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If Piaggio made a 2016/new BV 500 would you buy instead of an MP3?. I have owned alot of bikes and a few scooters. I agree the MP3 has many safety features unavailable on a two wheel type scooter. However for just one-on-one ownership for an every day use scooter, would you still have bought the MP3 -IF- safety were not part of the main issue? I like the MP3 for what it is and the styling. The BV-350 is a fast likable scooter and it is lighter but the styling is not to my liking. A BV 500 (having the newer master 500cc engine) would be a rocket. After being on two wheels for over 45 yrs I get mixed feelings. How about you?.
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Having owned both, I will say both scooters are great in their own ways. The BV 500 is a rocket, yes. I had it up to 100mph (once), and, ahem, slightly lower many times. It never suffered the oil loss that the MP3 is known for, and mine does suffer from, when riding extended periods too fast. If I keep my MP3 500 up around 80 mph I have to add a couple of ounces of oil every ~400-500 miles, and clean the air filter more often.

The MP3 is much more planted, and stable for long rides. I have ridden my MP3 up to 650 miles in a day and was only a little sore and tired. The BV requires more attention to keep it going, being more twitchy.

Though I have only test-ridden the BV 350, I would probably go for that one before getting a new BV 500, were that one available. Unless all the BV 350 goodness came with the 500cc oomph.
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Re: BV 500 or MP3?
kawzak wrote:
If Piaggio made a 2016/new BV 500 would you buy instead of an MP3?.
No
kawzak wrote:
you still have bought the MP3 -IF- safety were not part of the main issue?
yes
kawzak wrote:
get mixed feelings. How about you?.
no
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Re: BV 500 or MP3?
old as dirt wrote:
kawzak wrote:
If Piaggio made a 2016/new BV 500 would you buy instead of an MP3?.
No
kawzak wrote:
you still have bought the MP3 -IF- safety were not part of the main issue?
yes
kawzak wrote:
get mixed feelings. How about you?.
no
+1
I get wordy sometimes...
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I owned an MP3 for several years. I concluded any additional margin of safety over a 2 wheeled scooter was not large. Theoretically the two front wheels give you more traction in the curves but I was never in a situation where I felt it made a difference. The tilt lock was convenient for parking the bike and moving it around the garage, but that provided no particular safety advantage. If anything the possibility of unlatching by accident or when not expected could be considered a safety risk. I replaced my MP3 with a BV 350 which has great suspension, great brakes, and plenty of power for it's weight (which is substantially less than an MP3). I could have bought a new, old stock BV500 at the time, but I liked the lighter weight and favorable power to weight ratio of the BV350. Nearly 3 years later I have not had any reason to think I made a poor choice.
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Even though I only owned a BV350 for a short time before I bought the MP3 400, my opinion of both is similar to Sully's and not Dooglas's.

Make no mistake though, they are both awesome in their own right.

Even though we probably don't buy them to be highway cruisers, the MP3 is more planted. It does give you more confidence on slippery roads, crappy roads and on those metal bridges that the roadway resembles a cheese grater.
You can cruise all day on the MP3 and not feel as tired as you will on the BV.

If you don't like the 350's styling, you probably won't like a 500 if one were offered. I don't see any potential 500 differing much from the 350's styling since the current 350 just came out in 2013.[/b]
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Thanks for all the replies. Interesting thoughts/opinions. I have down sized alot from several motorcycles, etc. I need to learn to live with only one-regardless that I could still have several types/styles/size. getting too old and having health issues. I want to live out my time with just ONE quality two or three wheel machine. I don't have the energy to maintain/clean/wax more than my wifes SUV, my Pickup and (1) scooter.Plus financially the insurance/batteries/maint/etc. adds up. I do remember when I was 15 I had a 90cc dual sport bike. My only transportation for school, work whatever for several years. After a few accidents, and 6 pistons later I had 73,000 miles when I sold it. it was small,slow, but I loved it and have fond memories-one machine I grew up with. Then years later I just could not have enough bikes. It just is not the same when you have to choose what you are going to ride that day. I guess I sound crazy but just how I feel now. (Yes I have taken my meds today....).
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Hey Old as dirt, elaborate on your choices. I am interested to here why you feel as strong as you do about this.Thanks
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kawzak wrote:
Hey Old as dirt, elaborate on your choices. I am interested to here why you feel as strong as you do about this.Thanks
in my 48+ years of racing and riding the MP3 makes me smile a lot more than most other M/C's I have rode.

