OP
@meltshow avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
 
Enthusiast
@meltshow avatar
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
UTC quote
Long story short, I'm the proud owner of an '82 P80X that has somehow made its way Stateside. It's in pretty good shape, with some minor surface rust, electrical troubles (runs without a key!) and the usual dents and dings from a lifetime of use. As it's my first Vespa, I've got a few questions! Can I get keys cut off of the ignition switch's serial number? In terms of giving it a going-through: where should I start? Normally I'd re-lube or replace brake/throttle/clutch cables, check the brake pads and give the carb a thorough cleaning. Anything I should be wary of or make sure I inspect?

Thanks!
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⚠️ Last edited by meltshow on UTC; edited 1 time
UTC

Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
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Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
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UTC quote
first congrats!
second - yeah ignition keys on early P's are useless. You can easily break the ignition with a screwdriver or blank key. You can buy a brand new complete ignition with keys.

third - P80X was a German and a couple other market only version for licensing/learner laws. It had shorter stroke and 80cc cylinder. Cases are 125/150. First thing I would do is upgrade the crank and cylinder and convert to electronic ignition (and of course the carb to appropriate size).

They are horribly slow and dangerous. 40mph slow. Its like trying to drive an RV with a VW beetle engine up Pikes Peak.
⚠️ Last edited by almogavar1969 on UTC; edited 1 time
OP
@meltshow avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
 
Enthusiast
@meltshow avatar
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
UTC quote
Cool! Is upgrading from points as simple as swapping the stator, CDI and flywheel? I've never owned a bike with electronic ignition. That'd be rad.

When cracking the engine case for an upgrade or whatever, it sounds like I'd be able replace the gaskets with those from a P125X kit. Pretty much everything from a P125X should swap over apart from the top end, right?
@subetherbass avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
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@subetherbass avatar
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
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UTC quote
Before you start screwing with it... Get on & ride the damn thing. There is a chance someone has already done mods & it will be ok.
If you have not ridden a Vespa before, its safer to learn on something slow, then upgrade as things break & as you learn to ride.
⚠️ Last edited by SubEtherBASS on UTC; edited 1 time
@xkrebstarx avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1966 Bluebadge, 1974 Super 150
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Molto Verboso
@xkrebstarx avatar
1966 Bluebadge, 1974 Super 150
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UTC quote
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Before you start screwing with it... Get on & ride the damn thing. There is a chance someone has a
Ready done mods & it will be ok.
If you have not ridden a Vespa before, its safer to learn on something slow, then upgrade as things break & as you learn to ride.
Yup, this...
@blank avatar
UTC

Hooked
65 VNC Super, Series 1 50n (136), 50s, PX150, Douglas G, Ciao, Si, PX200E, PX vespacross project, Douglas Rod
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@blank avatar
65 VNC Super, Series 1 50n (136), 50s, PX150, Douglas G, Ciao, Si, PX200E, PX vespacross project, Douglas Rod
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UTC quote
xkrebstarx wrote:
SubEtherBASS wrote:
Before you start screwing with it... Get on & ride the damn thing. There is a chance someone has a
Ready done mods & it will be ok.
If you have not ridden a Vespa before, its safer to learn on something slow, then upgrade as things break & as you learn to ride.
Yup, this...
Ditto. A slow working bike always beats one in the pits!
UTC

Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
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Location: United States
 
Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
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UTC quote
by all means get it running and ride it around. Then youll get an idea of the beast.
@t5bitza69 avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
T5s
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Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@t5bitza69 avatar
T5s
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Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country
UTC quote
ratter
ride it n get used to it n as theres no kit for an 80 id cut it down to lighten the load but thats me
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
Find the local scooterists, can't emphasize it enough. Meet them. Ride with them. Buy them beer. They will help you when it comes time to think about performance upgrades. But make those connections, since it is your first scooter. Do not tear into it right away. You'll regret having a bike in bits before you have any fun - I tried it this way with my first - getting into a project with only internet support. It's not recommended.
@rob_hodge avatar
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
@rob_hodge avatar
Joined: UTC
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UTC quote
almogavar1969 wrote:
first congrats!
second - yeah ignition keys on early P's are useless. You can easily break the ignition with a screwdriver or blank key. You can buy a brand new complete ignition with keys.

third - P80X was a German market only version for licensing/learner laws. It had shorter stroke and 80cc cylinder. Cases are 125/150. First thing I would do is upgrade the crank and cylinder and convert to electronic ignition (and of course the carb to appropriate size).

