Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:50 pm

Enthusiast
Ratty & Reliable 1959 VBA , P125 Engine w/ 166, P200 Primary, 24/24, Sim Pipe
Joined: 10 Apr 2021
Posts: 55
Location: Winder GA
 
Enthusiast
Ratty & Reliable 1959 VBA , P125 Engine w/ 166, P200 Primary, 24/24, Sim Pipe
Joined: 10 Apr 2021
Posts: 55
Location: Winder GA
Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:50 pm linkquote
Pat Symmonds – Formula One Chief Technical Officer – made an unexpected suggestion: to switch from four-stroke to two-stroke engines. Two-stroke engines are actually not new to motorsports, since they have been used before, way back as early as 1926. The two-stroke engines may have been ousted by their four-stroke counterparts, but the two-stroke design has some inherent advantages.

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/the-future-of-formula-one-may-involve-two-stroke-engines-ar193169.html

https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/253485/f1-considering-switch-to-two-stroke-eco-fuelled-engines-for-2025
Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:49 pm

Sponsor
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6956
Location: NWAOK
 
Sponsor
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6956
Location: NWAOK
Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:49 pm linkquote
"Moreover, no F1 team is currently interested in reinventing the F1 engine" pretty much tells you this is as likely as F1 switching to race camels.
Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:35 pm

Petty Tyrant
0:7
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 32475
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
0:7
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 32475
Location: Bay Area, California
Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:35 pm linkquote
Motovista wrote:
"Moreover, no F1 team is currently interested in reinventing the F1 engine" pretty much tells you this is as likely as F1 switching to race camels.
I actually have it on good authority that RedBull is investigating race donkeys.
Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:11 pm

Addicted
2019 Supertech (EURO3/APAC)
Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 542
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 
Addicted
2019 Supertech (EURO3/APAC)
Joined: 17 Nov 2020
Posts: 542
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:11 pm linkquote
jess wrote:
I actually have it on good authority that RedBull is investigating race donkeys.
what's the conversion factor from donkey power to horse power?
Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:20 pm

Petty Tyrant
0:7
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 32475
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
0:7
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 32475
Location: Bay Area, California
Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:20 pm linkquote
steelbytes wrote:
what's the conversion factor from donkey power to horse power?
To convert horsepower to donkeypower, multiply by 4.6. To convert donkeypower to horsepower, multiply by 0.216.

I swear I am not making this up. See: https://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/animalpower.htm

EDIT: I had initially stated the above backwards. The factor was correct, but applied in the wrong direction. Now corrected.

Last edited by jess on Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:00 pm

Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3591
Location: Kingdom of Lanna
 
Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3591
Location: Kingdom of Lanna
Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:00 pm linkquote
Andretti buys Alfa Romeo. Now powered by Detroit diesel?
Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:14 pm

Sponsor
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6956
Location: NWAOK
 
Sponsor
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6956
Location: NWAOK
Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:14 pm linkquote
They can't sell diesels in the US. Everytime you go up a hill in California, you get letters from the DMV that someone reported your car as a major polluter.
Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:42 pm

Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3598
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
 
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3598
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:42 pm linkquote
Electric is going to be big in F1 very soon, much more performance and reliability. Formula 'E' is doing very well now the technicals are under control and battery technology is racing ahead.
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:26 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 7914
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 7914
Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:26 am linkquote
The two-stroke engine is now a subject of study and nothing else ...
F1 is also a test bed for road technology, if you don't have an economic return even in series production you will never waste money to develop what? Moments of glory?
No ... internal combustion engines are ending their career in track racing, the future is electricity.
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:28 am

Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3591
Location: Kingdom of Lanna
 
Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3591
Location: Kingdom of Lanna
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:28 am linkquote
Motovista wrote:
They can't sell diesels in the US. Everytime you go up a hill in California, you get letters from the DMV that someone reported your car as a major polluter.
Sadly that was a more reference to Detroit Diesel being a two-stroke rather than the type of fuel used.
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:38 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 7914
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 7914
Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:38 am linkquote
In fact, two-stroke engines are also diesel but often used for industrial uses.
In a two-stroke diesel, the thermodynamic cycle occurs in a single rotation of the engine shaft. ... The air entering the cylinders, for example in Detroit Diesel, is often further compressed thanks to a volumetric compressor placed precisely between the turbocharger and the combustion chamber

Two-stroke diesel engines were widely used in the first half of the 1900s in the nautical, agricultural, earthmoving, railway, power generators and heavy road transport sectors.
In the agricultural field, for example, the Landini Landinetta (italian small tractor) was the first diesel engine to be used, and it was a two-stroke. We are talking about the 1950s.
Even the Alfa Romeo vans, the heavy Lancia trucks, were equipped with two-stroke engines, rigorously diesel. In earthmoving, the Perlini still continue to operate today.
But above all in America where all heavy wheeled transport was powered by two strokes, with the unmistakable sound of Detroit Diesel.
The main advantage of a two-stroke diesel engine compared to a four-stroke one is that these engines guarantee a delivery of power and torque that the most common four-strokes dream of having ... just think that today they are only used on sports motorboats , just where you need a lot of power.
The reason is very simple: if a four-stroke engine has a production phase every two revolutions of the crankshaft, the two-stroke one has one at every revolution. It is a bit as if, with the same displacement, the power delivered by a two-stroke was double compared to a four-stroke.
Returning to the first half of the 1900s, the two strokes were also used because they were mechanically very simple and reliable, with low maintenance costs. Unfortunately, consumption and above all the high emission of particulate matter into the atmosphere meant that the use of these engines was reduced until they disappeared.
Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:52 am

eeee-bip
BMW R1100RT - The Paperweight Royal Enfield 500 Trials
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 18072
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeee-bip
BMW R1100RT - The Paperweight Royal Enfield 500 Trials
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 18072
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:52 am linkquote
No one is watching Formula E because it doesn't make a noise.

Audi. BMW have left and Mercedes Benz will pull out at the end of 2022 which says a lot.

If Formula 1 switches to 2 Stroke at least they will sound better than they do now.
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:17 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4594
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4594
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:17 am linkquote
Stromrider wrote:
Electric is going to be big in F1 very soon, much more performance and reliability. Formula 'E' is doing very well now the technicals are under control and battery technology is racing ahead.
Performance, yes. Maybe more reliable, a least for the time during a race. But electric cars and bikes do break and when they do, it gets expensive. just sayin'
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:18 am

Molto Verboso
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 1185
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
 
Molto Verboso
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 1185
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:18 am linkquote
jess wrote:
To convert horsepower to donkeypower, multiply by 0.216. To convert donkeypower to horsepower, multiply by 4.6.

I swear I am not making this up. See: https://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/animalpower.htm
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