Modern Vespa

Hey all, can someone tell me what's going on here? We were taking the scoot off the hauler and the clutch side handlebar tube kind of came loose. It slides back and forth, but I can't figure out how to cinch it up. The pin inside the headset that goes thru the tube is still there. There's just this new half inch gap at the shifter. Advice appreciated.

wat the? did the screw holding the pulley in place come loose? do you have a pic inside the headset?

Yikes. I think Vader's idea makes good sense, post up a pic.

Here's the best pic I can take without undoing a bunch o' wires.. thx guys.

Hmmm that looks different than what I've got.. i think.. could the tube have come where the switch is? can you remove the switch cover and look.. i don't have a switch on my gear side..

Could the tube have pulled loose from the cast grip assembly? Measure the protruding portion of the tube and compare it to another.

Ok, here's a shot with the switch removed. Jim, I think you're right... looks like the tube moved in the cast grip assembly. The switch wires look like they're almost pinched.

Looks like the cast part needs to move ---> that way, or the tube needs to move <--- this way.

Problem is neither of them is budging. Now what?

Question is, how are the two parts normally afixed to each other? Whatever it is/was, it's broken free.

You might try googling other forums to see if this has happened to anyone else, and/or whether or not this could be caused by towing straps on the grips.

I have a feeling this might not be safely repairable, nonetheless it's an interesting failure.

Edit: on second thought, it might be repairable by threading a holding bolt of some kind through both parts, perhaps from the bottom.

I'm interested to see what others have to say.

Did some googling, didn't find anything similar.

Good question, how they're fixed together. I don't see any way of loosening or tightening the tube in the cast part.

We always loop straps around bottom of the headset. It's possible some earlier owner strapped around the grips. The gear side tube's always had some play in it since we've had the scoot.

Dang, wonder if a replacement is even available...

I thought SIP had them.. I bought one for my v90 and it came w/ the throttle tube.. maybe you can email Martin at SIP.. or.. I'd think you could find the gear side perch on Scooter Community Classifieds on FB..

You can get the whole headset at SIP. maybe they'll sell you the gear side perch?

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/handlebar+for+vespa+125+pv_13806500

Serious downer - that's original paint there. Sorry to see it socal. Should be repairable but probably the repair hurts your paint...

how about countersinking 2 countersink screws in there under the switch and hold it together that way? it'd be like fitting a quick action throttle tube (screwed to the headset)

Last edited by Vader19 on Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:02:18 +0000; edited 1 time

Thx Chris, I'll look and ask around. Would be nice to find one with the same switch layout. If you see one, gimme a holler.

Yeah it hurts.. you guys know how I feel about brownie.. I'll pull the whole thing and look at it closer and see if there's some obvious fix.

Meanwhile, WWVD (what would Voodoo do)? Bet he's fixed one of these before. Hey Voodoo ... come in Voodoo...

Last edited by SoCalGuy on Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:06:35 +0000; edited 1 time

we posted at the same time.. how about the countersunk screw idea?

The countersunk screw idea I like ... first need to figure out how to get the tube to move freely in the shifter part... also, not much meat on a tube for a screw to bite into ... we'll see...

Yes totally need voodoo input!

I've done that on accident before too.

You will need to heat up the cast aloy part and whack it back down the tube with a plastic dead blow hammer.

Also... on the gear change side the cast alloy part is pinned in place with a small protruding piece of alloy that goes into the tube. You must have broken that pin at some point it could have been years ago and now it's finally moved.


On the throttle side the alloy part is simply a friction fit with the pin going into the headset instead of the tube




(On most headsets)

That's impressive. I think Josh is right - use some heat.

But I'd try first pulling it out and tapping it back into position with a suitable drift. Then I'd pop rivet through where the switch is... probably only need one, and the projecting part won't be big enough to catch anything.

Josh, Ginch, thx.. good info, we'll give it some heat and some persuasion and let you know how it goes.

I've never seen that happen, so Josh is the experienced guy here.


It does seem that the cast part has shifted down the tube and that you should be able to move it back where it belongs and the hole the wires come thru will be properly aligned again. Looks like it needs to be moved about half a hole.