They are horribly slow and dangerous. 40mph slow. Its like trying to drive an RV with a VW beetle engine up Pikes Peak.
they were also sold in ireland, of all places.

there also are a slew of other internal differences. while they are p125/150 based, they are not the same in the gearbox. if you order internal parts for this- i'd recommend making sure you talk to somone who is familiar with them first.

some of the more significant differences are that the clutch and primary are different gearing and the Christmas tree is unique to the P80's, and takes different bearings. the loose gears in the transmission are all different as well. the case can't take a standard p125 transmission without a special custom christmas tree shaft, due to the holes being machined differently.
@jackson85 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
T5 Pole Position, T for thoroughbred
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Location: Dublin
 
Ossessionato
@jackson85 avatar
T5 Pole Position, T for thoroughbred
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UTC quote
It's true, iv no idea why though. We have the 125cc limit until you are 18 like lots of other countries
UTC

Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1215
Location: United States
 
Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1215
Location: United States
UTC quote
rob hodge wrote:
almogavar1969 wrote:
first congrats!
second - yeah ignition keys on early P's are useless. You can easily break the ignition with a screwdriver or blank key. You can buy a brand new complete ignition with keys.

third - P80X was a German market only version for licensing/learner laws. It had shorter stroke and 80cc cylinder. Cases are 125/150. First thing I would do is upgrade the crank and cylinder and convert to electronic ignition (and of course the carb to appropriate size).

They are horribly slow and dangerous. 40mph slow. Its like trying to drive an RV with a VW beetle engine up Pikes Peak.
they were also sold in ireland, of all places.

there also are a slew of other internal differences. while they are p125/150 based, they are not the same in the gearbox. if you order internal parts for this- i'd recommend making sure you talk to somone who is familiar with them first.

some of the more significant differences are that the clutch and primary are different gearing and the Christmas tree is unique to the P80's, and takes different bearings. the loose gears in the transmission are all different as well. the case can't take a standard p125 transmission without a special custom christmas tree shaft, due to the holes being machined differently.
ughh there you go! My condolences!
UTC

Ossessionato
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2004
Location: UK (South East)
 
Ossessionato
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2004
Location: UK (South East)
UTC quote
We just used an input shaft with P80 dimensions in a 125 TS motor, in order to use a late PX (EFL) gearbox. It was actually a Worb5 machined EFL shaft. With this, we could use the EFL christmas tree with the beefier bearing, whilst utilising the smaller diameter clutch side case hole and flywheel side bush. This should work for the P80 too.
@bigben avatar
UTC

Evil
p2, jet2, lml166
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Location: Philadelphia, United States
 
Evil
@bigben avatar
p2, jet2, lml166
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Location: Philadelphia, United States
UTC quote
vespa made an 80cc px?

Razz emoticon
@brentscheffler avatar
UTC

Addicted
'78, '80 P125X, '80 100 Sport, '74 150 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 717
Location: Seattle
 
Addicted
@brentscheffler avatar
'78, '80 P125X, '80 100 Sport, '74 150 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 717
Location: Seattle
UTC quote
rob hodge wrote:
almogavar1969 wrote:
first congrats!
second - yeah ignition keys on early P's are useless. You can easily break the ignition with a screwdriver or blank key. You can buy a brand new complete ignition with keys.

third - P80X was a German market only version for licensing/learner laws. It had shorter stroke and 80cc cylinder. Cases are 125/150. First thing I would do is upgrade the crank and cylinder and convert to electronic ignition (and of course the carb to appropriate size).

They are horribly slow and dangerous. 40mph slow. Its like trying to drive an RV with a VW beetle engine up Pikes Peak.
they were also sold in ireland, of all places.

there also are a slew of other internal differences. while they are p125/150 based, they are not the same in the gearbox. if you order internal parts for this- i'd recommend making sure you talk to somone who is familiar with them first.

some of the more significant differences are that the clutch and primary are different gearing and the Christmas tree is unique to the P80's, and takes different bearings. the loose gears in the transmission are all different as well. the case can't take a standard p125 transmission without a special custom christmas tree shaft, due to the holes being machined differently.
*If* you did want to go down the 125/150 route, this input shaft would be the one you would need to in order to fit a 125/150/200 transmission:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/main/base/Details.aspx?ProductNumber=88211000

And as Rob mentioned, you'd also need a new bearing for it, christmas tree cluster, cush drive, clutch gear, and a set of gears. I.e. it won't be cheap. It would almost be cheaper to just buy a used 125/150 lump.

You could slap on a 125/150 top end and leave the gearing as-is, but it'd be a bit bucky I think.

Best of luck!
@primavera130 avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa P200, Primavera 130, VNA200, Italjet Pack-a-Way Moped, Ciao etc
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Location: Humboldt County, California
 
Hooked
@primavera130 avatar
Vespa P200, Primavera 130, VNA200, Italjet Pack-a-Way Moped, Ciao etc
Joined: UTC
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UTC quote
Check that engine
Check to see if its already a 125 or 150. Pirate Imports in Texas imported PX80s and slapped 150 kits (or maybe complete 150 LMLs?) in them

I have friends here in Humboldt that have one. I couldn't tell riding it if the gearing was different, but the 150 makes it at least capable of 50-55 mph.

