OP
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
UTC

Addicted
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
 
Addicted
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
UTC quote
So here's a new one. I was back home in Canada last week and took it upon myself to help get my dad's 1981 P200 back on the road after a long hiatus. Long story short, after many mishaps (including one where the old man hard seized the 3rd overbore version) I finally got the thing back together with a new cylinder and took it for a spin. After a couple miles the engine died in such a way that suggested a loss of spark -- it was sudden, and not like a seize at all. I tried kicking it over on the side of the road and found that there was little to no compression. Dang, I thought, I somehow screwed this up so badly that I holed the piston after only a few minutes' riding. But there was no sound of debris in there and so I pulled the head off to investigate. And then the attached happened.

What the hey? Has anyone seen this before?

I swear I torqued that thing down the right way and just the right amount. And I lapped it beforehand.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
yikes! I suppose many years of heat cycles, and maybe someone else had it overtorqued at some point leading to some fracture that finally got the upper hand?
@spielawieler avatar
UTC

Hooked
P200,Rally180, 100 sport , SuperCub50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 182
 
Hooked
@spielawieler avatar
P200,Rally180, 100 sport , SuperCub50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 182
UTC quote
I'd be so happy that it wasn't a holed piston!!
@bholinath avatar
UTC

Addicted
Rally 200, SS 180, ET3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 688
Location: UK
 
Addicted
@bholinath avatar
Rally 200, SS 180, ET3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 688
Location: UK
UTC quote
Thats a big hole!

I think it must have been dropped or abused at some time which caused an unseen fracture

Check for missing pieces, drain oil etc

Hope its not too bad
@trumpyscooter avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
 
Molto Verboso
@trumpyscooter avatar
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
UTC quote
never seen that before....wow!
@vader19 avatar
UTC

Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10205
Location: This is't my locker!
 
Mr. Clean
@vader19 avatar
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10205
Location: This is't my locker!
UTC quote
only in the movies. Razz emoticon

Whoa Jim.. if your lap was flat, case surface flat and you pattern torqued, all I can come up with is defect in the material or casting.. bummer.. sorry to see it.
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7367
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7367
Location: Tega Cay, SC
UTC quote
Possibilities: 1) A lousy casting. I know because I've seen a few cases like this on Harleys during the Shovelhead years(absolute crap sand castings). No way you could have picked that up unless you magna fluxed it. Or 2) someone got frustrated and hit it with a hammer. Razz emoticon
UTC

Molto Verboso
px200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1269
Location: london
 
Molto Verboso
px200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1269
Location: london
UTC quote
Never seen that before.

Grumpy
@caschnd1 avatar
UTC

Grumpy Biker
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5514
Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
 
Grumpy Biker
@caschnd1 avatar
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5514
Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
UTC quote
Did you say you installed a new cylinder? Is it possible that the new cylinder is not flat at the head mounting surface?

-Craig
OP
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
UTC

Addicted
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
 
Addicted
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
UTC quote
Yeah, it was some 200cc knockoff we got from Scooterwest. (Am I allowed to say that here?)

I probably should've checked to make sure the deck was indeed flat. My assumption was that it was fresh out of the box and therefore good to go.

One thing's for certain though: the bottom three cooling fins on the right side of the barrel extended a little further out than on the original P200 cylinder, and I had to exert a little hammer-based persuasion on the forward lip of the shroud to make it fit. Not sure if that's a *known issue*.
@trumpyscooter avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
 
Molto Verboso
@trumpyscooter avatar
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
UTC quote
JimVanMorrissey wrote:
One thing's for certain ...I had to exert a little hammer-based persuasion on the forward lip of the shroud to make it fit. Not sure if that's....
yeah... well theres your problem. You definitely did a job on it. These can be TAPPED from the top fins downward or tapped hard on the edge, but not hammer pursuaded on an edge. Yup, you broke it. lesson learnt. and sorry for your loss dude.

knockoff? its got piaggio all over it? how can you tell its a knockoff? are these not available anymore?
OP
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
UTC

Addicted
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
 
Addicted
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
UTC quote
Ah, no -- you misheard me. The flywheel shroud itself didn't fit around those fins so I took it off and tapped around the lip of the shroud so it wouldn't rub against the slightly more protruding fins of the new cylinder. Kind of ugly but it was concealed by the overlap of the cylinder shroud once installed.

No hammers came anywhere near the new cylinder!

As for the cylinder itself, here it is:
http://www.scooterwest.com/item_details/Aftermarket-Cylinder-and-Piston--200cc/3797

There's not much detail in there about its provenance but I'm guessing it came from Thailand or India. One interesting thing about it was these huge warning stickers on the outside of the box saying the ports needed to be chamfered. So I got out the Dremel and was about to do a number on it but then I saw somebody had already gone in there and done a pretty decent job. I just touched it up a little.
OP
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
UTC

Addicted
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
 
Addicted
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
UTC quote
I should also mention that with the flywheel shroud mis-fit I was a little worried that I'd somehow ended up with the wrong jug. But installation was otherwise easy (apart from the alignment pin on the bottom of it being a tight fit -- it took a few light taps with a rubber hammer on the top of the cylinder to drive the assembly home.) More to the point, the bike ran great for those few kilometres before the head came apart.
@trumpyscooter avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
 
Molto Verboso
@trumpyscooter avatar
Black 2007 PX200, Dark green 1986 PX225 Pinasco, "1972"(yeah rite) Tangerine px200, several TRIUMPH TIGRESS SCOOTERS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1082
Location: New Zealand
UTC quote
Thanks, yes i had misinterpreted that as "id smashed the shit out of it" but as you seem to have a decent grasp of the normal, and seem fairly sane, i apologise for that.

weird though aye. honestly, i know there is a helluva lot of force going on there but thats something really different. thanks for sharing

...and once again, sorry for your shattering loss
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
I highly doubt the motorsport cylinder is your problem. If it had such an awful mating surface to cause this problem, you probably would not have had a good head seal to begin with. I suspect they are selling the same aftermarket cylinder Scooters O and Scooter Mercato sell - which, the one I built an engine with was just fine.
OP
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
UTC

Addicted
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
 
Addicted
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
UTC quote
Ok good to hear.

The question now is -- where does my dad get a PX200 stock head? They're a bit hard to find, these. At least from Canadian or American retailers.

There are a few vaguely defined "performance head" options kicking around but I'm encouraging him to stay stock.
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
motorsport sells them
OP
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
UTC

Addicted
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
 
Addicted
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
UTC quote
Ok great, thanks!
@magg avatar
UTC

Addicted
Vespa GL Touring 180, Vespa GL 225, Vespa PX 200 Sahara Edition
Joined: UTC
Posts: 614
Location: Norway
 
Addicted
@magg avatar
Vespa GL Touring 180, Vespa GL 225, Vespa PX 200 Sahara Edition
Joined: UTC
Posts: 614
Location: Norway
UTC quote
Jim, I used to have quite a few px200 heads lying around (both USA versions, lebanese versions and regular ones). Some I've given away, but I still think I have one or two left. I'm going to Belgrade in a couple of weeks, and I could bring one over to you if you're not in a hurry fixing this.
OP
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
UTC

Addicted
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
 
Addicted
@jimvanmorrissey avatar
Vespa PX200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: Belgrade
UTC quote
Hey thanks for this but the ailing Vespa in question is over in Ontario. My bike here in BG is fine!
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0159s ][ Queries: 4 (0.0091s) ][ live ][ 318 ][ ThingOne ]