Modern Vespa

I have a friend in Bali that wants to restore PX150's , & ship them to Aust for me to sell...
Yeah, yeah dodgy-bodgy VBB's are a plenty... But later ones are still not bodged.
My concerns are... Well... They are from some country known to be bodgy, so what makes these any different?

What makes it any different to others?
Suppose its coz an Aussie who likes Vespas is in control at the other end sourcing the scoots & parts, as well as 'quality control'.
The cheesy common accessories will be ditched, a lot of style may be influenced by me (the sane boring side of me anyway).
The body will be, well, hopefully a good one, without wildlines & made from 3 knackered scoots & an old car bonnet.
The motors would be standard, but ready for extras (ie ported for probably a DR177) 24/24 carb blah blah, with As many internals as possible to be replaced.

Not making 50km lifespan scoots, rather a good looking budget classic reliable Vespas that people can actually work on rather than curse at.
Im not interested in crap scoots, as cant stand the standard bodge & would hate for something with my name on it apoearing in "Bodgespotting".

So is this worth pursuing?

id stick with nz imports mate



see how i said mate, i really hate people calling me "mate"



i dont want to see any more indonesian scoots here.



see how i used a full stop there mate.

Chur bro, i hear ya.

I know a bloke who did the same thing. He oversaw the restos himself while he lived there. I checked the bikes out. Not too bad. Not your usual bodges. Kept most of the original features eg. 8" wheels on the supers. Despite all this, he can't move them, he's got about 30 or so and is only asking $3000 for them. The bodge factor is never a good selling point, no matter how well the are restored.

That was kinda my concern.
I cant shift oddballs from NZ currently!
Id be interested in chatting to seller.

The big Q,how much are you going to be making off your fellow scooterists?

Only one reason why anyone wants to do the restoring in low wage countrys,if it was for the love of vespa it would be done properly in your own country imo

You keep this well hidden!!!

I think this is risky, the bodge factor is v strong, even against your finely honed salesmanship. You could always start with 1 or 2 and see how you go...

"Would YOU buy a bodge off ME?"

That's a difficult question to answer when almost everyone here buys cheap and fix it up themselves. Adding the bodge factor and that it's only a P just makes the question more difficult to get a bias answer.

You'd probably do better just bringing over some of those good, un-knackered, reasonably-priced PX150 bodies for people to restore as their own projects.

that sure is an option... & it is my preferred option ( usually only ever buy 'original, complete, unrestored')...
but there is a local market for restored (damn Hipsters & Fashionesta).
but a baremetal panel & paint for under $500 sure is a bucketload cheaper than the local version... my paint alone was worth more than that.

& to have someone build a motor for under $100 ($300-$400 incl parts) is surely cheaper than getting it done locally..

If only I could pay a local $2-$4 p/hr in wages I could get it all done here!.

BUT, possibly a restored motor & orig body is the go (ie my preferred option).

I'm pretty sure most of you would not be interested in a pretty restored scoot, which I accept, & it would need to be accompanied by lots of photos to back-up the quality etc...

Most people will think "yes but how much will it cost to have it done properly 3 months later?"

I can just see your reputation among the small scooter community looking a bit patina'd in a short time.

"but there is a local market for restored (damn Hipsters & Fashionesta)"

So you want to rip them off?

Ease up. He's not aiming to rip anybody off. He said he wants to offer reliable, reasonably-priced, restored scoots.

no need to ease up its just a Q

reasonably priced???

Reliable????

Could you explain?

a PX goes for about $3500-5500+
a VBB bodgy goes for about $4500-8500 (no idea why sellers this these are worth more)
I want to sell a PX-'bodge' for about $3000-4500, with support, history & some type of warranty on workmanship & motor reliability (something like 1000-2000km or 12 months, excl cables & seizes coz they are idiots & forgot the oil).
I'm not interested in selling 'Cafe Displays', as would keep them so I can VespaCross them, I prefer to sell scoots that people can ride & use as a good started to get into the local scene (without embarrassment) , or to go get a latte.

