Modern Vespa

Was upstairs in our bedroom yesterday afternoon, when I heard something outside that sounded like a baseball bat striking plastic body panels. Went out on the veranda, but at first, could see nothing out of the ordinary.

Then I hear canine whining and see two pit bull/rottweiler dogs circling my neighbor's car. Then they attacked the car, scratching at it and whining. I realize they must have chased a cat that took refuge under the car. Then one of the dogs starts to attack the grill of the car. Grabs the license plate assembly in its mouth, bending it up, while trying to get his paws under it. The other dog is attacking something in the area of the front driver's tire, and the "bat on plastic" noise begins again. Can't see what he is doing, as my line of sight is blocked by the wall at the property line.

The ferocity and frenzy exhibited by the dogs was unbelievable. They were clearly frustrated by not being able to tear their way through the car body to the cat, which I now realized must be on top of the engine. I gave a brief thought to getting a 2 x 4 and chasing them away, but realized that if they were that ferocious towards the car, the last thing I would want is for that frenzy to be displaced towards me.

At this point, my neighbor arrives home in his other car and pulls down the drive to the back of our houses. Now I am fearful that he will investigate the sounds coming from the car, as the sound of plastic being torn at is constant.

Next thing I see is the car of the dogs' owner slowly coming towards our road, and he is clearly looking for them. As he makes the turn onto our road, he spots them, speeds up a bit, gets out issues commands for them to stop and picks them both up by the scruff of the neck and throws them in his car.

As the dogs were being put into the car, my neighbor arrived out front. There is a long conversation, they exchange info, and the dog owner drives off. I go downstairs and out front and ask if the dogs did any damage. Neighbor says, "Yes, a lot".

I look down, and the plastic belly pan that is under the radiator has been torn out and secured by a single screw! The plastic lining of the driver side wheel well is torn loose and split. Two wiring harnesses are torn loose, with at least four conductors that we can see severed and hanging free! Deep scratches on the hood and all forward body panels where the dogs tried to "dig" their way into the car.

Pop the hood, and sure enough a totally terrorized cat cowering on top of the engine. Cat leaves like a bat out of hell, and we haven't seen him since. We have 6 outdoor "yard" cats that we feed between us, and we start an inventory as they cautiously return, one by one over then next 2 hours. All cats were accounted for, except the one in the engine compartment.

Neighbor carefully starts car, and virtually every caution light on the dash illuminates. Bits and pieces of wiring harness are on the ground around the car. All exterior lights work except one front auxiliary light. He called the local Toyota dealer this AM and will be taking it in for repair.

I have never witnessed such ferocity and frenzy by a canine. I was convinced that if the dogs' owner had not arrived, they would have continued the attack indefinitely. There was no way they could reach the top of the engine, where the cat had taken refuge, but based on what they did to the car, the extent of the additional damage they could have done is staggering.

What are you going to do when next you see the dogs outside their home?

These types of dog have been made illegal in the UK as folk were just getting tired of reading horror stories in the papers where children got torn to pieces. I like dogs but just can't see any reason for having animals like this.

Oliver-

It's been over a year since one of that family's dogs got out of the pen, and it was the mother of these two. She had a cat cornered, but we were able to hold her at bay with a broom until we could scoop up the cat and get her indoors. Then she just sniffed at our neighbor's door and went home. These two were much more ferocious and in a true frenzy. That there were two might have added to the frenzy.

The owner was very apologetic, which of course doesn't help. Not much we can do if they repeat this, other than call the owner and the police. The dog pen is very sturdy, so I have no idea how they got out.

Dogs on the island, of all breeds, are generally well behaved, and, fortunately, no attacks on humans, however slight, in the 10 years we have lived here. Chickens, cats, etc are a different story.

Back when I lived in Colorado, in a little cabin, in the middle of a herd of sheep, two house dogs got loose and managed to kill about 14 sheep. I heard the sheep bleating and they were running all over.

When I went out I saw a collie and a german shepard in the herd, they were bloody and looked manic. As I walked up the dogs, they turned and came towards me. They did NOT look normal to me at that point. Very fierce and wild. And if I had run, they would have attacked me. I backed out of the field and ran to get my landlord.

