Modern Vespa

Hi guys a chap was asking on the other side for a traditional ,really wanted a vintage vespa but didn't feel comfortable wrenching ,all manor of suggestions were put forward and rightly so but there seems to be implication that a brand new px125cc or the px engine in general is a high maintenance low reliability scooter ,this goes against the info i,ve gathered and even the tech
said as standard bulletproof little engines don't give many problems,compared to some of the other vespas
i would have loved a vintage vespa but actually bought my px because its a classic looking vespa but with modern upgrades,i know its slow unrefined no aerodynamics twist gears foot brake ect but that engine in some form or another has been around for ever ............ unreliable?
what are your thoughts?
george

I've gotten the feeling that a majority of people who are buying vespas later in life AND who have no experience wrenching will always be terrified of shifting scooters and you should just go let them buy a twist and go. There's a few exceptions, but most of the time it's pointless to argue.

Hi mate i just think it's a shame that they won't get the fun and the ride you get with the twist gears ,footbrake ect my mate a life long
big bike rider has owned twist and goes but never ridden a twist gears ,the px,s classic hands on ride has completely changed his attitude to scooters ,he absolutely loves it and it's almost entirely down to the
the idiosyncratic skills needed to ride it ,and being 2 stroke was the clincher lol

there's actually something rewarding about smooth gear changing and foot braking and that clatter that's not listed in the advertisement ,but has its own value,it might be a bit of an old man thing with the need for more involvement to give you a more integrated feeling and silly things like the flywheel ,visible moving engine parts ,lol

i'm really very pleased i went with the new px now, the primavera was probably a superior scooter but would have just left me cold,the vespa 2 stroke engine i would argue has a wonderful reputation for reliability but for some reason old now gets lumped in with unreliable,having had vintage bikes that have survived still running with 40 odd years of abuse and i have tools from my father's workshop infinitely better quality than modern equivalent !!!!!!!!

i would never suggest a 125cc vespa 2 stroke a good choice for motorways computing ,but around town reliable engaging vintage vespa ride i think it's unbeatable,and the bit that really surprises me is its brand new cdi ignition electric start with 2 year warranty, what wrenching.............

george

Standard PX engines are actually very reliable. It's when people start modifying them that they become more temperamental. If properly looked after they are good for high mileage.

Ive spoke with george previously on another thread and on this i totally agree with him im a brand new roder on the new mod scene and the feel of the px the originality of it and the sheer fact the shift gears scared the living hell out of me made me want it more. Twist and go is no fun i tried and frankly was bored after 10 minutes of riding the px is fun and looks as cool as you can get.

the vespa px isnt a mod scooter,the mod era was in the 60s

a lot of scooterists dont class the px as a classic scooter,it was modern shite 30 years ago just like the gts but the camo wearing scooterboys took the px under there wing in the 80s and it exploded into a huge rally scene...Utah anyone?

Yeh sorry muat blame my parents for me not being born till the 90's its the closest most reliable scooter i could get..

Just letting you know a little history about your px

Mod culture was long gone when the px was at its peak,its just the born again fancy dress brigade who think its a mod scooter

Hi i don't personally see any scooter as being a mod scooter,none were built specifically for the music fashion culture, thats like saying a harley is just for biker gangs or a 125cc is for boy racers only ,my brother in law was a part of the mod revival and had several scooters vespa,s and lambrettas,i don't think his love of the suits and bikes music was any less valid than the 60s,and i was told the biggest sales spurt for vespa was audrey hepburn in roman holiday 50s,

i think thats the nice thing about the diversity of bikes and owners you just cant just match them ,me a px 125 owner but from a vintage and sports bike background,i think i fell in love on a run at speeds i couldn't achieve if a threw throw my px from a plane overtaken by a crazy girl on a ducati 916........

the vast majority of scooter owners are not mods,and most morgan owners are not
journalists but if some journalists have morgans are all morgans journalist cars?

having seen first hand my brother in laws vintage custom lambretta it was a work of art, i personally don't like customisation, but quality is quality a brand new px mod style tastefully done is in my humble opinion ,infinitely better that than a crap hand painted 60s one,don't believe all you read about the joys of the sixties .....i was there......... people in general smell a lot better now lol
george

I agree, the PX(200) is not a real classic!

compared to, say a vintage motorcycle, or a classic car? yes, they are low manintance.

compared to a Honda civic or a new automatic? hell no.

yeh i get that thanks your missinh the point here its the closest i could get look wise to the old school ones that would be reliable enough to get me to work each day aswell as be a project to do up.

A significant majority of the "maintenance" on a shifty Vespa is pure and simple voluntary tinkering. A significant portion of the remaining "maintenance" is as a direct result of that voluntary tinkering.

I've been riding the damn things since 1958. Had a 1962 VNB that I rode regularly for 41 years, amongst several others. Now have a 2006 PX 150. Loved every last one of them, and never found one to be a maintenance problem. There is this obscure thing call the Owner Manual. Service it as specified and ride it as specified and it will be reliable.

Scooterboys wouldn't have existed but for mod revival, it's what came a couple of years later (heavily influenced by 60's music)

youths getting into the mod scene now are more likely to ride a PX with Weller on the panels than a GS, in other words, they're reviving the late 70's / early 80's scene

when I got into it in 1979, there weren't many 60's scooters about, it was more Rallys, Supers, Spanish Jets and lots of PX's, so in my book, the PX was a mod scooter, just not a 60's mod scooter

Yeh i agree with that totally

I started with vintage before twisties were available. I bought a GTS in 2010 because I wanted something that would go 75mph comfortably. If they made a shifty that would do that I would have one. Yes, I know it can be done but not without extensive modifications and jet work. And you lose reliability and fuel mileage. I've put 32,000 miles on my GTS and about half of that on various vintage bikes. The GTS never had a single problem until it dropped a valve and had to have the head replaced. That required more work than all the repairs that I have done on all my vintage bikes combined. Generally, they are very reliable, though. Of course they do require regular belt changes. The majority, but certainly not all Modern Vespa owners could not adjust a shift or clutch cable, much less replace one. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Some people are just not mechanically inclined. Many change their own oil but a broken cable would mean a call to the tow truck driver and a $100 bill at the mechanic's shop. Also, believe it or not some people like automatics.

