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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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MV Santa
@vintage_red_matthew avatar
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Whenever I have a question about anything and I don't think Google will help me I come here. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about car repair and mechanics in general but not so much about automatic transmissions. this one has me stumped.

I have a 1983 Chevy Elcamino with a 305 and automatic. Yesterday, while driving home the transmission started to slip and I had it towed home. It was out of trans fluid. I filled it and when I started it fluid poured out from between the torque converter and the engine. I estimate about a quart every 20 seconds. Everything looks good from what I can see. The converter seems solid and not wobbly. I have heard about a lot of problems with cars but this is a new one to me. Is there something on the front of the converter that can give out like that. Obviously the trans has to come out. Hopefully I'll be able to see what's going on then and all I'll need is a new converter. Any thoughts?
⚠️ Last edited by vintage red matthew on UTC; edited 2 times
@jkj-fz6 avatar
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Ossessionato
BV400, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Ossessionato
@jkj-fz6 avatar
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UTC quote
Uh, since this is a Modern Vespa forum...put a CVT in it. Clown emoticon
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Rocket Man
GTS 300 ABS 'Drake', GTS 250 (sold), LX 150 and Delta IV rocket. ( Retired. Not my problem anymore)
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Rocket Man
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UTC quote
Re: NSR Car repair advice
vintage red matthew wrote:
Whenever I have a question about anything and I don't think Google will help me I come here. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about car repair and mechanics in general but not so much about automatic transmissions. this one has me stumped.

I have a 1983 Chevy Elcamino with a 305 and automatic. Yesterday, while driving home the transmission started to slip and I had it towed home. It was out of trans fluid. I filled it and when I started it fluid poured out from between the torque converter and the engine. I estimate about a quart every 20 seconds. Everything looks good from what I can see. The converter seems solid and not wobbly. I have heard about a lot of problems with cars but this is a new one to me. Is there something on the front of the converter that can give out like that. Obviously the trans has to come out. Hopefully I'll be able to see what's going on then and all I'll need is a new converter. Any thoughts?
Matthew, I'm assuming you're running a Turbo 350 in the camino. With that much loss of fluid it's obvious something catastrophic happened. Usually if that particular converter overheats the seal will begin to leak. Something similar a like rear main, but tranny fluid. If the fluid is coming out of the the bottom bell housing inspection cover, the fluid could be coming the from the front tranny seal.

You're right, trans has to come out and an amputation of the converter can be done if that's the issue. Once you're in there that deep recommend a rebuild on all. When the converter is replaced with a large amount of new fluid it usually loosens things up in the hydraulics and you'll be yanking the trans out again.

On the bright side, now you can install that shift kit to give it that kick. These Turbos love it.

B
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Trany front seal. I had a 1981 model and installed it myself after dropping the trany and taking off the torque converter. My advice: Replace the rear seal on the engine and the rear seal on the transmission while is out. It's right there, easy to get to, and there will never be a better time to do it. All seals will leak eventually, no getting around it. I miss my El Camino, it was a good ride, I only sold it because I could not go anywhere with two of my children being a two seater. Good luck
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Rocket Man
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Tierney wrote:
Trany front seal. ...My advice: Replace the rear seal on the engine and the rear seal on the transmission while is out. It's right there, easy to get to, and there will never be a better time to do it.
Agree, another must, IMO, after removing the flex plate and exposing the ass end of the block, replace those freeze plugs that will now be easy to get to. If not, expect a coolant leak and a lot of swearing in the future. Cheap and easy preventative measure.

Bob
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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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MV Santa
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I'm pretty sure it's a THD350 and not a 400. I'm thinking that it's more than just a seal. I put about three quarts of fluid in and it was all on the floor in about a minute. Definitely coming from in front of the converter. It did not get hot. The weather here has been cold and I haven't driven more that about 20 miles at a time for a month. I suppose the seal could have completely blown out for some reason but I'm looking at prices for torque converters. Also making a visit to Harbor Freight today to get a better floor jack and jack stands.
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UTC quote
vintage red matthew wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's a THD350 and not a 400. I'm thinking that it's more than just a seal. I put about three quarts of fluid in and it was all on the floor in about a minute. Definitely coming from in front of the converter. It did not get hot. The weather here has been cold and I haven't driven more that about 20 miles at a time for a month. I suppose the seal could have completely blown out for some reason but I'm looking at prices for torque converters. Also making a visit to Harbor Freight today to get a better floor jack and jack stands.
+1 on new torque converter. Full disclosure, I have no idea what I am talking about, but right off in your original post I was thinking cracked housing. A typically blown seal will drip, not gush as you described. I have never seen a seal completely blown out of its position, and even then it would be a stream not flood. When I had my Explorer, I had a hole in one of the cooling lines that I discovered (by way of a red stain on fresh snow) at work. I drove 65 miles home and it just started to studder the last mile or so.
Replaced both lines....
Replaced both lines....
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UTC quote
Though I suppose the seal could dry out and get stuck to the shaft, then tear to shreds next time it is rotated.
Dunno. Good luck.
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When you add fluid, it is going into the trany case, not the torque converter - that is separate. Definitely a case/ line leak. I feel your pain. I had my wife's car engine replaced last month (dropped valve), washer seal blew ( ruined the ceiling below and new washer), and my house heater just went out.
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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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MV Santa
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UTC quote
Tierney wrote:
When you add fluid, it is going into the trany case, not the torque converter - that is separate. Definitely a case/ line leak. I feel your pain. I had my wife's car engine replaced last month (dropped valve), washer seal blew ( ruined the ceiling below and new washer), and my house heater just went out.
It's not leaking from the cooling lines. Are you saying that you think it's a cracked case?
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Couldn't help myself. You guys set yourselves up for this one.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Rocket Man
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UTC quote
Matthew, in your original post you said the fluid dumped when the engine was started. I must assume the leak was not from a static or sitting scenario other than some residual dripping.

