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UTC quote
Hi all, been a while since I posted. I've kinda lost my mojo now that I'm at the bodywork / paint stage. I really enjoy the mechanics, but this stuff just doesn't float my boat. Starting to think I shoulda bought something with an ok body, but.... i didn't.

When I first got my VGLA it had a bent front fork and an odd front fender from another model. I ended up scoring a new (old) fork to suit 10" and VBB front fender (which I've sanded the paint from). I've just put the 2 together and installed them into the frame.

When i first got the scoot, the front fender rubbed on the body, now the new one does too, even with the straight fork. I'm thinking I just need to do some panel beating and flatten the top of the fender a bit to stop it from rubbing the body, but I wanted to post a couple of pics here in case I've installed the fork incorrectly...? (I've got the steering column bearings in top and bottom)

Cheers.
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2 reds & a blue...
2 reds & a blue...
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UTC quote
seems
cant tell but have you got the locking washer that locates in the groove at the top between the 2 'nuts'?
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Re: seems
T5bitza69 wrote:
cant tell but have you got the locking washer that locates in the groove at the top between the 2 'nuts'?
Good pick up, no i haven't, but I have one... To fit that in, I'm going to need to lift the fork up higher as it's running out of thread. I think (hope) i can do that. I may also have thinner 'nuts' from the original fork which might fit in better.

But otherwise, nothing major looks odd, do you think I just need to belt the fender flat a bit?
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UTC quote
chime
not sure why it rubbing though ... bottom bearing race installed?
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Re: chime
T5bitza69 wrote:
not sure why it rubbing though ... bottom bearing race installed?
Yep, I'm pretty sure I put in all the bits. The top piece of the bottom bearing race was already in the frame, I then put the bottom piece onto the fork and the bearings in between, and that was it. I suspect it's just not a perfect match and some hammering should sort it out...
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It's an 8" fender on a 10" fork, right? Yeah, it's gonna need some whacking & tweaking to clear the frame.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

It looks like you could redrill the mounting holes and dremel out the big hole as needed to move the top over to the left & center it up better. Looks tilted as it is.

Also, be sure you use that tabbed washer on final assembly. It insures those 2 nuts don't come loose, or worse, tighten up on you when riding.
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V oodoo wrote:
It's an 8" fender on a 10" fork, right? Yeah, it's gonna need some whacking & tweaking to clear the frame.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

It looks like you could redrill the mounting holes and dremel out the big hole as needed to move the top over to the left & center it up better. Looks tilted as it is.

Also, be sure you use that tabbed washer on final assembly. It insures those 2 nuts don't come loose, or worse, tighten up on you when riding.
Good point - it is an 8" on a 10" fork!

You're right re the straightness. In these photos I haven't put the side screws in which help straighten it up a bit. But you're right, it needs a bit of work!
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UTC quote
Pretty sure that early gl takes a vs4 mudguard

You may be able to buy new or if you want I've got one. Probably be 25 postage plus I'll ask 45 bucks for it.
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UTC quote
Are you using a ball bearing race at the bottom or individual bearings. For ease I used the bearing race, but found that the fork would not sit correct and when you tighten the nut at the top it would crush the bottom bearing race, causing the bearings to fall out the race. Its ok to use the race for the top but not the bottom.
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UTC quote
joshzingzing wrote:
Pretty sure that early gl takes a vs4 mudguard

You may be able to buy new or if you want I've got one. Probably be 25 postage plus I'll ask 45 bucks for it.
Thanks Josh, I'll look into it. This could be a good option. Your fender didn't happen to come with the fork?
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GLscoot wrote:
Are you using a ball bearing race at the bottom or individual bearings. For ease I used the bearing race, but found that the fork would not sit correct and when you tighten the nut at the top it would crush the bottom bearing race, causing the bearings to fall out the race. Its ok to use the race for the top but not the bottom.
Ok, good tip. I'm using a race at the bottom and top, so I'll change tact. I also heard the races don't roll as smoothly, so I was already thinking about this change. Cheers
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UTC quote
jimbod wrote:
GLscoot wrote:
Are you using a ball bearing race at the bottom or individual bearings. For ease I used the bearing race, but found that the fork would not sit correct and when you tighten the nut at the top it would crush the bottom bearing race, causing the bearings to fall out the race. Its ok to use the race for the top but not the bottom.
Ok, good tip. I'm using a race at the bottom and top, so I'll change tact. I also heard the races don't roll as smoothly, so I was already thinking about this change. Cheers
The races do not dictate if they roll smoothly. All they do is provide an easy way to install the bearings. If you have a race and old cups, the cups can get dented were the balls sit and they will start to get a "notched" feeling to them. This can be remedied by installing the balls without the race as you will put in more balls and they will not line up with the dents in the cups. We used to do this trick all the time in the bike business. Plus with more balls you have more surface area and a stronger set up.
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Hadn't heard from you for that long I naturally assumed you'd been hit by a bus...