its different, and I like being a bit different.

my older sister asked why I bought a moto guzzi norge a sport touring type.
she said I could have bought her BMW .
My older brother has nothing but BMW's for the last 20 years.
my younger brother works on HD's, Buells which I also have owned.

I told my sister its because its NOT a BMW. She laughed and said I get it.
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Have an MP3 500 and a BV350, Liked the MP3 500 till I bought the BV350.
BV350 takes off faster, handles better, rides better and stops faster.
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Wow what a tough choice to make. My opinion is close to sitting on the fence. MP3 does take more service work, and heavy. Never owning a BV, but other two wheel bikes, would tend to lean to a two wheeler with choice. Especially for min. service needed. You have to balance at times, on either bike ! Two wheeler might be easier to pick back up in worse case. Have had my mp3 front seem to slide slightly, and back real really slide one time. City drive 35 mph likely, and unseen sand I guess in a turn. MP3 plus for me was the double braking power of two front wheels.
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G03 wrote:
Wow what a tough choice to make. My opinion is close to sitting on the fence. MP3 does take more service work, and heavy. Never owning a BV, but other two wheel bikes, would tend to lean to a two wheeler with choice. Especially for min. service needed. You have to balance at times, on either bike ! Two wheeler might be easier to pick back up in worse case. Have had my mp3 front seem to slide slightly, and back real really slide one time. City drive 35 mph likely, and unseen sand I guess in a turn. MP3 plus for me was the double braking power of two front wheels.
My thoughts exactly and I settled on the MP3. It's been rock steady. I bet your assumption about unseen sand is correct, especially if you were riding in your shore area at the time. Nothing has made me slip or slide just yet. Take comfort in the fact that you have two wheels upfront and both have to lose grip before you get in trouble. The great traction has been a big plus for me, even if nothing more than a confidence builder.

I also see from your avatar that you have several gizmos mounted on the MP3. Probably wouldn't have that much space on the BV for all that.

(I know you're not the OP, I'm just sayin')
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kawzak wrote:
... I have down sized alot from several motorcycles, etc. I need to learn to live with only one-regardless that I could still have several types/styles/size. getting too old and having health issues. I want to live out my time with just ONE quality two or three wheel machine.
The MP3 is like a Vespa. If you want one, you have to put up with Piaggio's entertaining way of conducting business in the United States. If you decide to go back to a two wheeled scooter, and aren't a Vespa person, there are a lot of better options than pretty much everything Piaggio offers, in terms of quality and reliability. Yamaha has the T-Max and Majesty, Honda the Forza, BMW and Suzuki their big scooters, and even a Kymco is going to be more reliable and perform better than the BV500. If you can only have one, get one that's going to run all the time, from a company with a good dealer network in the United States. All the scooters have owner forums. The reason most of them aren't as active as this one is that their owners don't have to get online to look for parts and repair advice all the time.
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I have had many motorcycles, some a lot more reliable than others. I also have owned a Kymco 250 People. It was a great scooter. My wife has a Piaggio Fly 150. No problems with it. I do all my own work, so no matter. I do like the 350 size engine in th BV. The body is about the same size as most 250 scooters. I don't want a Kymco 500-too big/heavy. So- I am leaning towards the Piaggio BV 350.
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Motovista wrote:
kawzak wrote:
... I have down sized alot from several motorcycles, etc. I need to learn to live with only one-regardless that I could still have several types/styles/size. getting too old and having health issues. I want to live out my time with just ONE quality two or three wheel machine.
The MP3 is like a Vespa. If you want one, you have to put up with Piaggio's entertaining way of conducting business in the United States. If you decide to go back to a two wheeled scooter, and aren't a Vespa person, there are a lot of better options than pretty much everything Piaggio offers, in terms of quality and reliability. Yamaha has the T-Max and Majesty, Honda the Forza, BMW and Suzuki their big scooters, and even a Kymco is going to be more reliable and perform better than the BV500. If you can only have one, get one that's going to run all the time, from a company with a good dealer network in the United States. All the scooters have owner forums. The reason most of them aren't as active as this one is that their owners don't have to get online to look for parts and repair advice all the time.
"Majesty, Honda the Forza, BMW and Suzuki their big scooters, and even a Kymco"
Can't compare any of these to the BV350 in handling or power to weight ratio.

