Thanks!
⚠️ Last edited by meltshow on UTC; edited 1 time
OP
|
UTC
quote
Long story short, I'm the proud owner of an '82 P80X that has somehow made its way Stateside. It's in pretty good shape, with some minor surface rust, electrical troubles (runs without a key!) and the usual dents and dings from a lifetime of use. As it's my first Vespa, I've got a few questions! Can I get keys cut off of the ignition switch's serial number? In terms of giving it a going-through: where should I start? Normally I'd re-lube or replace brake/throttle/clutch cables, check the brake pads and give the carb a thorough cleaning. Anything I should be wary of or make sure I inspect?
Thanks! ⚠️ Last edited by meltshow on UTC; edited 1 time
|
UTC
Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1215 Location: United States |
|
Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1215 Location: United States |
UTC
quote
first congrats!
second - yeah ignition keys on early P's are useless. You can easily break the ignition with a screwdriver or blank key. You can buy a brand new complete ignition with keys. third - P80X was a German and a couple other market only version for licensing/learner laws. It had shorter stroke and 80cc cylinder. Cases are 125/150. First thing I would do is upgrade the crank and cylinder and convert to electronic ignition (and of course the carb to appropriate size). They are horribly slow and dangerous. 40mph slow. Its like trying to drive an RV with a VW beetle engine up Pikes Peak. ⚠️ Last edited by almogavar1969 on UTC; edited 1 time
|
OP
|
UTC
quote
Cool! Is upgrading from points as simple as swapping the stator, CDI and flywheel? I've never owned a bike with electronic ignition. That'd be rad.
When cracking the engine case for an upgrade or whatever, it sounds like I'd be able replace the gaskets with those from a P125X kit. Pretty much everything from a P125X should swap over apart from the top end, right? |
UTC
Ossessionato
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4861 Location: Australa, Mate |
|
Ossessionato
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4861 Location: Australa, Mate |
UTC
quote
Before you start screwing with it... Get on & ride the damn thing. There is a chance someone has already done mods & it will be ok.
If you have not ridden a Vespa before, its safer to learn on something slow, then upgrade as things break & as you learn to ride. ⚠️ Last edited by SubEtherBASS on UTC; edited 1 time
|
UTC
Molto Verboso
1966 Bluebadge, 1974 Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1117 Location: New York City |
|
Molto Verboso
1966 Bluebadge, 1974 Super 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1117 Location: New York City |
UTC
quote
SubEtherBASS wrote: Before you start screwing with it... Get on & ride the damn thing. There is a chance someone has a Ready done mods & it will be ok. If you have not ridden a Vespa before, its safer to learn on something slow, then upgrade as things break & as you learn to ride. |
Hooked
65 VNC Super, Series 1 50n (136), 50s, PX150, Douglas G, Ciao, Si, PX200E, PX vespacross project, Douglas Rod
Joined: UTC
Posts: 291 Location: Victoria |
UTC
quote
xkrebstarx wrote: SubEtherBASS wrote: Before you start screwing with it... Get on & ride the damn thing. There is a chance someone has a Ready done mods & it will be ok. If you have not ridden a Vespa before, its safer to learn on something slow, then upgrade as things break & as you learn to ride. |
UTC
Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1215 Location: United States |
|
Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1215 Location: United States |
RIP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
T5s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 17005 Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country |
UTC
quote
ratter
ride it n get used to it n as theres no kit for an 80 id cut it down to lighten the load but thats me
|
Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8889 Location: San Diego, CA |
UTC
quote
Find the local scooterists, can't emphasize it enough. Meet them. Ride with them. Buy them beer. They will help you when it comes time to think about performance upgrades. But make those connections, since it is your first scooter. Do not tear into it right away. You'll regret having a bike in bits before you have any fun - I tried it this way with my first - getting into a project with only internet support. It's not recommended.