Cool score!

Dave
@vespa_auntie avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3406
Location: pacifica,ca.
 
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UTC quote
Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon
@rob_hodge avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1924
Location: Seattle
 
Molto Verboso
@rob_hodge avatar
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Posts: 1924
Location: Seattle
UTC quote
brentscheffler wrote:
rob hodge wrote:
almogavar1969 wrote:
first congrats!
second - yeah ignition keys on early P's are useless. You can easily break the ignition with a screwdriver or blank key. You can buy a brand new complete ignition with keys.

third - P80X was a German market only version for licensing/learner laws. It had shorter stroke and 80cc cylinder. Cases are 125/150. First thing I would do is upgrade the crank and cylinder and convert to electronic ignition (and of course the carb to appropriate size).

They are horribly slow and dangerous. 40mph slow. Its like trying to drive an RV with a VW beetle engine up Pikes Peak.
they were also sold in ireland, of all places.

there also are a slew of other internal differences. while they are p125/150 based, they are not the same in the gearbox. if you order internal parts for this- i'd recommend making sure you talk to somone who is familiar with them first.

some of the more significant differences are that the clutch and primary are different gearing and the Christmas tree is unique to the P80's, and takes different bearings. the loose gears in the transmission are all different as well. the case can't take a standard p125 transmission without a special custom christmas tree shaft, due to the holes being machined differently.
*If* you did want to go down the 125/150 route, this input shaft would be the one you would need to in order to fit a 125/150/200 transmission:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/main/base/Details.aspx?ProductNumber=88211000

And as Rob mentioned, you'd also need a new bearing for it, christmas tree cluster, cush drive, clutch gear, and a set of gears. I.e. it won't be cheap. It would almost be cheaper to just buy a used 125/150 lump.

You could slap on a 125/150 top end and leave the gearing as-is, but it'd be a bit bucky I think.

Best of luck!
Well, if you were to want to go to 125/150/166/177/etc, you wouldn't necessarily need to change out the gearbox- there are other, better ways of adjusting the gearing. really the only reason to swap the gearbox is if you find 1-2 chipped gears. it's cheaper to get an LML gearbox sometimes than replacing more than that.

even at that, a swap isn't as easy as that- there are a few nuances due to the many different swaps piaggio did to the lower christmas tree bearing over the years.

I just wanted to stress that these aren't just 'p125 engines with a goofy crankshaft', so you know in case you ever want to rebuild it.

even the needle bearings in the christmas tree are different on the p80's, and they are the only largeframe that uses anything besides the normal ones you are used to seeing.
@blank avatar
UTC

Hooked
65 VNC Super, Series 1 50n (136), 50s, PX150, Douglas G, Ciao, Si, PX200E, PX vespacross project, Douglas Rod
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Hooked
@blank avatar
65 VNC Super, Series 1 50n (136), 50s, PX150, Douglas G, Ciao, Si, PX200E, PX vespacross project, Douglas Rod
Joined: UTC
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UTC quote
I still say ride it like there's no tomorrow. Underpowered bikes can be a whole lot of fun in their own way. You'll be hooked in no time and find yourself selling stuff to buy the Vespa you need.
@pdxjim avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2005 PX150 In a Part-time Relationship with a 2-Stroke Vespa Since 2007
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Molto Verboso
@pdxjim avatar
2005 PX150 In a Part-time Relationship with a 2-Stroke Vespa Since 2007
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UTC quote
Blank has a point. I'd just ride it and see how it feels and try to figure out what it's currently got. Just because it says 80 on it doesn't mean someone else hasn't already changed that in all these years. Then, if you like it enough to imagine it having more power, shop around for a used 125/150 or even 200 engine, rebuild that on the side, then drop that engine in and be happy.
OP
@meltshow avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
 
Enthusiast
@meltshow avatar
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
UTC quote
You guys: thanks for all the great ideas! I think for now I'll just toss on some new tires and battery and ride it like a mad man. I agree that it's a lot of fun to really wring out a weaker bike.
⬆️    About 6 years elapsed    ⬇️
OP
@meltshow avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
 
Enthusiast
@meltshow avatar
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
UTC quote
It's time to to revive this old thread! Flash forward to 2022, and my P80X is nearly buttoned up. This year, it got a whole top-to-bottom makeover: bodywork, paint, new seat, new wiring harness, and an engine overhaul + upgrade. I got it started this Monday and gave it a couple of loops around the culdesac: this was awesome.

I am, however, blowing fuses. I had the electrics sorted before tossing the engine in. Lights, horn, indicators, etc., all were happy as can be. I had to rewire the stator (2 red wires, like a P200E). There are no shorts there, as far as I can tell, but I still need to check resistance there to be sure it's happy. I'm 80% certain the 5-wire reg/rec isn't regulating, as my test ride (with a blown fuse) blew out a taillight. All of this is backstory for my other electrical gremlin.