And I would say this forum is more active for many reasons, one and most prominent is the way it is run. And there are lots more Piaggio products out there in terms of scooters then the others in the US for sure.
And people who buy this product are most likely to do there own work so have more questions to ask.

Oh, and if I haven't chimed in on BV350 or MP3 500, BV 350 hands down and I own both.
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Motovista wrote:
All the scooters have owner forums. The reason most of them aren't as active as this one is that their owners don't have to get online to look for parts and repair advice all the time.
Have a small burr under our saddle, do we?
I've owned Hondas, Yamahas, Suzukis, Urals, Piaggios, etc. I think it is safe to say that the main reason that this site sees so much activity is that Vespa owners tend to be enthusiastic about the marque - though hats off to Jess and the moderators for making MV work as well as it does. Certainly not true of some other sites.
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[quote="WEB-Tech"][quote="Motovista"]
kawzak wrote:
"Majesty, Honda the Forza, BMW and Suzuki their big scooters, and even a Kymco"
Can't compare any of these to the BV350 in handling or power to weight ratio.

And I would say this forum is more active for many reasons, one and most prominent is the way it is run. And there are lots more Piaggio products out there in terms of scooters then the others in the US for sure.
And people who buy this product are most likely to do there own work so have more questions to ask.

Oh, and if I haven't chimed in on BV350 or MP3 500, BV 350 hands down and I own both.
The Kymco People 300GTi and Downtown 300i are both around 370 lbs and 30 HP, so, they're pretty close to the BV350 in performance. I haven't ridden either, but, owned a People 250S, currently own a BV250 and have ridden the BV350. The People 250S was a good scoot, very comparable to the BV250. I've read nothing but good on the fuel injected 300's from Kymco. Having owned several Piaggio group bikes (Vespa, Piaggio, and a few Moto Guzzis), I've bee disappointed by the response time on parts, and can say with certainty that the Kymco scooters are as good if not better quality than anything from Piaggio.

By far, my favorite scooter though is my GTS250ie. I like the metal body and styling, plus, it has a better suspension than either of of the other 250cc scoots that I've had.
⚠️ Last edited by jas67 on UTC; edited 2 times
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[quote="jas67"][quote="WEB-Tech"]
Motovista wrote:
kawzak wrote:
"Majesty, Honda the Forza, BMW and Suzuki their big scooters, and even a Kymco"
Can't compare any of these to the BV350 in handling or power to weight ratio.

And I would say this forum is more active for many reasons, one and most prominent is the way it is run. And there are lots more Piaggio products out there in terms of scooters then the others in the US for sure.
And people who buy this product are most likely to do there own work so have more questions to ask.

Oh, and if I haven't chimed in on BV350 or MP3 500, BV 350 hands down and I own both.
The Kymco People 300GTi and Downtown 300i are both around 370 lbs and 30 HP, so, they're pretty close to the BV350 in performance. I haven't ridden either, but, owned a People 250S, currently own a BV250 and have ridden the BV350. The People 250S was a good scoot, very comparable to the BV250. I've read nothing but good on the fuel injected 300's from Kymco. Having owned several Piaggio group bikes (Vespa, Piaggio, and a few Moto Guzzis), I've bee disappointed by the response time on parts, and can say with certainty that the Kymco scooters are as good if not better quality than anything from Piaggio.

By far, my favorite scooter though is my GTS200ie. I like the metal body and styling, plus, it has a better suspension than either of of the other 250cc scoots that I've had.
nice thing about the bv 250 over the guts 200 on the suspension is it has regular style forks that can be worked on to provide ALOT better front handling.

