Modern Vespa

It's time. I am a Vespa year wiser. Let's see if I keep this thread under 30 pages. For some reason I think this may be a little more difficult than the P. I also hope to do a better job. This time ,as I break it down, I will keep a log of what new parts I will need to order. Last time I ordered as needed and had to wait for parts. Also this time I will backup my pictures as I go. Last time I lost all pics before putting it together. If it all goes well maybe I will actually keep this scooter this time.

So do we assume that the stator is working now?

What's the scope? Your paint looks too good to repaint.

Yes stator works now. There are still some electrical problems. I couldn't get rare brake light to work. I will be putting a whole new loom in. That should be a treat.

I'm sure you now have enough cred for us to help out.
Can't wait to see how much you have learnt.

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Yeah some of it. I'm just in the bring it back to original look school. I really do not like the diseased looking floorboards particularly.

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Me too . I still think I will need quite a bit of your help and look forward to learning more. I enjoyed "working" with everybody last year.

I see your point. Full repaint or local repair? This should be fun to watch.

Hopefully my Ode to Speedy will be helpful for panelling & painting etc, i have tried to make it informative. Happy to assist wherever i can

the way youve treated that rust so far is brilliant. id be inclined to keep with the restraint, remove the floor runners and polish the frame(no T cut). keep the jenolite on the bits for a year or so. then look into a repaint if looking at your feet still tends to irk you. double dare, just try it.

Trumpy... he can't resist. He got the nice toolbox, now he needs to take another scooter apart.

I think it's all based on personality.... some of us like to ride, some like to wrench, some like both. Some of us cannot stand to ride anything other than a perfectly restored scoot, some of us like ratty rusty scoots, and some of us like some wear and tear consistent with age (I hate when people say Patina!).

I'm in the latter group, and after watching Beef's problems, I am terrified of doing a full engine rebuild on my own. Not that I would make a mistake like the cotter pin, but that I would tweak something minor inside the engine and then POOF there goes my engine on my first ride. But at the same time, I want my scoot to look like it's been on the road since 1979, not like a brand new PX.

But it's all different strokes here... and I can admire the guys who want a really clean scoot and the know the condition of all the systems.

I am eagerly awaiting the photo blog with all the details.

So what's the plan?

I'll be curious to follow your plan and outcome. I have some rust on my ET I want to deal with, but I want to do so without decimating the otherwise good original paint. Look forward to your project!

I almost made it to November. A new record.

The plan: I put the scooter in the operating room today.( my basement ) It will be too cold in the garage.
Pretty much same plan as last year with the P. I'll dismantle the scooter and label parts and take pictures. I put parts in big yellow envelopes rather than bags. I can write notes on the envelopes, like don't forget cotter pin. No joke. I will definitely wrote that down.
I will replace all obvious preventative maintenance parts
cables, loom, brakes. I will definitely save and buff most original parts. The floor rails are in excellent condition. I made the mistake of ruining the ones last year so I will need some tips on how to take those off . I am having a shop in RI take a look at the motor once I drop it. I don't have the history on it so I'm
Not sure if it needs some work. I'm with Larry I'm not ready to go messin where I shouldnt be messin ( quoting a line from These boots are made for walking) I would
Really like to strip the paint myself.
I can do the little bodywork needed. A friend of a friend is going to paint it for me, he has a booth. He may even show me a little bit if the ropes. I'm hoping to at least personally paint one of doors. Don't mistake this plan as an expert plan, I'm shooting to hope one day be a novice. Stick around I WILL NEED HELP.

you can write on ziplocks with a sharpie, i like to see my parts, but whatever works for you

if the paint on the whole scoot is decent enough, just wire wheel those rust areas (im usually against wire brushing but itll work in this instance) and use phosphoric acid on them till the black is gone. The only reason youd remove paint is to treat rust or if the existing paint is no longer adhering. you could choose an area 15 x 15cm and wet paint strip it (crc gasket remover works). Around that floor board area is probably a pretty good place to look. Your looking for filiform corrosion (http://www.corrosionclinic.com/types_of_corrosion/filiform_corrosion_underfilm_corrosion.htm) over a large area. if theres none or very little i probably wouldnt bother with bare metaling it.

Then the hard part; the prep. What makes it a skill is knowing when to stop. and getting a good feather on any broken edges. painting is all prep. paint hides nothing, in fact it brings out any imperfections, dark colors make these worse, whites and silvers are quiet forgiving.