They would be sold with well over 5km on the clock... & I would be the 'tester', so if it survives a thrashing from me, it will survive riding by the buyer!
As Ginchi pointed out, I am known in the local 'scene' & do buy/sell... so don't want to patina the reputation I have built.

your prices are both aspirational


both

A brand new LML 2 stroke star is $3950 through Gasoline. Surely that is better value than a bodge for the same price?

I think the 'new user' market for vintage scooters is pretty small. I mean, for those people who know how to ride, maintain, and fix them - already have scoots (and projects)
The Vintage motorcycle market on the other hand seems to be going gangbusters. There seems like a fair bit of $$$ around for said hipsters and fashionista, and Mid-life crisis blokes to drop on a dodgy old Triumph, BSA, or Yamaha. Are there any good old motorbikes in Indo?

your going to thrash them before you sell them

ok

Agreed, if you could import classic motorcycles for hipsters to chop up, you'd have a good market. Are there mopeds in Indo? I reckon they'd be a good seller.

SubEther's original question: Would YOU buy a bodge off ME?

No--not if you'll be bodging the carb floats w/JB Weld or similar.

had a think about this and I'm sure your not understanding why the wages and materials are cheaper

health and safety
quality control
training
PPE
quality of materials used
working environment

all missing which keeps costs down so people like you can take advantage providing a cheap inferior product to the poor old hipsters who know no better..making you a lot of money along the way

sorry but your a rip off merchant if you think this is acceptable

I thought your $2-$4 p/hr in wages was irony/humor?
george

I am sure it is too.

Same as his comment on if they can survive him riding the bike hard as a test before passing it on. Scooterrorist has taken two comments and played them out pretty unfairly IMHO. One of the issues with forums I guess.

Basic economics

its not all about the quality of the restoration

Hi guys i think it would be difficult to get bikes to an acceptable standard
for the cost,having restored a few bikes in my time the hidden costs (mainly hidden from her indoors lol) rack up really quickly and if its for yourself you can justify buying quality parts and if i,m honest it would probably have been too scary to actually calculate all the receipts,

Also the vintage 2 stroke vespa,s do seem to attract the more hands on guys that actually like working on the bikes
george

I am glad I asked before considering selling.

Yip basic economics... this is why we like going to S.E.A. & Pacific Islands (& I guess Mexico, India, China etc) for holidays & to get manufacturing done... coz everything is CHEAP... did you never wonder why there are people 'paid' to stand around doing not much, or sitting on a seat 24/7 outside a building doing apparently nothing (ie security for the premises), or why there appear to be lots of people serving in shops even though turnover does not seem to warrant so many people?
It is coz wages are low, yet employment is high.

Ohh... health and safety, quality control, PPE, quality of materials used, working environment are all non-existent (there is always another person ready to work in the same conditions if something should happen)

I know of a 24/7 security for their home in Solomon Islands that got a 'huge pay increase' upon the insistence of the expats living there... they increased from $1.40 p/hr to $2.20 p/hr, which changed the families lives!
BTW: I also donated this family a solar powered lighting & water pump system for their grass-hut, which i heard 5+ years later that their daughter used (the lights) to study for her exams, which she passed... something I am proud to have done... Yip, wages are low, BUT small gestures (or what we consider 'small') on our part can make a huge difference to others.

Hence why what we consider as 'low wages' can be considered as 'normal wages' in another economy.
Also, the people are complete geniuses when it comes to restoring (or bodging), as they & their parents have worked on Vespas for their entire life, so know how to fix (or bodge) one.