Also almost every rear shock that comes stock on scooters are mediocre at best.

you should really upgrade the rear suspension as well. once you do that to your BV 250 it will by far out handle the GTS.
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[quote="old as dirt"][quote="jas67"]
WEB-Tech wrote:
nice thing about the bv 250 over the guts 200 on the suspension is it has regular style forks that can be worked on to provide ALOT better front handling.

Also almost every rear shock that comes stock on scooters are mediocre at best.

you should really upgrade the rear suspension as well. once you do that to your BV 250 it will by far out handle the GTS.
Correction to my above post, I meant GTS250 not GTS200.

Anyway, yes, I'm sure upgraded rear shocks would help, but, my wife prefers the Vespa to the BV and I prefer motorcycles to scooters (sorry, everyone here, I still enjoy our Vespa). The BV was bought just to try and then flip, as I got a good deal.

Just another note on the BV350. I was just over at the dealer picking up an oil filter, and took another gander at the BV350. For some reason, I remember the under-seat storage being limited; and being disappointed by that. I was remembering wrong. The BV350 looks to have a lot more under seat storage the an the BV250 it replaced. They made the body wider under the seat, allowing for a lot more storage.

I rode the BV350 when we bought my wife's GTS. I preferred it, in both handling, and of course power to the GTS. The GTS's under seat storage is better than the BV250, but, the BV350 under seat storage beats it.

The MP3 500 under seat storage beats them all, but, it is a heavy beast. If I were buying a scooter for myself today, it'd likely be the BV350.
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How well does either hold their value. Not that I would sell anything unless it's several yrs down the road. Just curious.
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kawzak wrote:
How well does either hold their value. Not that I would sell anything unless it's several yrs down the road. Just curious.
The Vespas hold their value far better than the other Piaggio products. There is not a lot of Piaggio brand recognition in the US. The MP3s took a big drop in resale due to Piaggio clearing out the unsold stock from their warehouse at fire sale prices. For similar reasons, the BVs have not enjoyed particularly strong resale either.
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[quote="Dooglas"]Theoretically the two front wheels give you more traction in the curves but I was never in a situation where I felt it made a difference. The tilt lock was convenient for parking the bike and moving it around the garage, but that provided no particular safety advantage. If anything the possibility of unlatching by accident or when not expected could be considered a safety risk.

My opinion exactly. When I have hinted at this , in the past, the replys were from the :cool aid drinkers" and tended to make me feel retarded. I am considering trading my '09' for something that feels like it wants to stay under me...

Jim
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[quote="bumblebee"]
Dooglas wrote:
Theoretically the two front wheels give you more traction in the curves but I was never in a situation where I felt it made a difference. The tilt lock was convenient for parking the bike and moving it around the garage, but that provided no particular safety advantage. If anything the possibility of unlatching by accident or when not expected could be considered a safety risk.

My opinion exactly. When I have hinted at this , in the past, the replys were from the :cool aid drinkers" and tended to make me feel retarded. I am considering trading my '09' for something that feels like it wants to stay under me...

Jim
I've hit sand in a corner before, I know two front wheels saved me, the front stayed gripping, while the rear slid a little. If the front had slid, I would have gone down.
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I too, have felt the rear slide just a bit and thought it "odd" that I never felt the front slide at all. If nothing else, the configuration gives me confidence and I can aggressively corner and fling the MP3 around like no other bike, and I've owned over a dozen in the past 15 years.
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old as dirt wrote:
its different, and I like being a bit different.

my older sister asked why I bought a moto guzzi norge a sport touring type.
she said I could have bought her BMW .
My older brother has nothing but BMW's for the last 20 years.
my younger brother works on HD's, Buells which I also have owned.

I told my sister its because its NOT a BMW. She laughed and said I get it.
That made me smile. I'm probably as old as you, and I can recall a day when one would buy a BMW just to be different!
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UTC quote
[quote="bumblebee"]
Dooglas wrote:
Theoretically the two front wheels give you more traction in the curves but I was never in a situation where I felt it made a difference. The tilt lock was convenient for parking the bike and moving it around the garage, but that provided no particular safety advantage. If anything the possibility of unlatching by accident or when not expected could be considered a safety risk.