According to my landlords, unlike wolves, which kill only one prey, drag it away and eat it, dogs in a pack get into a killing frenzy. They will kill and kill and kill. Hence a pack of dogs are extremly dangerous.

My landlords were leasing out the land to the sheep hearders and had to pay them for the lost sheep. The dogs were taken to the pound and the owners came to threaten me, that I did not see their dogs doing the deed.

In colorado, back in the 80's a least, you were allowed to shoot any dogs in your livestock for this very reason. The neighbors were plain lucky that the dogs were not shot. My landlord gave me a 22 to use if I saw anything in the sheep again. I wouldn't use the gun on a dog, but I could see why other's might after I saw all the sheeps bodies all over the field.

My user name is derived from Spuds MacKenzie the former Bull Terrier that appeared in the Bud Light commercials. I currently have two Bull Terriers and am the Vice President of our local AKC sanctioned Bull Terrier Club. We are mainly a group of folks who show Bull Terriers, but we also (thankfully)have a group of members who take care of our rescue operations. We provide vet care and rehabilitation to about 70 dogs a year. They don't come from any of our breeders who do all the recommended health testing: heart, kidney, hearing, hip dysplasia, to try and assure the dogs we bring into the world are happy, healthy and make great house pets.

There are WAY too many people in this world that look as dogs as a source of income and breed indiscriminately with no regards to the living conditions that their progeny will inhabit. Or they think that it would be a good science project for little Johnny. Then they deny responsibility for the dogs they've brought into this world.

Having dogs confined to living in pens without human interaction is a recipe for disaster. Too many people simply don't know how to raise a dog to be a loving, gentle, family member.

There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

Attached some photos of my big teddy bear, Buckwheat Zydeco, at the Houston World Series of Dog Shows, Meet the Breed event.

SPUDS a neighbor has one. Looks just like the Target dog. Your right about the breeding and because of that i wouldn't have one around kids and i think places are right to be cautious about having them. Bad breeding and bad owners don't help. Sad that is has to be done but it's a shame you can't prevent stupid people from breeding them and owning them. I have seen dogs in a pack attack things and AL is right,very scary. When they get into a pack (more than one) they feed off one another. Rotties are a dangerous breed also. 2 bad breeds is a recipe for disaster IMHO. Glad you didn't get hurt AL. Here we have a lot of pit bulls. Most are chained up in peoples yards with a "beware of dog sign". That does nothing if they get loose and attack someones small dog or humans. Had a girl,talking on a phone with her German Shepard mix on a leash. As i walked by the dog on the side walk the dogs teeth grazed my leg (intentionally). I gave the girl a earful about walking a dangerous dog. It's the one time i would sue somebody. That dog should be walked with a muzzle. Had i not gotten away i would of been bit.

Bull Terriers are not to be equated to the Pit Bull (American Pit Bull) which has been bred for nothing more than fighting (or protecting drug stashes).

Rottweilers, pretty much the same.

Here in Ontario, they must be licenced and insured.

The Bull Terrier has gotten a bad rap as far as I'm concerned. Have know and interacted with many over the years and cannot say I would be concerned with that particular breed.

scary!

They're banned here in Denver (Colorado), and are restricted in other places in the state. Very sad, since they're perfectly good dogs, along with Mastiffs, Rotts, etc.

Jerks training them for nefarious purposes ruins it for good folks.

There are lots of the pit bulls here in the town I'm in here in Colorado. Have good friends that raise rott's and never a problem with either. Is very true that it's how they've been trained. Too bad some JERKS ruin it for everyone.

I lived in Denver for not quite a year, five years ago, Bull Terriers are not banned there, only because the Mile High Bull Terrier Club became active and got them taken off the list. I carried a card in my wallet explaining that my dog was not a pit bull, and it had pictures that showed the difference, just in case I had a problem.

Keeping a dog tied up with a chain in the yard should be illegal. That would stop a lot of problems.

Instead of banning breeds, why don't we ban stupid people?

