Modern Vespa

I'm a prospective scooter buyer! However, now in my mid 60's, I don't need a scooter for commuting - it'll just be for fun and, hopefully, for putting on the back of my motorhome (when I purchase it next year).

My partner and I are caravanners but want to get into motorhoming. However, because of the large size of these things, another set of wheels is required.

I haven't got my bike licence (only my car) and want a scooter which I can carry a pillion! I had a high powered Yamaha bike in my teens (YG1 80cc lol) and even more powerful Suzuki in my early 40's (90cc lol)

Having looked at 3 wheelers (for safety and licence reasons) I like the Swiss Quadro4 (£8500) but as it's over 250kg it's probably too heavy for the back of a motor home. So is the Piaggio MP3 500 abs.

The Mp3 Yourban LT 300 is a possibility but my son (he commutes to work on his scooter) spotted an Adiva AD3 in London and after some research this has got my interest.

I can't find any UK dealers but if you know of one then please let me know. There are lots of dealers in France. The nearest is Dieppe.

So, any advice, comments or info would be much appreciated. I've got a thick skin so I can take it! lol

I used to have a (2 wheeled) Benelli Adiva back in the day, and the only dealer I knew about who sold them was Harry Nash in SW London. They don't appear to have a website, but this : https://www.google.co.uk/#q=harry+nash+motorcycles+%26+scooters should get you to a phone number.

Nice guy. Owner-managed store. Maybe worth a phone call?

Good luck.

(Based on my ownership of the old style Adiva, the only thing I'd say is that the roof was a bit low for a 6ft 2in person with helmet on. You tended to "ring the bell" if you went over a bump too fast. But I'm sure things have changed since then (about a dozen years ago). The other problem was that so few of them were sold that it would have been a problem finding replacement parts, especially bodywork (the engine in those days was a generic one - I think it may have even been a Piaggio engine, but can't remember for sure).

Thanks Benelli Boy. However, sadly it appears that Harry Nash is no longer in business. I tried the telephone number and got one of those tones that tell you it's dead. I also went on Google street view and saw his now vacant premises. So, I may have to polish up my French! lol

I understand the desire to take a scooter along for short range transport while using a motorhome. I did not understand from your post, why you want it to be a 3-wheel vehicle. The extra weight and cost work against you for this application.

Looks like it's a 300cc scoot. Still if the weight is 350-400 lbs plus the hitch (200lbs?) it is going to be a lot of tongue weight on the hitch. You would need a larger motorhome (diesel pusher) with a class 4 or 5 hitch to safely do it.

Oh cobblers! Sorry about that. Good luck in your search.

Here in the UK we don't need to take a bike test to ride certain 3 wheel scooters, I can do it on a car licence. Also, I can take a passenger.

My passenger (in her 70's) is keen that we get a 3 wheeler as she thinks (and I agree with her) that it will be safer than a 2 wheeler.

However, I take the point about weight as a 300cc (Piaggio mp3 LT and Adiva AD3) is around 200kg and a 500cc (Piaggio MP3 500) is over 250kg.

The Yamaha Tricity with a smaller engine and lower weight has 3 wheels but is not classified for car licence holders due to the less space between the wheels. I would have to take the driving test before I could carry a passenger.

the adiva isn't for car licence but a Motorbike

better look for a second hand mp3 quadro or Peugeot

the tricity is a motorbike due to the change in laws in Europe the space between the wheel is wider then the mp3 but Yamaha Europe did not get it cleared as a trike was to expensive and most EU contries you can drive a 12 on a b class driverlicenses

That's really helpful Maksor. I'll check that out. Thanks

The AD3 isn't sold in England as far as I know, but there is a strong community in Singapore if that's of any use ..

I own two old-school Benelli Adivas and can confirm that it would be very snug for two people on one of them and I would imagine that the AD3 would be the same.

I haven't heard anything about the AD3 being modified for use with a driver's licence in the same way that the LT version of the mp3 has either.

Its a pity that they don't sell the AD3 in England, but roofed scooters have never taken off despite the wet cold winters..