Wash the whole frame with soapy water and a blue or grey scotchy to remove wax,silicone and greases, doesnt matter if you lightly scratch the paint but get it really clean. then degrease it and use the wipe on wipe off with a dry cloth method. Now your ready to key the surface. if you dont remove all the contaminants like silicones from waxes or what not you could very easily have paint defects that might require you to completely reprep and respray.
Feather the edges of those rust areas with some 240 grit (for feathering, always use a sanding block-rubber,cork, wood etc. various sizes including tounge depressors if need be) and use a green scotchy to get into the really nook and cranny areas and 240(no block required) for the rest of the frame. Your just making a key surface for paint. Dont rub through the paint, put a line of masking tape on any high points or edges and then scotchy those when youve finished sanding the flatter areas.
Absolutely resist the urge to touch smooth bare metal surfaces with bare hands. it causes rust. You can use a phosphoric acid wash on a lint free towel to wipe bare metal afterwards.(use gloves and eye protection) you dont need to rinse it off, ive done this many times and never had paint adhesion issues with 2 pack. I do not know whether this will effect single pack systems but i dont use them as a primer.

Use masking tape designed for long term contact. That way you avoid irritating removal problems. Use sponge ear buds that you can cut up for threaded holes and the likes.

Once the whole thing has been prepped and masked out you are ready to hand it over to your mate. if you want to have a play, paint the underside and the inside gas tank areas and the tank. that way when you get orange peel you wont see it
This will save unnecessarily cutting the orange peel back.

These are a fun challenge for an experienced painter to spray because the curved surfaces blow paint overspray onto each other and obviously the legshields are painted both sides. So it has to be done quickly if you want to get a flat paint job. it usually takes me an hour and a half to set a px type up in the booth correctly (tack rag etc) so im happy with the layout of all the parts, then less than 5 minutes to paint the frame and about 20 minutes for everything else. 3-10 coats later(depending on paint system) its done

^^^Great prep advice here!

To remove the floor rails with minimum damage & deformation, I like to use a small sharp wood chisel, with the beveled edge laid flush on the underside of the floor right where the rivet emerges. One sharp smack and the rivet is sheared flush & clean, but maybe sneak up on how hard to minimize any unnecessary scratching or gouging. The angle of the chisel is important here.

Make sure you find ALL of them and then gentle prying(plastic spatula works well here) from the top side if they haven't already fallen off. If there's any resistance, look for a rivet you might have missed or not sheared off quite flush. You can also now use a small punch here from below if needed.

Let me add that if you need to use any filler, I've only been using the newer 'fiberglass' type lately instead of the older Bondo type stuff. You'll spend more time sanding it down, but it applies very nicely and is much more durable

Nearly forgot: the center rails are different, held on at each end by the screw you see and by a drive screw you can't see in the middle. Pull the screws, end caps & the rubber strip. Now you can see the head of the drive screw.

It's not a rivet, but similar with long spiral grooves in it. To remove you need something thin & strong to tap into position under the drive screw head, between the rail and the scooter frame to gently pry it up & loose. You may have to bend the rail slightly, just bend it back straight. Do NOT loose those drive screws, you'll play hell finding replacements.

Tank out, now working on taking the wheels off. I got the front lug nut off. ( is that what you call it) The back is frozen . I even had somebody sit on it. Unfortunatley my back brake is off already and I can't keep the scooter or wheel from moving as I try to break it. I tried jamming something bulky between the tire and the floor, but then my wife said she was having trouble breathing.

Stick a wedge under the tyre with someone sitting on it and nice long breaker bar.

Good luck

Grumpy

Any ideas for a wedge? I did try a few things but they kept slipping. Like a rubber mallet and a rubber handle of a hammer.

Did you try having someone sit on it and put the breaker bar on, gently load it, then giving the handle a decent whack with the hammer (sort of half way down the bar should do it) to shock it off? might take a couple of hits with short controlled strikes but that should do it. if it doesnt after a couple of goes, dont persist. borrow or buy an impact wrench and make sure it is set to undone before using it. The impact wrench is the better solution, i just dont have one lying around.

well, you are screwed already! or unscrewed NOT!

At this point, why not just pull the motor w/ the wheel still on it?