|
|
UTC
quote
almogavar1969 wrote: first congrats! second - yeah ignition keys on early P's are useless. You can easily break the ignition with a screwdriver or blank key. You can buy a brand new complete ignition with keys. third - P80X was a German market only version for licensing/learner laws. It had shorter stroke and 80cc cylinder. Cases are 125/150. First thing I would do is upgrade the crank and cylinder and convert to electronic ignition (and of course the carb to appropriate size). They are horribly slow and dangerous. 40mph slow. Its like trying to drive an RV with a VW beetle engine up Pikes Peak. there also are a slew of other internal differences. while they are p125/150 based, they are not the same in the gearbox. if you order internal parts for this- i'd recommend making sure you talk to somone who is familiar with them first. some of the more significant differences are that the clutch and primary are different gearing and the Christmas tree is unique to the P80's, and takes different bearings. the loose gears in the transmission are all different as well. the case can't take a standard p125 transmission without a special custom christmas tree shaft, due to the holes being machined differently. |
|
UTC
quote
It's true, iv no idea why though. We have the 125cc limit until you are 18 like lots of other countries
|
UTC
Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1215 Location: United States |
|
Molto Verboso
Lambretta GP200, Vespa P200e, Motovespa do Brasil PX200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1215 Location: United States |
UTC
quote
rob hodge wrote: almogavar1969 wrote: first congrats! second - yeah ignition keys on early P's are useless. You can easily break the ignition with a screwdriver or blank key. You can buy a brand new complete ignition with keys. third - P80X was a German market only version for licensing/learner laws. It had shorter stroke and 80cc cylinder. Cases are 125/150. First thing I would do is upgrade the crank and cylinder and convert to electronic ignition (and of course the carb to appropriate size). They are horribly slow and dangerous. 40mph slow. Its like trying to drive an RV with a VW beetle engine up Pikes Peak. there also are a slew of other internal differences. while they are p125/150 based, they are not the same in the gearbox. if you order internal parts for this- i'd recommend making sure you talk to somone who is familiar with them first. some of the more significant differences are that the clutch and primary are different gearing and the Christmas tree is unique to the P80's, and takes different bearings. the loose gears in the transmission are all different as well. the case can't take a standard p125 transmission without a special custom christmas tree shaft, due to the holes being machined differently. |
Ossessionato
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2004 Location: UK (South East) |
UTC
quote
We just used an input shaft with P80 dimensions in a 125 TS motor, in order to use a late PX (EFL) gearbox. It was actually a Worb5 machined EFL shaft. With this, we could use the EFL christmas tree with the beefier bearing, whilst utilising the smaller diameter clutch side case hole and flywheel side bush. This should work for the P80 too.
|
|
UTC
Addicted
'78, '80 P125X, '80 100 Sport, '74 150 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 717 Location: Seattle |
|
Addicted
'78, '80 P125X, '80 100 Sport, '74 150 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 717 Location: Seattle |
UTC
quote
rob hodge wrote: almogavar1969 wrote: first congrats! second - yeah ignition keys on early P's are useless. You can easily break the ignition with a screwdriver or blank key. You can buy a brand new complete ignition with keys. third - P80X was a German market only version for licensing/learner laws. It had shorter stroke and 80cc cylinder. Cases are 125/150. First thing I would do is upgrade the crank and cylinder and convert to electronic ignition (and of course the carb to appropriate size). They are horribly slow and dangerous. 40mph slow. Its like trying to drive an RV with a VW beetle engine up Pikes Peak. there also are a slew of other internal differences. while they are p125/150 based, they are not the same in the gearbox. if you order internal parts for this- i'd recommend making sure you talk to somone who is familiar with them first. some of the more significant differences are that the clutch and primary are different gearing and the Christmas tree is unique to the P80's, and takes different bearings. the loose gears in the transmission are all different as well. the case can't take a standard p125 transmission without a special custom christmas tree shaft, due to the holes being machined differently. http://www.sip-scootershop.com/main/base/Details.aspx?ProductNumber=88211000 And as Rob mentioned, you'd also need a new bearing for it, christmas tree cluster, cush drive, clutch gear, and a set of gears. I.e. it won't be cheap. It would almost be cheaper to just buy a used 125/150 lump. You could slap on a 125/150 top end and leave the gearing as-is, but it'd be a bit bucky I think. Best of luck! |