I truly believe that the owners of the dogs in attacks should be held completely and totally accountable. It's that way in some places but not everywhere, no matter what the breed. In the 60's it was German Shepard's, then in the 70's Doberman's and the later 80's the Rott's came into the public eye. All of these breeds were bred and trained to achieve the reps they had none of them were "naturally" bad and neither are any other breeds. More often than not the owners are the irresponsible ones in these events.

The only times I've ever had to shoot dogs all involved pit bulls. Once was on a large rural property, inhabited by convicted felons who kept the dogs as a form of protection while engaged in various theft and drug crimes.
Being at the residence to serve felony warrants, we were charged by four pit bulls from approximately sixty yards distant, running at us from a nearby woods. There was no exit available in the time the dogs overtook us and I was very thankful to have been carrying an automatic shotgun at the time. Those dogs meant business.

I am aware that many of these dogs are gentle and well-loved members of the family, playful with all, but almost all of them I have personally encountered have been owned by criminals who only want a large, powerful animal to use as a weapon.

Al, I hope you can keep the cats out of YOUR vehicle's engine compartment! That really sounds costly.

Maybe something like an ultrasonic repellant only by your car? But even then, in the heat of the moment the cat probably won't take notice of it.

Both our neighbors and we like cats, and were very relieved that the cat in question found shelter. Probably distracted the dogs from the 5 other cats that fled the scene. We live in a rural area, and the cats keep the rodent and reptile population away from our homes. Thus, we feed them and let them take shelter from the elements on our verandas. They are a friendly crew, and actually discourage other cats from camping out in our yards, thus spreading the cat population out around the neighborhood.

What set me back was the ferocity, frenzy and determination exhibited. The "attack" on the car to get to the cat lasted at least 15 mins, and when the owner showed up, the dogs had shown no reduction in their determination to get to the cat. While one was trying to "dig" his way through the hood, the other got up on the roof of the car and "dug". They both tried to dig their claws into seams on the front end and pull the panels free to get into the engine compartment. And, as noted earlier, the damage in the wheel well.

Yes, the dogs' owner was very contrite and definitely committed to pay for the damage. He's a young fellow (30s) and it will probably set him back more than he can really afford.

I don't know or care if it is the dogs or the owners that create such behavior when the dog sees a cat. Canines and felines have a long history of having tiffs. We worked several years in greyhound rescue and homing, and only about 50% were "cat friendly", even though as track dogs, they had never seen a cat before in their lives. Very few that were not cat friendly upon arrival in a trained foster home could be acclimated to cats. We also screened for "dog friendly" and "child friendly".

From our viewpoint, our neighbors and ourselves, we are just thankful that no living being was injured.

Whilst I understand the sentiment that there are no bad dogs, only bad owners, quite frankly it's a load of bollocks. Bull terriers are alpha dogs and if they get loose can maim or kill other animals or even children - it just seems to be in their nature to dominate. Unfortunately here in the UK a child gets mauled to death every year or so by these animals and it happens because they have the ability to kill. A spaniel or poodle (apart from being softer natured) does not really have either the aggression or the jaw power

Certain types of people seem drawn to these types of dog and when it all goes wrong they wheel out platitudes in the same way Charlton Heston does when some nut shoots up a school

Funny you should mention Spaniels, as I have only been bitten once in my life and it was by a Spaniel, whose owners never took the time to socialize the dog properly.

And that's the key! All dogs, no matter what shape or size or color share 99% of the same DNA with their ancestors the wolf. They are pack animals and need companionship. Deny them basic love and affection and they can go nuts and revert back to their instinctive traits.

Much like, have you ever seen how quickly a domestic pig goes feral in the wild? In only a couple of months the pig starts to completely change its physical look toward a boar and that runs in wild packs.

Owning a dog is a responsibility that a lot of people are not mature or smart enough to do successfully, and simply should not be allowed to have dogs.

That's where responsible breeding comes into play. Don't sell your dog to irresponsible people.

Spuds, so you were bitten by a spaniel but you still sport a complete pair of working hands? Could you say the same if you had been bitten by a bull terrier?

Cheers,
Bob

LOL, Charlton Heston has been dead since 2008 -- Got any more recent examples?

Al, that's a truly disturbing scene. And one that should only be approached by a trained animal officer (unless the situation warrants an immediate intervention).