The BIGGEST issues with restos is lack of quality control as you have pointed out... that they sure know how to make a PX look like a VBB (with tricky-dicky welding)... they will 'rebuild' using whatever they have on hand (incl hand-made or used bearings/parts) & if doing a 'complete rebuild' will not do a complete rebuild as we know, but merely pull it all apart & completely rebuild it... if there is no need to replace the part (when a shim or some JB weld (copy) will do, then that's what they do. We have all seen the dodgy crap that comes out of a 'rebuilt' bodge motor... the bodywork is cut & welded or bogged to make it look smooth, rather than hammered back into shape (which they can do upon insistence)... they will do an awesome (looking) paintjob, but its done in some back shed, on the dirt floor (with a bit of water on the dirt to reduce the dust), but 'forget' to remove the debris (leaves/dirt) from inside the frame or under tank, & not even paint there (nor rust-treat) as that is not seen.... They will buy the cheapest nastiest parts possible (likely used but washed), even though quality parts are available (but more expensive)... The list goes on...

So how does one stop a scoot from becoming a bodge? Well, that's kinda simple... apply Western ethics to the resto... have someone who understands what the finished product needs to be to oversee it all... to go & buy ALL the quality parts & oversee the entire resto... basically, if you have clear & precise instructions/directions/insistence on what it required (in their language, not 'Pidgeon Engrish') then there is a chance it will be done 'correctly'... So, how does this make anything cheaper?? Parts cost less, labour is nothing & overseer has lots of spare time (otherwise he will sit by the pool drinking)

MY bodginess... nope, there would be no JB Welded bodging on my part on something I would sell & put my name to, that is reserved for my own scoot & my own ongoing testing & playing/enjoyment, as if something I have done breaks, then it is my own fault & I cannot blame anyone else.
Nor will there be any bodgy parts used by me...

My 'thrashing'... if you knew how I rode, you would understand what I am meaning here... If it can break, I can break it (& quickly)... if it's a true-bodge, it will break or stop running within a few hundred km's or 'feel' unsafe, which is not acceptable & I would not put my reputation to something like that.
I won't sell dodgy-bodgy-shit, as Ginchi pointed out, I cant afford to Patina the reputation I have built.

Thanks for the input & feedback... I respect you all & appreciate the honesty & look forward to more feedback. I have spoken to the person arranging the scoots & we will be having a LONG chat before proceeding... & possibly getting a few scoots for ourselves to see how they go first... someone needs to give it (another) try at rescuing quality bodges

So you dont care if someone injures themselfs restoring scooters for YOUR benefit because they cant afford the correct ppe or a good,safe system for spraying the cheap paint you supply?

i understand what thrashing means,just as you describe so your not helping yourself imo. we have a running in process in our country,what about yours?

cant believe the soppy story you've given to justify paying terrible wages only to make a killing in your own country might make some people think your a nice guy but to me just means your a con artist

you dont care what anyone says here,your just after making as much money as possible

I guessed the cynicism about the pack of PPE was missed, sorry... It is something important to myself, as is helping families survive & thrive.

Not sure where you think there are moonbeams of $$$ to be made from this process, but guess your economics has never involved importing, nor extends to the mysteries of AQIS (quarantine), customs, dock workers, shipping, import duties, GST, random fees, clearance fees, research, risk, initial & ongoing costs, RWC, RegIstration etc...

Sorry sweetie, but there aint no retirement fund being made by trying to sell reasonably priced scoots, nor any scoots for that matter, its merely a hobby to fund scooter parts & coz i enjoy it... I will buy/sell/swap/trade anything i feel is worth selling/swapping (incl Jousting Sticks), & will continue to do so... This is merely an exercise to see IF im completely bonkers to be considering selling S.E.A scoots.

There sure is no chance of building it locally (& being actually able to sell it for a decent/respectable/low price) where the labour pricewould be $80 p/hr for basic labour at a local mechanic.

I'll ignore the digs about PPE, as really know you dont know me, else you would already understand my jnderstanging on this topic, but will consider buying the builder correct gear (even though it is highly unlikely that they will actually use it)... I will also assume that you avoid all Chinese made products to ensure you are not supporting (or was that exploiting) low wages & poor OHS practices... Buy local!