UTC
Hooked
Vespa P200, Primavera 130, VNA200, Italjet Pack-a-Way Moped, Ciao etc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 322 Location: Humboldt County, California |
|
Hooked
Vespa P200, Primavera 130, VNA200, Italjet Pack-a-Way Moped, Ciao etc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 322 Location: Humboldt County, California |
UTC
quote
Check that engine
Check to see if its already a 125 or 150. Pirate Imports in Texas imported PX80s and slapped 150 kits (or maybe complete 150 LMLs?) in them
I have friends here in Humboldt that have one. I couldn't tell riding it if the gearing was different, but the 150 makes it at least capable of 50-55 mph. Cool score! Dave |
|
|
UTC
quote
brentscheffler wrote: rob hodge wrote: almogavar1969 wrote: first congrats! second - yeah ignition keys on early P's are useless. You can easily break the ignition with a screwdriver or blank key. You can buy a brand new complete ignition with keys. third - P80X was a German market only version for licensing/learner laws. It had shorter stroke and 80cc cylinder. Cases are 125/150. First thing I would do is upgrade the crank and cylinder and convert to electronic ignition (and of course the carb to appropriate size). They are horribly slow and dangerous. 40mph slow. Its like trying to drive an RV with a VW beetle engine up Pikes Peak. there also are a slew of other internal differences. while they are p125/150 based, they are not the same in the gearbox. if you order internal parts for this- i'd recommend making sure you talk to somone who is familiar with them first. some of the more significant differences are that the clutch and primary are different gearing and the Christmas tree is unique to the P80's, and takes different bearings. the loose gears in the transmission are all different as well. the case can't take a standard p125 transmission without a special custom christmas tree shaft, due to the holes being machined differently. http://www.sip-scootershop.com/main/base/Details.aspx?ProductNumber=88211000 And as Rob mentioned, you'd also need a new bearing for it, christmas tree cluster, cush drive, clutch gear, and a set of gears. I.e. it won't be cheap. It would almost be cheaper to just buy a used 125/150 lump. You could slap on a 125/150 top end and leave the gearing as-is, but it'd be a bit bucky I think. Best of luck! even at that, a swap isn't as easy as that- there are a few nuances due to the many different swaps piaggio did to the lower christmas tree bearing over the years. I just wanted to stress that these aren't just 'p125 engines with a goofy crankshaft', so you know in case you ever want to rebuild it. even the needle bearings in the christmas tree are different on the p80's, and they are the only largeframe that uses anything besides the normal ones you are used to seeing. |
Hooked
65 VNC Super, Series 1 50n (136), 50s, PX150, Douglas G, Ciao, Si, PX200E, PX vespacross project, Douglas Rod
Joined: UTC
Posts: 291 Location: Victoria |
UTC
quote
I still say ride it like there's no tomorrow. Underpowered bikes can be a whole lot of fun in their own way. You'll be hooked in no time and find yourself selling stuff to buy the Vespa you need.
|
Molto Verboso
2005 PX150 In a Part-time Relationship with a 2-Stroke Vespa Since 2007
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1873 |
UTC
quote
Blank has a point. I'd just ride it and see how it feels and try to figure out what it's currently got. Just because it says 80 on it doesn't mean someone else hasn't already changed that in all these years. Then, if you like it enough to imagine it having more power, shop around for a used 125/150 or even 200 engine, rebuild that on the side, then drop that engine in and be happy.
|
OP
|
UTC
quote
You guys: thanks for all the great ideas! I think for now I'll just toss on some new tires and battery and ride it like a mad man. I agree that it's a lot of fun to really wring out a weaker bike.
|
OP
|
UTC
quote
It's time to to revive this old thread! Flash forward to 2022, and my P80X is nearly buttoned up. This year, it got a whole top-to-bottom makeover: bodywork, paint, new seat, new wiring harness, and an engine overhaul + upgrade. I got it started this Monday and gave it a couple of loops around the culdesac: this was awesome.