I wouldn't try to do it in the bike, pull the wires & remove the tube. Once you get it out you should get a better idea of where it wants to be from 'witness marks' & either press or gently tap it back into position. You'll want to use a piece of pipe that just slips over the tube with the grip removed. You may even be able to do it without heat & risk of paint damage. Then I like Ginch's idea for invisible repair, just a pop rivet thru both casting & tube under the switch to the right of the switch screw.


Here's one that hasn't slipped for you to compare

Without heat is a nice idea to protect the paint but be careful it might crack the alloy doing it cold.. youd be surprised how hot you can get old paint before it blisters

I wonder if a sharp blow at the end of the tube could've caused this, such as a hard fall on the left side?

At least someone (josh) has seen this before.

Good luck with the repair and let us know how it comes out.

Not sure there is a pin I think it is an interference fit. You might consider using a hydraulic press to press the tube back into the casting. Worst case you might be able to pound it back. Make sure you have the casting secure on a flat surface and that the tube can pass through. Make sure you use something between the drift and the tube to prevent damage to the tube. You could perhaps add a screw behind the switch to keep it in place or extend the switch screw so that it pins the tube.

Thanks all, appreciate the input... tube'll come out this weekend and we'll see what's what.

I'm looking for your handle.. question. is the type w/ the light switch a US specific model Super item?

Thx Chris, appreciate it. Yes, I think it is a US specific item. I know the switch was used on 1975 and newer US Sprints and Supers. I think US Rallys and Primaveras used them too, but not 100% sure.

I may be overthinking this, if you can push the tube back on you may have lost the major part of the interference fit, if you pin it or use a smallish screw you may fret the screw over time and the casting will become detached.


Grumpy

Good luck.

You're not overthinking it Grumpy, I was wondering the same thing.

Assuming we can push the tube back into place ... and I think we probably can ... what's the best way to keep it there? Rivet? Screw? Pin? Weld?

Took a closer look last night. See pics.

Pulled the clip inside the headset that holds the gear pulley on the tube. With the clip disconnected, the whole tube can easily move farther into the headset enough to close the gap.

So now I'm thinking instead of pounding on the tube to try to move it back into place in the shifter - and possibly further compromise the fit - why not just drill new holes for the clip inside the headset and call it done?

Anyone see a downside to that?


Perhaps drill new holes for pin?

Shiny area shows how much it moved

How it would look with tube pushed farther into headset

I guess you could, but even to do that you'll want to remove the tube assembly. The problem is then those cutouts in the tube won't be where they really want to be.

I'd try pressing it back into place w/ a piece of pipe that just fits over the tube & put a pop rivet thru both the casting & tube, hidden next to the switch screw as Ginch suggested. If you don't have access to a press, you can probably tap it gently where it needs to go w/ that same pipe. You could heat it up some if you like. I don't think it will be too 'loose', but you should be able to feel it if it is. Use steel pop rivets, not aluminum & use the larger size. Use two if you're worried about it working loose.

No doubt about that. The old original Piaggio paints are incredibly tough. It's even hard for paint stripper to get it off. They must have used the most toxic stuff imaginable. The paint nowadays can't compare.

I may be wrong, but except for clutching, isn't most of the stress going to be on the tube itself? The cast portion only houses the clutch lever and a few switches and acts as a spacer between the headset and the grip.

I would probably try to get it back into original position and use some secure way to fasten it there, and if you do use pop rivets, I'd opt for the SS ones, not the aluminum ones.

If it comes loose again, it's the housing that will move, not the grip.

remove ... take off grip .... slide a loose tube over it n whack .... im oldskool brute force then put it back together ... like someone says if it does move again itll only be the cast bit n not the whole tube

I'm guess I'm in the take it off and fix it group. If for no other reason that it may happen again and mangle the wires in the process.

Yes, this.

Done.

Used a little heat, a piece of 3/4" PVC pipe for a drift, and hard plastic mallet.

It's a really tight fit. I don't think it'll move again. If it does we'll put a rivet in.

Pretty easy fix. Hardest part was pulling everything apart.

Thanks for the assistance everyone & cheers.

Right on Mike.. I hope it stays put for you.

Awesome, Brownie rides again!

It kinda puzzles me how you got it to slip in the first place. Something to lern from maybe.

I have a hard time believing the parts aren't supposed to be anchored together somehow. Don't be surprised if it shifts again over time. Good luck.