My opinion exactly. When I have hinted at this , in the past, the replys were from the :cool aid drinkers" and tended to make me feel retarded. I am considering trading my '09' for something that feels like it wants to stay under me...

Jim
Does this mean that if I like my MP3 and feel safe on it that I am wrong and have just been duped by Piaggio's marketing hype? Ironically, the kickstand on any two wheeled bike is probably more likely to get you in trouble than the tilt-lock on an MP3. Once you understand how it works, specifically that it can't be disengaged when the bike's power is off, there won't be any issues.
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cummingsjc wrote:
bumblebee wrote:
Dooglas wrote:
Theoretically the two front wheels give you more traction in the curves but I was never in a situation where I felt it made a difference. The tilt lock was convenient for parking the bike and moving it around the garage, but that provided no particular safety advantage. If anything the possibility of unlatching by accident or when not expected could be considered a safety risk.
My opinion exactly. When I have hinted at this , in the past, the replys were from the :cool aid drinkers" and tended to make me feel retarded. I am considering trading my '09' for something that feels like it wants to stay under me...
Jim
Does this mean that if I like my MP3 and feel safe on it that I am wrong and have just been duped by Piaggio's marketing hype? Ironically, the kickstand on any two wheeled bike is probably more likely to get you in trouble than the tilt-lock on an MP3. Once you understand how it works, specifically that it can't be disengaged when the bike's power is off, there won't be any issues.
Well, the first thing that it means is that it is the opinions of 2 different MP3 owners - and Jim's are somewhat different than mine. Your experiences and opinions are your own as well. Regarding the tilt-lock, however, I sharply disagree with your statement. Having owned an MP3 for nearly 3 years, I certainly know how the tilt-lock works. I also know that it can lock in a tilted position and cause the bike to swerve to one side when it releases as you start out. Hardly a fatal flaw but one that a rider has to remain alert to. And I presume you have read the posts of other riders who have had the tilt-lock accidently unlatch while refueling and fall over next to the pump or a similar event in the driveway. Again, something that requires some care.
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UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
cummingsjc wrote:
bumblebee wrote:
Dooglas wrote:
Theoretically the two front wheels give you more traction in the curves but I was never in a situation where I felt it made a difference. The tilt lock was convenient for parking the bike and moving it around the garage, but that provided no particular safety advantage. If anything the possibility of unlatching by accident or when not expected could be considered a safety risk.
My opinion exactly. When I have hinted at this , in the past, the replys were from the :cool aid drinkers" and tended to make me feel retarded. I am considering trading my '09' for something that feels like it wants to stay under me...
Jim
Does this mean that if I like my MP3 and feel safe on it that I am wrong and have just been duped by Piaggio's marketing hype? Ironically, the kickstand on any two wheeled bike is probably more likely to get you in trouble than the tilt-lock on an MP3. Once you understand how it works, specifically that it can't be disengaged when the bike's power is off, there won't be any issues.
Well, the first thing that it means is that it is the opinions of 2 different MP3 owners - and Jim's are somewhat different than mine. Your experiences and opinions are your own as well. Regarding the tilt-lock, however, I sharply disagree with your statement. Having owned an MP3 for nearly 3 years, I certainly know how the tilt-lock works. I also know that it can lock in a tilted position and cause the bike to swerve to one side when it releases as you start out. Hardly a fatal flaw but one that a rider has to remain alert to. And I presume you have read the posts of other riders who have had the tilt-lock accidently unlatch while refueling and fall over next to the pump or a similar event in the driveway. Again, something that requires some care.
I understand all that you said. In regards to it falling over after accidental disengagement while in a garage or while fueling, I understand that this physically can't happen if the key is in the off position with no electricity on. Owning an MP3 versus other scooters requires a bit of a mental remapping with a mental checklist of things to do and not do, like avoiding the tilt-lock switch when the bike is "On", turning the bike completely off when fueling, or understanding that the tilt-lock releasing after applying throttle is a danger point. I won't agree that the MP3 is inherently more dangerous than other scooters in its size range,just different.
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I think it can fall over if left for a long period parked in your garage with the lock ON and the key OFF.