Watch this video: https://youtu.be/IpmnQvi0nDE

I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the kill switch. It did not seem to work to stop the engine. In the above video, you see me flicking the kill switch to the right, and the flywheel moves. What is even happening there? The kill switch grounds the engine, right? Does the kill switch rely on a working fuse to kill the engine? A working reg/rec?

The wiring harness is brand new, and I can trace the 2nd green wire at the ignition coil to the wiring under the horn cover (and up to the kill switch). The kill switch+headlight+horn switches are all original.[/url]

Would love your input!
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OP
@meltshow avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
 
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@meltshow avatar
1981 P80X
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Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
UTC quote
Tested the stator just now and it's golden (ohms are right in spec). With kill switch flicked, its green wire at the ignition coil should be grounded, but it is not! Which means I've got funny wiring up in the headset, right?
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Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
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@birdsnest avatar
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UTC quote
Open the junction box under the the horn cast and make sure the green isn't grounding to another wire there. Pop the headset and check the same. Casing on the green wire is always garbage on old bikes so it really could be grounding out anywhere… [edit - sorry I didnt see that you had a new harness) but junction and headset are easy to check and worth the effort to suss out what's what.
⚠️ Last edited by Birdsnest on UTC; edited 1 time
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Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
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Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
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@rowdyc avatar
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
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UTC quote
Blown fuse usually battery connections are wrong somewhere.

No kill on new wiring harness maybe wires not hooked up correctly. Chase is down from headset, behind the horn to the junction box onto the cdi.

Need a wiring diagram to make sure all connections are correct.

Good luck!
OP
@meltshow avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
 
Enthusiast
@meltshow avatar
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
UTC quote
Welcome to the weird world of Euro-spec wiring harnesses. I've spent the last couple of nights working through the headset area, and I think everything is to spec. I initially followed pictures of the original wiring harness back in 2017, but the wiring was so crumbly, corroded, and discolored that it's not easy to tell which wires are which. There was a small tree growing through the front fork column...

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/download/article/1/pdf/ca313ac5-6f38-49d2-98ea-edbe9757b366/schaltplan_86130000.pdf?contentType=application-pdf

My CDI/coil green wire goes directly to the key switch (8-way key). Handlebar switches have turn signal on the left-hand side and from left to right on the right-hand side: kill switch, high/low, horn. The kill switch has a purple wire going down to the reg/rec and, as currently wired with the key switched to On, seems to connect to black/white, brown (headlight switch is set to low), pink (to horn), and black (ground) no matter the switch position.

When I flick the kill switch to kill (to the right) with battery plugged in, headlight dims quite a bit, that clunk happens down in the stator and voltage drops to about 8 volts. Pretty sure it's dumping power back into the coil via the reg/rec which seems BAD.

The only difference I can see from my wiring to the diagram is how I had to wire the yellow + gray wires. Yellow is the parking lamp up front, and gray feeds back to the rear light (not brake light). I've got two bulbs in the stoplight assembly (one for brake, one for parking + always on). According to the wiring diagram, my key switch should we wired thusly:
    Pin 1: White
    Pin 2: Nothing
    Pin 3: Red
    Pin 4: Yellow + Gray
    Pin 5: Gray
    Pin 6: Black/White
    Pin 7: Black
    Pin 8: Green (to ignition coil)
With this setup, key switched to Park and everything seems right. Key switched to On and I get no power to anything except for the rear brake light (when you press the pedal). So what I ended up doing was what this P200E diagram (https://www.scooterhelp.com/electrics/wiring/VSX1T_Euro_after.pdf) would have me do:
    Pin 1: White
    Pin 2: Gray
    Pin 3: Red
    Pin 4: Yellow
    Pin 5: Gray
    Pin 6: Black/White
    Pin 7: Black
    Pin 8: Green (to ignition coil)
With this arrangement, key turned to Park is happy, and key to On has all functioning accessories, but the strange kill switch situation + blowing fuses.

What should I dig into next, you think?
OP
@meltshow avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
 
Enthusiast
@meltshow avatar
1981 P80X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 83
Location: Solano County, CA
UTC quote
Okay, so detective hat back on. Found this post 1981 P200E electrical system and key switch which got me thinking.

So I disconnect gray from pole 2, and with the key to ON, I get horn, blinkers, brake light (lever pressed), and nothing else. Start up the scooter, and I get horn, blinkers, brake light, tail light, illuminated speedometer, and headlights. Rad! The "kill switch" seems to turn lights on/off...which might be all it is meant to do? So I'm always running AC to the main lights with switch to ON.

However, the reg/rec is definitely trying to cook the battery. 15-16V with the engine idling! Fortunately, I do have a replacement arriving today.
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