If that's true, you've probably imploded your converter. Obviously the pump in the tranny is working because a dump of a quart every 20 seconds is massive. Just a guess, but I'd bet your stator within the converter blew apart. This probably damaged the converter or split its case. Maybe even imploded the turbo vanes which could lead to a destructive opening of the case.

Sorry about your situation. But, it's always fun to dissect the parts.

Again, the above just a guess based off my misfortunes with these automatics.

Bob
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UTC quote
If the numbers match, then just have the transmission rebuilt. Even with low miles, this is old enough that all the seals are about to head south. If the numbers don't match, you can get a rebuilt transmission with a warranty for around $1000. If the TC is toast that'll be another $200-300.

The reality is you're going to have to drop the tranny. Once out you can do the math on the value of the truck, cost of rebuild, cost of replacement because you'll be able to see what's up. It might just be a cracked TC or blown seal and for $300 and a day of RnRing the tranny, you're golden.

Do not get rid of the old transmission if the numbers match if you are going to restore or try to sell it as a classic. Eat the core charge and set it on a shelf.
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vintage red matthew wrote:
Tierney wrote:
When you add fluid, it is going into the trany case, not the torque converter - that is separate. Definitely a case/ line leak. I feel your pain. I had my wife's car engine replaced last month (dropped valve), washer seal blew ( ruined the ceiling below and new washer), and my house heater just went out.
It's not leaking from the cooling lines. Are you saying that you think it's a cracked case?
Not saying that at all. But let's just hope it is a lousy seal. Let us know once the trany is dropped.
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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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UTC quote
If the TC has kerploded then the whole system will likely be full of debris. I can pull the pan and look for shavings.

Won't know anything until it's out.
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MV Santa
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UTC quote
I would prefer to rebuild if the numbers match. I'll no doubt find the number on the trans once it's out. Where is the number on the motor?
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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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MV Santa
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Here's a picture.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Oh man, that is sweet. I hope you can just rebuild the original.
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2007 GTS 250ei
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UTC quote
vintage red matthew wrote:
I would prefer to rebuild if the numbers match. I'll no doubt find the number on the trans once it's out. Where is the number on the motor?
http://www.chuckschevytruckpages.com/casting.html
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love your el camino.
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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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MV Santa
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UTC quote
After much grunting, cursing and groaning I got the transmission out. I expected to see a big effing hole in theTC. Nothing so dramatic. At first glance everything looked kosher but on closer inspection I could see that the sealing surface on the input shaft of the converter was not good. Also the converter has about half an inch of play if you move it up and down. That can't be good. Looks like I have a replace or rebuild in my future, right? I'm still trying to see if the numbers match. Too much grease and oil to see the numbers.
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MV Santa
GTS250, 1975 VBC, 1980 P200E cutdown
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MV Santa
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UTC quote
Well, it was a struggle but I got it. Turns out that my old trans was a Turbo 250, (which I had not heard of). It also had a lock up torque converter. My transmission guy flatly refused to rebuild it. He said it would be unethical because he considers them to be junk. He sold me a rebuilt THD350 for $575 plus a $100 core charge. I also had to replace the kick down cable and the flex plate because it had some worn teeth. Good to go for about $750 total, plus a lot of grunting on my part. At least now I have a good trans that should last the life of the car.
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Rocket Man
GTS 300 ABS 'Drake', GTS 250 (sold), LX 150 and Delta IV rocket. ( Retired. Not my problem anymore)
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Rocket Man
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UTC quote
^^^
Good move. But a 250? Wow, that's a rare breed. I thought they were sold only with 6 bangers. No experience with them here. But, that 350 will do it justice. Have you thought about a light shift kit for the 350?

B
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