Once I didn't ride for 5 or 6 days. Went in the garage and hopped on the MP3 and before I could touch the key or the controls I noticed the front wasn't rock solid I could move the front sideways a bit, couldn't fall over but it felt very "mushy". When I turned the Key ON, the alarm sounded.
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UTC quote
cummingsjc wrote:
In regards to it falling over after accidental disengagement while in a garage or while fueling, I understand that this physically can't happen if the key is in the off position with no electricity on. Owning an MP3 versus other scooters requires a bit of a mental remapping with a mental checklist of things to do and not do, like avoiding the tilt-lock switch when the bike is "On", turning the bike completely off when fueling, or understanding that the tilt-lock releasing after applying throttle is a danger point. I won't agree that the MP3 is inherently more dangerous than other scooters in its size range,just different.
Well, it has happened and riders have posted about it here. Did they make a mistake? Sure. Most all accidents are brought about by a mistake. The most I said was that I really don't regard the tilt-lock as a safety feature. It has some inherent risks. You don't need to defend the MP3. I am not attacking it. Just being candid about some of its strengths and weaknesses - in my experience.
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UTC quote
George_S54 wrote:
I too, have felt the rear slide just a bit and thought it "odd" that I never felt the front slide at all. If nothing else, the configuration gives me confidence and I can aggressively corner and fling the MP3 around like no other bike, and I've owned over a dozen in the past 15 years.
Don't mean to disappoint you, but the MP3 is a pig in handling compared to the BV 350. I own both and the Bv 350 in the sport bike of scooters.
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UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
cummingsjc wrote:
In regards to it falling over after accidental disengagement while in a garage or while fueling, I understand that this physically can't happen if the key is in the off position with no electricity on. Owning an MP3 versus other scooters requires a bit of a mental remapping with a mental checklist of things to do and not do, like avoiding the tilt-lock switch when the bike is "On", turning the bike completely off when fueling, or understanding that the tilt-lock releasing after applying throttle is a danger point. I won't agree that the MP3 is inherently more dangerous than other scooters in its size range,just different.
Well, it has happened and riders have posted about it here. Did they make a mistake? Sure. Most all accidents are brought about by a mistake. The most I said was that I really don't regard the tilt-lock as a safety feature. It has some inherent risks. You don't need to defend the MP3. I am not attacking it. Just being candid about some of its strengths and weaknesses - in my experience.
I do agree that the tilt-lock system IS a convenience feature and not a safety feature on the MP3. The dual front wheels do seem to be a safety feature, since there have been many reports on this forum of folks staying up when they believe they would have gone down on a two wheeled bike. I myself have experienced this. I guess you take the good with the bad, or good with the good depending on your perspective, with the MP3's 3-wheel setup and tilt-lock system.

I myself disagree with Jim's original comments about his implication that the MP3 doesn't want to stay under him since my experience is that my 500 very solidly stays under me (actually, whenever I ride two wheeled scooters they do tend to feel "wiggly" under me). Obviously, everyone is entitled to a different view and if he feels he needs to trade his MP3 in for something different, more power to him.
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UTC quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
George_S54 wrote:
I too, have felt the rear slide just a bit and thought it "odd" that I never felt the front slide at all. If nothing else, the configuration gives me confidence and I can aggressively corner and fling the MP3 around like no other bike, and I've owned over a dozen in the past 15 years.
Don't mean to disappoint you, but the MP3 is a pig in handling compared to the BV 350. I own both and the Bv 350 in the sport bike of scooters.
Oh, you're not disappointing me. I also have owned a BV350 for a short time just before the MP3. It certainly is a fine scooter, great handling. I don't find the MP3 to be a pig in comparison once underway.
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UTC quote
George_S54 wrote:
I think it can fall over if left for a long period parked in your garage with the lock ON and the key OFF.