There has been quite a bit of discussion on this site about the relative safety of the MP3 versus conventional scooters. Certainly it is easier to park and it has good traction when cornered aggressively. Those don't, however, sound like what you are seeking. You, or a least your partner, appear to believe that they are more stable and easier to balance. While that is an advantage of a rigid trike, it is really not an advantage of the MP3 and other 3-wheel scooters with a leaning suspension.

I'm sorry, but your statement is wrong !!

the Adiva AD3 behaves with the car license, I however not known whether it is imported in UK

See the Pdf in French => http://www.adivafrance.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/AD3_ADIVA.pdf

The PDF says that you can drive the AD3 with Permis B driving licence. This licence is only applicable in France, not the rest of Europe. For a 3-wheeler to be driven on UK roads with a car licence the front wheels must be wider than 50 cm apart and have a footbrake. I don't see anywhere that the AD3 has that.

How are you doing with 46.5 cm spacing on MP3

You have to have a full motorcycle licence unless it's either a 125cc, or its an LT version which spaces the wheels out to 50 cm and has a footbrake.

46.5 it must be wider then 46.4 the RL motorbike is 41.5

A Quadro has 52 and the Peugeot 49.5

The adiva is a 125cc right then you can ride it in France

Correct, the bikes/trikes with engines up to 125cc can be driven in certain countries in Europe with the B (car) license. Sadly not in UK. Nor in Sweden...

This is not to be confused with the EU regulation which allows trikes (and quads) with 46.4cm wheel spacing (left/right), a foot brake, position (or DRL) lights and certain spacing between blinkers (left/right) to be ridden by holders of the car license only.

Furthermore, IIRC the car license must be issued December 2012 or earlier, otherwise you would need an A (motorbike) license for the above. This because the EU decided to abandon the "bike with a car license"-regulation, but could not do it retroactively.

And for the OP, the Tricity dealers, at least in Sweden, are working on making this fine little trike converted to meet the EU regulation for the car license holders. Solutions similar to what Piaggio had to do back in 2007 when MP3 was launched (addition of spacers, footbrakes and blinkers) are discussed. This info is from the Yamaha reps on this year's Stockholm motorbike exhibition. Once this is done, I guess this would be just the bike you are looking for.

Since making enquiries both with a dealer in France, Adiva France and Adiva head office, I've had someone from Adiva Italy offer to ship me one from the EU HQ in Italy.

I responded to his email by asking the question about licencing and he replied:

Hi David

thanks for your email

yes, you can ride our AD3 300 with you car licence.

Regards

Obviously, I need to check this out further.

On the subject of the Yamaha I would be quite keen if that was available without a bike licence (using my car licence to carry a pillion).

I've today asked the local Yamaha dealer about the advertised ABS version. Apparently it's not available just yet but as he's going to the NEC bike show he's going to ask Yamaha about it.

We speaks about AD3 (300 cc.)

The brake pedal is present as the Piaggio MP3 LT, I maintain that it meets the same requirements as 500 lt.......

How much did they want for an AD3 shipped to the UK? Would it be a grey import?

I'm about to email Adiva and ask the price so I'll post their response when I get it.

I'm also asking if there's any difference in spec between an AD3 direct from Italy and one from a French dealer. I vaguely remember reading that the French importer had requested a change. What that is I don't remember.

On the subject of the Tricity: I've read that in the UK (since 2013) only a disabled person can take a riding test on a 3 wheeler. If this is confirmed then it means that I'll have to learn on a 2 wheeler while owning a 3 wheeler. Is this mad or what? lol

Back to the AD3: Warranty is an issue with an import as I have no local dealer to go to if problems arise. O course, I can always find someone local who'll try and fix it for me but it will be at my cost, I guess!

Whether this import is regarded as "grey" I don't know. However, there is no official importer here in the UK and the person I'm dealing with is their Export Manager. So, I don't think this transaction could be described as "grey"! "Unusual", yes!

Wikipedia says: Grey import vehicles are new or used motor vehicles and motorcycles legally imported from another country through channels other than the maker's official distribution system. The synonymous term parallel import is sometimes substituted.