George, the 'hidden costs' are a lot of the reason that there is not a lot to be made, & we all know we wuld never sell a scoot for what we invested in it... Ask RetroGuy how much he made from his resto!
The wages p/hr is sad, but that is in our opinion. Yet it is impolite to pay them $25 per hour tp do work... Plus they generally work on 'island time'

Did noone ever wonder why most mainstream stuff/crap ended up getting made in China in the past 15 years? & now that their workers are demanding higher wages, that things are now being made in other developing countries?

Ohh yeah, almost forgot...

Hi SubEtherBASS,

I think the problem here is that anyone wanting to buy a Vespa would probably look at a new one from the dealer if they have the money, mainly for peace of mind, or if they don't have the money then a LML maybe an option. That leaves the other people; the ones who go and look for vespas on the internet. The majority of these people will buy a bodge from either a "reputable" place like planet bodge or off some guy who as already been done and is trying to offload his trouble.

I know that you would go into this with maximum integrity only trying to make an honest dollar doing something you love I also think that it is going to be very hard for you to change people's perceptions of Asian scooters and given the very small profit margin it will make it hard to be successful. Would I buy an asian scooter off you? Probably not based on the poor reputation of Asian bikes that exists.

This is only my 2 cents worth and if you decide to go ahead with it I wish you all the best.

Cheers

Hey SEB. Is there a limit to how many bikes you are allowed to import a year?

Fabio... I too am concerned about the (very justified, time & time again) stigma relating to SEA bodges, & the things Planet Bodge have done while trying the same thing. Hmmm, LML (love my lemon)... AnaKey started life as a LML NV150, its the worst, least reliable scoot i have ever owed, dem Indians sure made a low quality product (or at least that batch was),& they appear to sell differing levels of quality.
BTW; ive not seen you ride past much of late, have you been riding this summer?

Blank... I think its 12 (car) sales before being considered a dealer... I so think that the number of import approvals also is a factor that is flagged to customs (ie, i must be making money, therefore they want a cut & add charges wherever they can).
Let me know if you need a VespaCross scoot.

Josh... Comments noted

Looks like the consensis is to keep getting scoots from reputable countries, & go back to my style of "original, complete, unrestored" scoots, but not oddballs.

"I'll ignore the digs about PPE, as really know you dont know me"

I sure you will

And your still trying to suger coat it bringing china into the mix

if you cant afford to restore scooters to a good standard then there isnt a market for them is there? Your trying to make a market

Not that I agree or disagree, but this is really, really one sided.

No one promised you a rose garden...

why not
george

I would not. Nothing personal, of course. The history of the scoots is not what I think many are looking for - most buyers from different walks of life probably either want a) new, b) original with patina, or c) a locally-done resto to a local bike. I fear that your main customer base would be people with too much cash who are not "in the know", and then only a handful of people who really know what they are buying but also trust you and your sourcing sufficiently. Which is not, I think, how you want your sales to be made. If nothing else, a savvy buyer would worry about the resale value should they ever want to move on. I think there are plenty of scoots you can drop 3500-4500 on with less baggage (real or exaggerated/imagined)

My 2c

Keep on the NZ stuff. I'd be all over something like this in a flash
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/scooters/auction-994949681.htm
and possibly this too http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-996600145.htm

Hi mate, how are you doing?
I have been riding, I just don't stop at your work anymore just in case your boss doesn't like it. Going back to the idea of trying to make money doing something you love. Why don't you start doing ground up TOP restorations of scooters you import from NZ at honest prices and maybe attach it to a coffee shop "SPEEDY" (your girlfriend maybe able to run that)
and to add to the mix maybe later import some really good stuff from Italy I be happy to help you with that. This may work.

PS: It is nice to see the majority of people on this forum trying to help you out with your idea, which is what this type of forum is all about. What I don't understand is why some people bother coming on this forum with noting good or constructive to say with the narrow socialist mentality that if you making money somehow you are ripping people off.
Sometime if one has nothing good or constructive to say it is better to SHUT UP!!!
my 2 cents worth.

Doesn't NZ have a ton of SS90s? I'd pay big bucks for one... or even bigger bucks for a top notch restored one. Don't want to muddy the waters, but just saying.