Once I didn't ride for 5 or 6 days. Went in the garage and hopped on the MP3 and before I could touch the key or the controls I noticed the front wasn't rock solid I could move the front sideways a bit, couldn't fall over but it felt very "mushy". When I turned the Key ON, the alarm sounded.
This is likely the tilt-lock pressure sensor starting to fail. Happened to me. Get it fixed. Meanwhile, use the center stand.
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UTC quote
mpfrank wrote:
George_S54 wrote:
I think it can fall over if left for a long period parked in your garage with the lock ON and the key OFF.

Once I didn't ride for 5 or 6 days. Went in the garage and hopped on the MP3 and before I could touch the key or the controls I noticed the front wasn't rock solid I could move the front sideways a bit, couldn't fall over but it felt very "mushy". When I turned the Key ON, the alarm sounded.
This is likely the tilt-lock pressure sensor starting to fail. Happened to me. Get it fixed. Meanwhile, use the center stand.
That's what I was afraid of. Could it also be a sign that the battery is starting to fail? When I received it from the dealership that shipped it to me (it was almost new -lightly used with 120 miles) the battery was run down but took a charge and hasn't given me any trouble. I'm assuming it was sitting a few months and got run down. Still, it never shows 100% charged on a colored LED readout on my tender so I know sooner rather than later it has to be replaced. Looks like I'll get to the end of my riding season with it and be able to replace it come spring.

Is there a service and repair manual available anywhere?
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UTC quote
George_S54 wrote:
mpfrank wrote:
George_S54 wrote:
I think it can fall over if left for a long period parked in your garage with the lock ON and the key OFF.

Once I didn't ride for 5 or 6 days. Went in the garage and hopped on the MP3 and before I could touch the key or the controls I noticed the front wasn't rock solid I could move the front sideways a bit, couldn't fall over but it felt very "mushy". When I turned the Key ON, the alarm sounded.
This is likely the tilt-lock pressure sensor starting to fail. Happened to me. Get it fixed. Meanwhile, use the center stand.
That's what I was afraid of. Could it also be a sign that the battery is starting to fail? When I received it from the dealership that shipped it to me (it was almost new -lightly used with 120 miles) the battery was run down but took a charge and hasn't given me any trouble. I'm assuming it was sitting a few months and got run down. Still, it never shows 100% charged on a colored LED readout on my tender so I know sooner rather than later it has to be replaced. Looks like I'll get to the end of my riding season with it and be able to replace it come spring.

Is there a service and repair manual available anywhere?
Not likely battery, but possible I think. My wife's MP3 250 got mushy after a few days also, turned out to be the tilt lock hydraulic pump had a small inline leak. Replaced it, and now no problems after long parking duration.
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UTC quote
Madison Sully wrote:
George_S54 wrote:
mpfrank wrote:
George_S54 wrote:
I think it can fall over if left for a long period parked in your garage with the lock ON and the key OFF.

Once I didn't ride for 5 or 6 days. Went in the garage and hopped on the MP3 and before I could touch the key or the controls I noticed the front wasn't rock solid I could move the front sideways a bit, couldn't fall over but it felt very "mushy". When I turned the Key ON, the alarm sounded.
This is likely the tilt-lock pressure sensor starting to fail. Happened to me. Get it fixed. Meanwhile, use the center stand.
That's what I was afraid of. Could it also be a sign that the battery is starting to fail? When I received it from the dealership that shipped it to me (it was almost new -lightly used with 120 miles) the battery was run down but took a charge and hasn't given me any trouble. I'm assuming it was sitting a few months and got run down. Still, it never shows 100% charged on a colored LED readout on my tender so I know sooner rather than later it has to be replaced. Looks like I'll get to the end of my riding season with it and be able to replace it come spring.