With the motor out, it'll be easier to find a place to jam something against the tire to hold it too. If you are using 3/8" drive sockets, it may be too difficult - you really need 1/2" drive stuff for the tough ones + breaker bar + pipe over the end for leverage. Plenty of time to deal with it later - take it to a tire shop if you can't get the damn nut loose.

BTW, that's usually called the hub nut & the lug nuts(or bolts on older bikes) are the smaller ones holding the wheel to the hub

All set, Neighbor had an impact wrench. I have to get one if I'm going to restore a scooter every winter .

I am close to dropping the engine. My cables and wires are unhooked. I removed the exhaust. It seems I have to remove the carborator and maybe something on the other side of the frame where the carb goes through. I see a rubber seal. Any tips of which I do first or where the nuts are to accomplish this.

Check out-

http://www.smallframes.com/tech.htm

Or get this book-
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/mobile/w/how-to-restore-classic-smallframe-vespa-scooters-mark-paxton/1116350944?ean=9781845844370

Seriously, get the book. Worth the pictures and help and a great deal for what it will teach you. Very happy I got that one.

I have the book first thing I bought. I like it but I don't think it did a good job explaining this process. That link you sent me seems pretty good. Thank you. So it seems like I release the carb from inside the tank area by one nut ...or two, if I include myself. I have the choke and throttle cable removed. I'll give it a go in the morning. Thanks again.

You mentioned using yellow bags for the parts.. Get clear ziplocks, else you will curse having to open them all the time to look whats inside.

I do for some things but when I did my P i used the envelopes. I wrote things on the envelope that was really helpful like, don't forget to get a new gasket or put a certain piece on first. Wire info etc. I even have small envelopes for separating nuts and bolts. Like one envelope has the bolts for the tail light bracket. I'm not ready to throw bolts all in one big bin.

When you go to drop it down, watch the coil, you probably have to loosen it so it can clear the body. Take a pic of the wires at the JB before you disconnect them.

Locate a donor rim or use your spare,
Remove the rubber tyre and tube(hardest bit sometimes)

Put a screwdriver up through the hole where the valve would normally go.

Bolt it back on the hub and when you go to loosen the centre nut the screw driver/rim will rotate and then the screw driver will act on the swing bar part of the engine ...solid..safe. and locks it in place
so you can go hard on the nut
Its a standard piece in my shed now. I got an old rim and welded a bar up through the valve hole.

Just bolt it on like any wheel when the nut needs attention

Hmmmm On long hauls you could even just carry a bolt of the correct diameter with two nuts.
It necessitate removing the rubber but means you can remove the rear hub by your self

..and on the side of the road in the middle of no where
Good luck with rebuild

Nice. . I was Thinking of doing something similar but I like your idea better. I was thinking of removing a bolt and nut from the wheel and then sticking a rod or screwdriver through it so it would lock up when the wheel turned. Then I figured I would probably wreck something. Another thing I was going to do was bolt a vice low to the ground so I could clamp the tire with the vice. Another stupid idea. Best idea was a friend with an impact wrench.

Ok thanks for the heads up on the coil.

You'll be amazed how light the engine is .

Buy lots of rolls of masking tape, easy to write notes on & sticks to most things (besides grease, but in those instances it will stick to itself.
If you stuff up the writing or putting it on, somply stick it to your jeans.
I used at least 600m (almost 2000ft) doing Speedy

I took the carb out with no issues. Thanks sd, thanks MJ for the link. Now I know what bolt I had to loosen. I actually thought that bolt was an adjustment of some kind.

I always have trouble removing the long bolt of the engine. ....alway lol. I have only taken out two. It gets jammed from the weight of the engine. I used a fiberglass rod, picture below, and a hammer to pound out the bolt. I put grease on the rod and it pulled out easy for the engine to drop.

Yeah it's a bit of a balancing act, but you want to support the engine with one hand while pulling the bolt with the other so it doesn't fall. After you're out of the first side, it's good to try to keep those holes lined up so the bolt comes out as easy as possible.

^^^ He's right, when removing the motor you can put some wood blocks under it to support it and shove a big phillips screwdriver(or fiberglass rod ) into the first hole to keep the motor positioned well as you pull the bolt all the way out the other side, keeping a hand on the motor to steady it so the wood blocks prevent a surprise landing when you pull the screwdriver out.

Similar, in reverse, when you go to put it back in next Spring. so... it took you what, 3.1417 minutes or hours to do this?