I am still not tracking this discussion, the AD3 tips the scales at over 225 kg (similar to the Yuorban). That means it is damned heavy to carry on a bumper rack. And it is a leaning 3-wheeler like the MP3, which means that it is not any easier to balance while maneuvering at low speeds than a comparable two wheeled scooter - and that is especially true while riding two up.

If Adiva AD3 is really your choice, in case of an engine problem Kymco dealer can help you .... (it is the same engine).

Pending an official importer in UK

I am very grateful for all the responses from you experienced scooter guys.

While checking things out I've always been impressed with the message that 3 wheels means more security and ease of handling.

But as I have nil experience I'm only going on what I've seen in the various videos and sales pages.

I'm particularly keen to buy a scooter that will make taking a passenger easier and safer.

However, this may not be true - just as Dooglas, for example, has suggested.

What's your take on 3 wheels with a passenger? Is it going to be a problem?

Where are you in London, if anywhere near NW5, or fancy a trip, I'm happy to show you my Fuoco and Benelli Adiva so you can get an idea of what's what.

PM me if that's of interest.

(Benelli Adiva isn't running at the moment, but that's another story).

Des

My point (as you have probably gathered) is that 300-500cc 3-wheelers like the MP3 (and AD3) are heavy and not particularly easy to balance or maneuver at lower speeds. Before you go too far with this, I think you need to do a couple of test rides and see for yourself. Perhaps take desq up on his offer.

Sorry for the delay in replying to your great offer Desq.

And thanks too for the wise advice Dooglas.

With my nil experience I had, obviously wrongly, assumed the 3 wheels meant safer riding. All the videos and sales stuff I had watched/read seemed to suggest this but clearly this was without taking into account a passenger and other things like the weight... and my inexperience.

I have a local Piaggio dealer about a mile away so it'll probably be best if I pay him another visit - and do the test ride, as you suggest.

I also have a dealer about 3 or 4 miles away who has the Quadro4 in stock. When I visited him a few weeks ago, he didn't want me to take it out for a ride but he did offer me a test on the Quadro 3.

So, thanks again Desq. You are very kind in offering me a test on your scooter but as I've got these dealers so close it makes sense to take them up on their offer instead.

And thanks again Dooglas.

Hi David,

Did you get any response from Adiva? I am in the market too for a 3 wheel and if the AD3 is not available in the UK I will get an MP3.

Let me know if you received a reply from them.

Thanks

Hi Edo72,

They have offered me one shipped from Italy at the list price (6,499 euros) plus around 500 euros for shipping.

Alternatively, you can get one from the nearest dealer in Dieppe, France

http://www.moto-passion-59.com/achat/index.php?catid=207

I asked the export manager of Adiva the following questions and immediately under each question is his reply.


1) If I purchase from your EU HQ in Italy was is the cost? Will I have to pay further duties or VAT?

yes, if you do not have a company with EU resgistration, we need to invoice with VAT.

2) Is any assembly (or other work) required when it arrives and how difficult do you think this will this be for me?

easy, unit will be fully assembled, cost of transportation will be expensive, around 500 EUR

3) I have previously been in touch with a dealer in Dieppe, France. Is there any difference in the spec of the AD3 from Italy to an AD3 from France?

same model, same origin

4) Will it come with all the documentation that I need to register the scooter. For example, a European Certificate of Conformity and a certificate of Mutual Recognition?

We will supply the unit with COC, so easy to register.

So with an exchanger rate of 1.3r euro to the pound, import duty at 6% and VAT ar 20% you're looking at roughly £6600.

Looking on ebay you could get a new or low mileage MP3 or Metropolis for between £5k and £7k.

A plus side with the MP3 or Metropolis is that they would be easier to sell on if you don't get on with it. An Adiva may be a harder sell.

Might be a harder sell, but possibly there might be one or two people in England who would be very keen to get their hands on an AD3 without the hassle of importing it.

The spares for the Kymco engine shouldn't be too much of a hassle I'd imagine, but any other spares might prove more of an issue. Hopefully with a fairly new model you wouldn't need many non-service parts..

The Singaporeans have had a lot more experience with the AD3 than anybody in the UK, if anybody is interested in getting one of these bikes its well worth reading.

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/373063-Adiva-ad3

On page 3 this guy "Andre" posts an interesting first hand review posted below..

