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@skunkhome avatar
UTC

Hooked
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
 
Hooked
@skunkhome avatar
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
UTC quote
I bought some new tires to put on my BV250. It looked to be a straight forward process but I knew I might be headed into trouble when I broke a T40 wrench trying to take the muffler off the right suspension support arm. I went and bought a new tool and managed to get the upper forward screw broken loose. The other two came out normally. Them I put the high strength 6mm hex key on the upper screw of the support bracket and it broke loose and screwed out about 4-5 turns then tightened up. I tried soaking with penetrating oil and turning it back in a bit it went back in about half to 3/4 turn ans then siezed. Sprayed on some more rust buster and tried easing it out. It turned about 1/4 turn and siezed again. I sprayed it again as well as I could with the bracket in place and ran it in again as far as I could then tried to turn it back out. This time it snapped. I noticed that none of the screws have any sign of anti sieze compound. The cap screw broke off above the surface. Now what do I do?

I noticed that the lug screws on the rear wheel show some rust around the rims. Am I going to have a time with those too?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
⚠️ Last edited by Skunkhome on UTC; edited 2 times
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1229
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
 
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1229
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
UTC quote
Sounds like you're doing the right thing by being patient and working the bolt out. Use that patience to remove the broken bolt with heat and "Channel Lock" to start with and if that doesn't work use an "Easy Out" BEFORE the stub is damaged beyond this approach.
Get a tap and chase the threads where these two bolts come out. Use some "Rapid Tap"lubrication to let the tap do its job of cleaning/straightening the threads.
Replace the bolts with new stainless steel if you can. Use some bolt lubricant when you put the bolts in AND torque the bolts to the correct spec'.
Sorry but this is the only way I know to properly repair these kinds of issues. It sounds like someone overtightened the bolts last time there were installed and/or you live in a very wet place with salt(?) on the roads.
Don't worry too much about the wheel nuts. They'll probably come out okay. Be patient and use the correct tools.
Good luck and be sure to torque all the fasteners and use some lube to leave yourself a nice job for next time.
All the widgets I mention above can be purchased at an Ace Hardware store.
OP
@skunkhome avatar
UTC

Hooked
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
 
Hooked
@skunkhome avatar
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
UTC quote
It feels like it is galled because it broke loose and turned then seized up. The bolt hole is a blind hole but appears to have nothing on the backside. I have a b and new set of vice grips but I honestly don't think there is enough bolt sticking our to get a good purchase. I an leaning toward carefully drilling the center out with a good left handed drill and hope that relieving internal tension ans heat and lube will free it up. As for the second question I just went back out and checked the lug screws and they broke free as they are supposed to. Wheel is off now I have only one thing to worry about.
@silver_streak avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8758
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@silver_streak avatar
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8758
Location: Annapolis, MD, USA
UTC quote
If you have access to a MIG welder, you can thread a nut onto the stub and then tack weld it to the stub to give you a hex head to get a wrench on.
OP
@skunkhome avatar
UTC

Hooked
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
 
Hooked
@skunkhome avatar
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
UTC quote
Silver Streak wrote:
If you have access to a MIG welder, you can thread a nut onto the stub and then tack weld it to the stub to give you a hex head to get a wrench on.
I have a MIG welder. What would I need to do other than disconnect battery to protect scooter electronics. The heat concentrated on the screw might break it loose from aluminum.
@rrider avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Triumph Bonneville 2022, Triumph Street Scrambler 2018 (sold), Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
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Location: Finland
 
Ossessionato
@rrider avatar
Triumph Bonneville 2022, Triumph Street Scrambler 2018 (sold), Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
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Location: Finland
UTC quote
+1 to SVTLVR tips.

I used to tinker with a Honda from 80's. I actually got tired with this same thing happening all the time - kind of knew to wait for the "snap" sound if I decided work with a previously unworked part of the bike.