Belk mentioned the sheep. It usually takes two or more dogs to bring out this behavior. Domestic dogs don't know what to do with a kill, so there is a tendency to keep killing. A wolf or coyote has a purpose (a meal). This is something a dog owner has to be aware of, and to take whatever measures to guard against it.

As an aside, our own human behavior isn't much better. Mob mentality is often cited for dreadful behavior. Add night and fire, and we can just plain change.

I'm in the camp of there are no bad breeds, just bad breeding (irresponsible owners). I owned a pet (primarily dog) supply shop when I lived in FL, and every shepherd, pit bull, Am. Staff, rotty and other large "viscious" breed that came in was very docile and sweet tempered. I had more nips from Jack Russells, chihuahuas, shi tzus and the like because the common excuse was they are small and their bites don't hurt that much. And the person could easily hold back 10-20 lb of pulling dog (except when he wasn't paying attention).

As for jaw strength, the pit may be strong, but far from the strongest. Look at some of the shepherd and mastiff breeds for that.

Most dogs who seem to try to bite and just miss are not trying. They are sending a message. If he wants to bite and hold, he won't miss. My own dogs recently have been springer spaniels. Sweet, no bites. They may not have the most powerful jaws, but I'd never say "I'm glad it was just a springer that bit me."

People's ignorance, fear and the exploitation of both have hurt dogs.
Dogs' ignorance, fear and the exploitation of both have hurt people.

Since it was clear that only a car was at risk, there was no way I was going to intervene, once I saw the ferocity of the animals. I assumed, and correctly as I later saw, that the cat was on top of the engine. The dogs were too big to even get under the car, and thus were trying to tear and/or dig their way to their prey. I remained on my second floor veranda until the owner had arrived and put them in his car. I was very relieved that the dogs were secure before my neighbor came up the driveway to investigate.

Nothing to be gained by entering the fray regarding which (if any) breeds are more prone to problematic/aggressive behavior due to breed traits and/or training.

No matter the breed, an animal owner is responsible to ensure his/her pets are under control 100% of the time. This is as much for the pet's safety as it is for what the pet can do if not under control.

We have several neighbors who, despite our community's unambiguous leash law, like to walk their dogs off leash (to show how well trained they are, I assume). I have tried to explain to them that it doesn't matter how well trained their dogs are. No animal is 100% predictable, and even if they were, there are many people who are so frightened of dogs that walking one off leash is tantamount to telling those people they can't comfortably walk their own streets.

But, IMHO, it goes far beyond human safety (or perception of safety).

If a pet escapes even once, it can do damage to property that can range from serious (dig up gardens & landscaping, chew up garden furniture, etc.), to nuisance (defecating on private property, frightening desirable wildlife, etc.).

And depending on how you feel about the issue, having your pure breed bitch impregnated by the neighbor's loose dog can fall anywhere along that spectrum.

The potential for attacks and damage is, IMHO a red herring that clouds the real issue: The requirement to maintain control of one's pets 100% of the time.

Al's neighbor can say "It was only that once..." all he wants, but whether the result is property damage or a lethal attack is really beside the point. It could only have happened if he lost (or never had) full control of his pets.

The issue seems to be not so much what kind of dogs Al's neighbor has or how aggressive they are, but rather that they were allowed to get loose.

Actually, Trep, it is a societal norm for many more docile breeds of dog to roam freely on the island. But then, one might hypothesize that if a dog is trained to mix freely with the other beings in its environment without being a predator, it can be left off the leash. I wonder if more aggressive breeds that are typically penned or on a tether simply go bonkers when faced with the rare opportunity to fend for themselves. Kinda like turning a kid loose in the candy store with a credit card.

Also, I would mention that when I say "cats" I'm not talking about what most think of as a pet house cat that has been adopted or bought from an already domesticated environment. The "yard cats" that live with us chose to do so. There are far more cats on the island that choose not to exist as "domesticated", and do not set up housekeeping with a given human family. Thus, one could offer that a significant part of the cat population on the island is in a preditor/prey environment as part of our ecosystem.

It's a complex issue at best.