After more then a week with ADtre, just like to share some of my amateur experience of the scooter.
I have not much experience on scooters, this is only my 3rd one. (1st AD150, rode for about 3 years, 2nd AD200, rode for about 6 months)

1) Build,
The build quality as expected, similar to AD200; lot of plastic, flimsy roof panel, uneven gaps between joints, trunk box and glove compartment, rusty metal parts and screws; yes, even brand new bike from factory. I spotted rust at mirror support, side & main stand, panel screws. I applied a lot of rust converter for my previous AD150 & AD200, therefore, will expect to use a lot rust converter on this bike too later.
Other defects; missing main stand rubber stopper, air vent lourver blade linkage missing, loose mirror, loose trunk box locking hook, loose exhaust cover bolts, even loose front wheels lock nuts.

2) Ride

Turn on ignition, took a few cranks before the engine fired up. Very quiet engine compare to previous ADs.
Bring the bike down from main stand is painful, in my opinion, the main stand is poorly design; it is too short, bring down the bike from main stand is not easy even I'm very experience with heavy bike. (I'd sprained my back few days ago, ouch.). The bike weight 215 kg according to the vehicle register.

On the move, (have not try hard acceleration yet, will try it after the engine run-in ) but judging from pulling away from traffic light and leave other smaller bikes/cars behind, I'm feel the power is adequate for this 300cc engine.
(Briefly tested the 200cc in carpark, found the power is not that bad. May be will test it on highway one day to compare.)

The front suspension is firm and the ride is stiff and bumpy as compare to Piaggio MP3. Be-careful when ride on bumpy road, the roof shelter dislodge from the windshield once I landed hard over a hump. The latches of the roof only hold the roof horizontally but not vertically.
The seat cushion is much more comfortable compare to AD200. But the short foot rest is a little uncomfortable. The sitting position is upright but not uncomfortable.But at this sitting position, the signal, high beam indicators are blocked by the handle bar, need to lean forward to check the indicator lights. On highway, I'll sit back to the edge of driver seat so that I can stretch my legs. Overall, the ride comfort is acceptable to me. Turning radius is wide, need 2 lanes space to make a U-turn (same as car, lol.).

The engine is quiet and I had ran up to 100km/h without realizing it in a few occasions. Not much noise and vibration at this speed and the bike still quite stable. For AD200, the vibration will be felt when the speed is above 90km/h.

The ride is much more windy compare to AD150 & AD200. The wind will hit on the lower leg and raise to your body. Your won't feel as hot as compare to previous AD (but ride in the rain is another story. ).
In slow ride, the legs can feel the engine heat, probably is the hot air from the lower vent behind the radiator fan. The radiator temperature always hovering near 100 deg C, something always worry me. The cooling fan only cut in when the gauge shows the temperature above 100 deg C.

Agility is as good as AD200, not much problem in lane splitting as I rides during peak hours daily. Just be careful when passing commercial vehicles as the side mirrors almost at the same height.

3) Riding in the rain

Main improvement is on the windshield; the side deflector is built-in. No more problem like AD150 & AD200 that water drip from the gaps between side deflector and windshield to the hands.
AD3 maintain the same weather protection for upper body as AD200 but minimum for lower legs. As mentioned before, the wind will enter from the lower leg. So while riding in the rain, the cold wind along with rain water will hit your legs below the knees. The short front wheel fenders does not stop the water hitting the front fairing and water will splash to the feet and lower leg. The pillion is worst, even the thighs area will be wet too. This is my major disappointment of Ad3.

4) Fuel consumption

1st refill at 243km. 10 liter to the brim (almost can not close the cap, lol).

From what I understand the price of the AD3 is 6499 euros including VAT.

http://www.moto-passion-59.com/achat/produit_details.php?id=1566

I also uderstand that when you import a motor vehicle you have to pay VAT to HMRC and then they issue you with a certificate so that you can claim a refund of the VAT you paid to the dealer.

I don't believe there is any import duty to pay for imports from within the EU.

https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/vat-and-tax-vehicles-from-within-the-eu

I also understand there is a 2016 400cc Adiva 3 coming out in the spring with a Peugeot engine