A bit of heat does often wonders (I used to turn to my friend who had a gas wellding gear). If this did not work, then I thrilled the screw away, cleaned away the old screw threats and used the traditional manual tools to "drill" new threats with just a bit larger diameter etc. With normal bolts this was OK, but I can still remember hearing the snap from a specially designed bolt of the valve adjustment cover...I strongly believe there was something weird with the metal parts of that bike, haven't faced this problem with a similar magnitude since.
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@skunkhome avatar
UTC

Hooked
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
 
Hooked
@skunkhome avatar
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
UTC quote
Thanks everyone for the input. I got it done!
Well, I started out center punching and then through drilled it with 1/8" bit. Then worked my way up to 13/64" and tried an easy out. As I had suspected the bolt was as if welded together. I was afraid I'd break the easy out and then be up the creek without a paddle. I decided to drill one more time with 1/4" drill. I figured if I screwed up the threads I'd just rebore and tap for a 9mm screw. I then took a pin drift and ground the end at a 45° angle and used it and a hammer to grab the threads and collapsed them into the center hole. External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
The threads Got a little bit boogered but I chased than with a tap and they cleaned up pretty well. I decided to replace the cap screws with studs so I bought 65mm long bolts and cut the threads to full length. Boy, cutting threads in 8.8 Grade bolts is a chore. I installed the studs with blue Locktite and am ready to go.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

For now I'm using washer nuts. Should I use nuts with lock washers or use self locking nuts with nylon inserts?
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@skunkhome avatar
UTC

Hooked
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
 
Hooked
@skunkhome avatar
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
UTC quote
I got the rear tire changed today and even managed to get it balanced using a Harbor Freight tire balancer. Ive read unfavorable reviews about the Harbor Freight motorcycle tire balancer but mine had a straight axle and was sensative enough to give accurate balancing. On the rear wheel I had to pull the hub off the scooter and remount the wheel so that it could be mounted on the balancer shaft. Next is the front. It is supposed to be straight forward also.
@web-tech avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni, 2008 Vespa S150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8954
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@web-tech avatar
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni, 2008 Vespa S150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8954
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
UTC quote
How long were you waiting for the penetrating oil to do it's job? It doesn't take just a few minutes, it can take days to work. Next time start spraying nuts and bolts the week before you start the work.
⬆️    About 7 months elapsed    ⬇️
OP
@skunkhome avatar
UTC

Hooked
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
 
Hooked
@skunkhome avatar
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
UTC quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
How long were you waiting for the penetrating oil to do it's job? It doesn't take just a few minutes, it can take days to work. Next time start spraying nuts and bolts the week before you start the work.
I'm extremely cautious with steel in aluminum. I did use penetrating oil and tapped on bolts for days prior to attempting to break the bolts, once the top bolt broke loose it turned easily 1/2 way out then siezed tight despite the lube. The bottom bolt was no problem at all. There won't be an issue next time because it's steel on steel. Steel nuts on steel studs.
⚠️ Last edited by Skunkhome on UTC; edited 2 times
@oopsclunkthud avatar
UTC

Banned
3:5
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Location: San Francisco
 
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@oopsclunkthud avatar
3:5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9044
Location: San Francisco
UTC quote
I'd go with nyloc flange nuts. I think I'll put studs in the next time I have mine apart.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#99908a102/=132ko3f
OP
@skunkhome avatar
UTC

Hooked
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
 
Hooked
@skunkhome avatar
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
UTC quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
I'd go with nyloc flange nuts. I think I'll put studs in the next time I have mine apart.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#99908a102/=132ko3f
I changed to nylock nuts over flat washers about a week after making the conversion.
OP
@skunkhome avatar
UTC

Hooked
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
 
Hooked
@skunkhome avatar
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
UTC quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
I'd go with nyloc flange nuts. I think I'll put studs in the next time I have mine apart.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#99908a102/=132ko3f
I changed to nylock nuts about a week after making the conversion.
OP
@skunkhome avatar
UTC

Hooked
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
 
Hooked
@skunkhome avatar
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
UTC quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
How long were you waiting for the penetrating oil to do it's job? It doesn't take just a few minutes, it can take days to work. Next time start spraying nuts and bolts the week before you start the work.
there won't be an issue next time because it's steel on steel. steel studs and steel nuts.
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