Is there a service and repair manual available anywhere?
Not likely battery, but possible I think. My wife's MP3 250 got mushy after a few days also, turned out to be the tilt lock hydraulic pump had a small inline leak. Replaced it, and now no problems after long parking duration.
On further thought, not it isn't the battery. A dead battery would not cause the front end to get mushy. It might cause the alarm to sound, but not the mushy feel.
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Thanks Sully. After I thought about it, that's how I feel. I also found a couple of old discussions I'm going thru now. I'm positive it's a slow leak or old fluid needing a flush. No signs of a drip leak in my garage... Since mine's a 2009 model first put into use this year, I'm thinking I need to have all fluids flushed.
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UTC quote
George_S54 wrote:
Thanks Sully. After I thought about it, that's how I feel. I also found a couple of old discussions I'm going thru now. I'm positive it's a slow leak or old fluid needing a flush. No signs of a drip leak in my garage... Since mine's a 2009 model first put into use this year, I'm thinking I need to have all fluids flushed.
Good luck. If it is gunk on the oring seal inside the pump you may dislodge it by flushing. Mine had corrosion inside, probably due to not being changed since new. I still have the parts, if you like them you are welcome to rebuild my old one and put it in place. I was considering to do this myself, then found the admittedly tiny pits of corrosion where the seal sits when tilt lock is engaged. Could be some form of brake fluid resistant grease could plug the little pits. I was looking into that as I would be interested in having a spare, as I have two MP3s, but then decided it would be easier to just flush once a year or two.
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UTC quote
cummingsjc wrote:
Dooglas wrote:
cummingsjc wrote:
bumblebee wrote:
Dooglas wrote:
Theoretically the two front wheels give you more traction in the curves but I was never in a situation where I felt it made a difference. The tilt lock was convenient for parking the bike and moving it around the garage, but that provided no particular safety advantage. If anything the possibility of unlatching by accident or when not expected could be considered a safety risk.
My opinion exactly. When I have hinted at this , in the past, the replys were from the :cool aid drinkers" and tended to make me feel retarded. I am considering trading my '09' for something that feels like it wants to stay under me...
Jim
Does this mean that if I like my MP3 and feel safe on it that I am wrong and have just been duped by Piaggio's marketing hype? Ironically, the kickstand on any two wheeled bike is probably more likely to get you in trouble than the tilt-lock on an MP3. Once you understand how it works, specifically that it can't be disengaged when the bike's power is off, there won't be any issues.
Well, the first thing that it means is that it is the opinions of 2 different MP3 owners - and Jim's are somewhat different than mine. Your experiences and opinions are your own as well. Regarding the tilt-lock, however, I sharply disagree with your statement. Having owned an MP3 for nearly 3 years, I certainly know how the tilt-lock works. I also know that it can lock in a tilted position and cause the bike to swerve to one side when it releases as you start out. Hardly a fatal flaw but one that a rider has to remain alert to. And I presume you have read the posts of other riders who have had the tilt-lock accidently unlatch while refueling and fall over next to the pump or a similar event in the driveway. Again, something that requires some care.
I understand all that you said. In regards to it falling over after accidental disengagement while in a garage or while fueling, I understand that this physically can't happen if the key is in the off position with no electricity on. Owning an MP3 versus other scooters requires a bit of a mental remapping with a mental checklist of things to do and not do, like avoiding the tilt-lock switch when the bike is "On", turning the bike completely off when fueling, or understanding that the tilt-lock releasing after applying throttle is a danger point. I won't agree that the MP3 is inherently more dangerous than other scooters in its size range,just different.
This is an interesting concept.

Is a bike with a GP style shift patter inherently unsafe? No. In fact, it is arguably "more safe" in certain circumstances. It's a valid one, though it shouldn't apply on the street.

Why then do experienced riders have rear end lock ups with GP style shifters? They know it's GP style. There is often a sticker or at least a tape reminder on the bike telling you it is GP style. It's because they haven't 'remapped' as you say. It's also way all modern bikes have the shifters and brakes where they do. Yes, it's a regulation, but it's a regulation with a purpose (look what you just made me say! Wha? emoticon ).

The bike isn't doing anything wrong, the rider is. But, had the quirk not existed, there would be no accident.

So, is a 'quirky' item, of any sort, more dangerous than a standard one even if an accident is caused by user error? Does the item have some blame for inducing the error?
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