I totally agree

If i were to ask you the question,

I would like to buy a new but traditional style vespa scooter, really want a vintage one but don't want a lot of wrenching,it's not for commuting just for pootling around the town, so no motorways i can only ride a 125cc

what would you suggest ticking the most boxes and bearing in mind a brand new vespa comes with a two year unlimited mileage warranty with breakdown cover?

george



quote (I agree, the PX(200) is not a real classic!)

I don't care what people say the px200 is an absolute classic and i want one

so its not a real one is it its not a problem its just a fact. ask anyone about mods and rockers and they will say 60s......

when people in the know see a certain style of vespa px they say 'thats a true 80s style scooter'

thats because it was an 80s scooter,iconic within the scooterboy ranks

mod revival? is that what you call it




do you think a brand new vespa gs or sprint would be reliable?

I would say more maintenance intensive than unreliable. My family owned FIATs and Lancia's in the 70s/80s. They where known as unreliable. If you had a good mechanic, knew what to upgrade and knew to be anal about maintenance they where bullet proof. in fact my Dad's first Lancia was driven to central america. Driven there for a year and driven back. Then became my brothers for another 5-6. When he stopped regular maintenance is when gremlins came out.

I'm not disputing the fact that the PX was a popular scooterboy workhorse in the 80's (along with the T5 later on), but the PX came out in 1977, long before scooterboys, and was adopted by mod revivalists (look at how many PX's there are on Quadrophenia which came out in 1979).

So although it's not the sort of thing I'd be doing now, I wouldn't belittle someone who rode a PX and professed to being a 'mod' coz I did that 35 years ago along with thousands of others

who are these people and what do they know? i,m no authority on this but i was living in kentish town at the time and it was very popular great clothes bikes ,don't care for the music much but it was a revival,often went to clubs pubs with my brother in law,i had a gt750 so took the piss a bit lol but it was a valid movement

yes not honda reliable but yes,and i say that with no experience of owning one ,so why then do people presume a brand new modern electrics px isn't, ............................biggest problems i,ve ever had on vintage bikes bloody electrics now that is a sensible answer,

but if it comes with a 2year unlimited warranty what difference does it make,in the two years of owning any of the new vespas your covered,and if you haven't learned simple maintenance in 2 years you should not be allowed to own a bike
100% joys of youth

every ,mod, rocker ,punk ect i ever known ,now has two kids a mortgage ,love handles and drives a car let the guy enjoy that wonderful time of belonging and being a part of something,its all down hill after that
george

Warranty is a mute point to the majority of old school scooterists in USA. Piaggio pulled out in 81/82 and sold a handful of PX150E on east coast. So warranty means nothing. It was you wrench or not. My first Vespa I sold as it ran but needed electrical work and I had no clue. Once I got my second I started figuring it out.
Now when you buy second hand / regardless of condition you're buying someone else's problems are issues. So for a newbie trying to chase things down makes it an unreliable experience.

once again an excellent point and if the chap had been buying secondhand totally agree ........but the chap in question was buying brand new in the Uk with full warranty ,i,m not trying to be contentious the advice i got on here deciding on a vespa model was invaluable and things like the fun of changing gear and a more engaging ride ,were spot on and i,m really grateful they were actually conveyed to me ,but they are ignored or just dismissed in the general advice, it feels like the px is the ugly sister ,i personally love the quirky px but i don't think prospective brand new vespa buyers get an idea of the unique pleasures of riding a proper geared 2 stroke scooter,my mates bike bike nut is buying one had twist and goes not interested,but my little px completely different ,it might also be partly an age thing need to be more involved ,less ps4 lol

george

Your average hipster doesn't want to change gears much less work on it himself. They just want the name and basic Vespa lines. It's funny - my buddy put his
P200 up for sale years back. Custom paint, kitted motor etc etc. very nice scoot and reliable as hell. It ended up being on the market for 2 years as every one who came was a hipster and for some reason thought it was a new twist n go because the ad said Vespa!! Even worse eve the found out you had to work on it and ad oil to gas !!!

perfect reply that nails it.............. no perceived value in the journey, just the destination


I cook and peel my prawns not only because they taste so much better but there is a pleasure and reward in the act itself,pre cooked pre peeled prawns taste crap
but if you don't get to try the former you will never know the difference lol
george

I think a huge part of it is that when you get a 30 year old bike, stuff breaks. But - the damn part was THIRTY YEARS OLD. So people see parts failing and breaking and needing replacement and think "man those old things are pieces of poo", but... in truth, they are machines that lasted 30 (or more!) years before some of this stuff kicked the bucket. Some of these parts... if you replace them you reasonably might not expect to touch it again for ages.

an excellent point well made

the PX was always synonymous with reliability, the workhorse of the rally going scooterist, and rarely did you see them on the side of the road, unless the rider was having a fag whilst waiting for mates on broken down lammys

changing a busted gear or clutch cable is no different (apart from being easier) than changing a busted belt on a modern twisty, but I've had to change more belts over the years than I have cables

time will tell whether we see many GTS's riding round in 20 or 30 years time..

xantufrog,fleece ..................guys both excellent posts ,it really is more about perception than reality ,i think you've answered the question ,its just a shame that it might put some people off ,a classic geared 2 stroke vespa ride
george