't know that you even could on a Vespa... So therefore didn't. Id be annoyed if the wrong oil type is fowling the belt, god knows what else it could do.

Anyhow a new o2 sensor is needed and I think I may finally give up with the pm pipe too. After having that looked at its safe to say that its just always going to be a problem, not going to go much more into that since it may involve trading standards.

-sigh- nearly fixed folks!
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Rightio, drained the oil the best I could and replaced with gpl 4 spec oil. To meet the required max (slightly over the second notch) I only used just shy of 200cc, would anyone think it would be a good idea to refrain the oil and then refill one morr time to try and get the remaining 50cc of wrong oil out?
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theknights20 wrote:
would anyone think it would be a good idea to redrain the oil and then refill one more time to try and get the remaining 50cc of wrong oil out?
Oil is cheap. It's gonna bug you if you don't.
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Its bugging me already! Will have to wait until after work tomorrow, its rab for 1000's of miles with the wrong stuff, I'm sure another day with a fraction of it in there wont cause any more damage!
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Rightyrightieo, the next day I used up a lot of hub oil re draining and then leaving the reservoir nut out whilst feeding in more oil to give it a good old flush. You guys would not believe the amount of debris/sediment/water p*ss sh*t the and god only knows what that came out. So come guys guys, I know something is toast but as you all know I can not myself take a look! Money is slowly trickling in now but am paying off my debts so a dealer would have to wait.

She is still runs absolutely fine, a part from yesterday when she admitted a horrible dragging noose from the clutch /variator assembly when the clutch was engaged. Switching off and on again did resolve the issue.

Ahh the luck we have, put a smile on my face when I had to literally kickstart the gts yesterday too. I do literally mean I kicked the thing into life whilst holding the starter. Expecting dodgy battery installation by yours truely;)

Anyhow, starting to understand why my s cost so little for how many miles it had done. Looking like that oil has played a part on all of my issues with this bike of it has indeed caused some serious damage.

I obviously don't know the specs of the old oil, but it was tanned and was probably around a 10-20w seemed like someone had accidently used the engine oil in the hub on first service. Seeing has the correct stuff is 80w 90, that's quite a difference! I do have said oil stashed in a bottle, would be interesting to send it back to the original dealer.
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I can tell you one thing, you are WAY overthinking this
Start from step one, you went straight to a dyno which tells you nothing really.
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Well I think a new o2 sensor is in order since I did show an error code relating to a air fuel error, I know that means it could be a few things but I do also know there's a hole in the outa casing that may have led to water getting in and trickling down killing part of the cable, so the fix is probably going to be that for the rich running issues.

But for the potential damage to the gear hub has left me thinking what is next!

I do over think

I guess the dyno did push me to get a diagnostic, which luckily actually came up with something, but i also guess that hole should of been a teller, even with no warning lights!
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theknights20 wrote:
To meet the required max (slightly over the second notch) I only used just shy of 200cc,
On my LX150ie, I changed my hub oil and put in around 100cc's only since that was what was in my manual (min 1st line on dipstick and max in between 1st and 2nd line on dipstick). What does your S125 manual say? just curious.
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theknights20 wrote:
Well I think a new o2 sensor is in order since I did show an error code relating to a air fuel error, I know that means it could be a few things but I do also know there's a hole in the outa casing that may have led to water getting in and trickling down killing part of the cable, so the fix is probably going to be that for the rich running issues.

But for the potential damage to the gear hub has left me thinking what is next!

I do over think

I guess the dyno did push me to get a diagnostic, which luckily actually came up with something, but i also guess that hole should of been a teller, even with no warning lights!
You can throw parts at or test it, it's up to you. Testing and then replacing is a LOT cheaper.

If there is an error code, go to the shop manual find your code and do the required testing listed for the code. Tests MUST be done in order from 1 to what ever, while skipping no steps.
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Is there a way to test the o2 sensor? I don't own a multimeter but it will sure be cheaper.

Honestly a little more worried about the gearing, I was planning on the 190 kit but I do not want to totally compromise the rear end by putting more power through it.

It does seem to run well, if anything my bike is a little quick for the model top end wise so maybe no damage has been caused. Still will niggle at me that they may as well of been gravy in there. I'll post a pic of what came out tomorrow, by far from healthy.

Cheers for the input by the way
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Busy week, first night I've finished work in time so there was some light about.

As you can see... Bot healthy. You cabt see it but there was also some separation of about 2-3 different density. Also could see some usual whitening at the surface.

Note how much debris is in there!
This is just nasty...
This is just nasty...
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Process of elimination time.

Removed the pm tuning exhaust and swapped to stock.

Checked the colour of the o2 seonsor, pitch black with carbon, and also checked the engine oil strainer with orange debris present, possible seal perhaps?

Also with the quieter exhaust I can now here a noise coming from the transmission area which ove never heard before. Kinda like a high pitch wheer at a certain point when revs are coming down. Have a video of this of it helps!

Tested the function of the o2 sensor and it is picking up readings so I'm thinking its functioning fine, even though a little chewed up.

Is there a way to get videos on here?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Pput it on YouTube
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Had a brainwave,

With running my quieter stock exhaust I'm starting to speculate that I have a blown copper gasket at the head of the pipe. I'm guessing running for a while would of done damage to the exhaust valve.

Also the bloody bushing was void on the pm tuning plate which caused unstopable blowing at the slip joint. I am now aware that this could of fouled the exhaust valve.

Anyone have any experience with what kind of running they're bike was doing with a knackard exhaust valve?

I really do apologies for how long this has been going.

Writing my ideas down does seem to help and ots always a bonus when I get some helpful feedback!

I keep hearing a knock coming from engine that cones and goes too, wishing I took the pipe off sooner and just had a listen.

Coming to the conclusion that the transmission may have survived the wrong oil.

Also I think the error code may have been produced when, thinking back a while now, I accidently left my o2 sensor unplugged which obviously gave me the warning light. I'm guessing this would of then been logged as an error.

Ahh, feeling pretty dumb with the error code now
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