I am, however, blowing fuses. I had the electrics sorted before tossing the engine in. Lights, horn, indicators, etc., all were happy as can be. I had to rewire the stator (2 red wires, like a P200E). There are no shorts there, as far as I can tell, but I still need to check resistance there to be sure it's happy. I'm 80% certain the 5-wire reg/rec isn't regulating, as my test ride (with a blown fuse) blew out a taillight. All of this is backstory for my other electrical gremlin. Watch this video: https://youtu.be/IpmnQvi0nDE I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the kill switch. It did not seem to work to stop the engine. In the above video, you see me flicking the kill switch to the right, and the flywheel moves. What is even happening there? The kill switch grounds the engine, right? Does the kill switch rely on a working fuse to kill the engine? A working reg/rec? The wiring harness is brand new, and I can trace the 2nd green wire at the ignition coil to the wiring under the horn cover (and up to the kill switch). The kill switch+headlight+horn switches are all original.[/url] Would love your input! |
OP
|
UTC
quote
Tested the stator just now and it's golden (ohms are right in spec). With kill switch flicked, its green wire at the ignition coil should be grounded, but it is not! Which means I've got funny wiring up in the headset, right?
|
Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8580 Location: Hustletown, TX |
UTC
quote
Open the junction box under the the horn cast and make sure the green isn't grounding to another wire there. Pop the headset and check the same
⚠️ Last edited by Birdsnest on UTC; edited 1 time
|
Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1347 Location: Deep in the heart of Texas |
UTC
quote
Blown fuse usually battery connections are wrong somewhere.
No kill on new wiring harness maybe wires not hooked up correctly. Chase is down from headset, behind the horn to the junction box onto the cdi. Need a wiring diagram to make sure all connections are correct. Good luck! |
OP
|
UTC
quote
Welcome to the weird world of Euro-spec wiring harnesses. I've spent the last couple of nights working through the headset area, and I think everything is to spec. I initially followed pictures of the original wiring harness back in 2017, but the wiring was so crumbly, corroded, and discolored that it's not easy to tell which wires are which. There was a small tree growing through the front fork column...
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/download/article/1/pdf/ca313ac5-6f38-49d2-98ea-edbe9757b366/schaltplan_86130000.pdf?contentType=application-pdf My CDI/coil green wire goes directly to the key switch (8-way key). Handlebar switches have turn signal on the left-hand side and from left to right on the right-hand side: kill switch, high/low, horn. The kill switch has a purple wire going down to the reg/rec and, as currently wired with the key switched to On, seems to connect to black/white, brown (headlight switch is set to low), pink (to horn), and black (ground) no matter the switch position. When I flick the kill switch to kill (to the right) with battery plugged in, headlight dims quite a bit, that clunk happens down in the stator and voltage drops to about 8 volts. Pretty sure it's dumping power back into the coil via the reg/rec which seems BAD. The only difference I can see from my wiring to the diagram is how I had to wire the yellow + gray wires. Yellow is the parking lamp up front, and gray feeds back to the rear light (not brake light). I've got two bulbs in the stoplight assembly (one for brake, one for parking + always on). According to the wiring diagram, my key switch should we wired thusly:
Pin 2: Nothing Pin 3: Red Pin 4: Yellow + Gray Pin 5: Gray Pin 6: Black/White Pin 7: Black Pin 8: Green (to ignition coil)
Pin 2: Gray Pin 3: Red Pin 4: Yellow Pin 5: Gray Pin 6: Black/White Pin 7: Black Pin 8: Green (to ignition coil) What should I dig into next, you think? |
OP
|
UTC
quote
Okay, so detective hat back on. Found this post 1981 P200E electrical system and key switch which got me thinking.
So I disconnect gray from pole 2, and with the key to ON, I get horn, blinkers, brake light (lever pressed), and nothing else. Start up the scooter, and I get horn, blinkers, brake light, tail light, illuminated speedometer, and headlights. Rad! The "kill switch" seems to turn lights on/off...which might be all it is meant to do? So I'm always running AC to the main lights with switch to ON. However, the reg/rec is definitely trying to cook the battery. 15-16V with the engine idling! Fortunately, I do have a replacement arriving today. |
Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.