I'd try it this way - get someone to sit on/hold the scooter steady. Then grab the front of the mudguard and lift. It'll cause the back to come forward and clear the body. Bit of a bodge but it can work. Or, you can place washers between the guard and the fork to change the angle.
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UTC quote
That would work well if hitting the legshield was the only problem, I've done exactly as you describe. But to me, the lopsided effect looking from the front could be a tougher problem. The 8" muddy on a 10" fork doesn't seem centered right. I had the same issue w/ an 8" muddy on a P fork and had to relocate the mounting holes to move it over. Looks much like mine before shifting the pattern to the right.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I understand it's not as lopsided now with the rest of the bolts in, but the top of the muddy still seems way over to the right
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text


after shifting mine, it was centered at the top & MUCH better straight up & down
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msprygada wrote:
The races do not dictate if they roll smoothly. All they do is provide an easy way to install the bearings. If you have a race and old cups, the cups can get dented were the balls sit and they will start to get a "notched" feeling to them. This can be remedied by installing the balls without the race as you will put in more balls and they will not line up with the dents in the cups. We used to do this trick all the time in the bike business. Plus with more balls you have more surface area and a stronger set up.
I think I got the terminology wrong, I've installed the below SIP bearing set, more or less. I thought the metal holding the bearings together was the "race"... Now with one quick google I can see that the race is what the bearings run along.

Based on your suggestion, i'd better clean the paint off of the races. Maybe after I finish the paint, sometime in 2020...
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Ginch wrote:
Hadn't heard from you for that long I naturally assumed you'd been hit by a bus...


I'd try it this way - get someone to sit on/hold the scooter steady. Then grab the front of the mudguard and lift. It'll cause the back to come forward and clear the body. Bit of a bodge but it can work. Or, you can place washers between the guard and the fork to change the angle.
I did get hit by a bus, had CBF down the side.

I like your bodge option, I think I know just the person...
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V oodoo wrote:
That would work well if hitting the legshield was the only problem, I've done exactly as you describe. But to me, the lopsided effect looking from the front could be a tougher problem. The 8" muddy on a 10" fork doesn't seem centered right. I had the same issue w/ an 8" muddy on a P fork and had to relocate the mounting holes to move it over. Looks much like mine before shifting the pattern to the right.

I understand it's not as lopsided now with the rest of the bolts in, but the top of the muddy still seems way over to the right

after shifting mine, it was centered at the top & MUCH better straight up & down
Yeah, you're right, it needs to be centered. Seems odd that there'd be this difference between the two.

Yours looks great, you can't tell you've tampered with it all. If I haven't mentioned it previously, I love your scoot V oodoo, the whole package: highlights for me is are the yellow light and handlebars.
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jimbod wrote:
msprygada wrote:
The races do not dictate if they roll smoothly. All they do is provide an easy way to install the bearings. If you have a race and old cups, the cups can get dented were the balls sit and they will start to get a "notched" feeling to them. This can be remedied by installing the balls without the race as you will put in more balls and they will not line up with the dents in the cups. We used to do this trick all the time in the bike business. Plus with more balls you have more surface area and a stronger set up.
I think I got the terminology wrong, I've installed the below SIP bearing set, more or less. I thought the metal holding the bearings together was the "race"... Now with one quick google I can see that the race is what the bearings run along.

Based on your suggestion, i'd better clean the paint off of the races. Maybe after I finish the paint, sometime in 2020...
Oops.... My bad. The bearings are held by the cage.
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I used a go fork on my vba with vba guard it took some time and effort to get it to look correct but was worth it in the end
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ssteam177 wrote:
I used a go fork on my vba with vba guard it took some time and effort to get it to look correct but was worth it in the end
now there's a couple of nice looking scooters. Love both those colors.
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ssteam177 wrote:
but was worth it in the end
It certainly was!
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checks...
2 things to check:

there is a chance the accident has pushed the column & therefore the angle of the top 1/2 of th cowl is further forward at the top, which will push the bottom of the fork (& therefore the guard) backwards & it will hit where yours does.

did you actually remove the lower cup (they are a bitch to remove, & often forgotten), as this would make the column not come out as high at the top, hence lack of thread at top.
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SubEtherBASS wrote:
2 things to check:

there is a chance the accident has pushed the column & therefore the angle of the top 1/2 of th cowl is further forward at the top, which will push the bottom of the fork (& therefore the guard) backwards & it will hit where yours does.

did you actually remove the lower cup (they are a bitch to remove, & often forgotten), as this would make the column not come out as high at the top, hence lack of thread at top.
To your first point, I'll have to measure.

Point 2, I did not insert the lower cup, I've just left the existing one there and, if ok, I'll leave it?
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jimbod wrote:
SubEtherBASS wrote:
2 things to check:

there is a chance the accident has pushed the column & therefore the angle of the top 1/2 of th cowl is further forward at the top, which will push the bottom of the fork (& therefore the guard) backwards & it will hit where yours does.

did you actually remove the lower cup (they are a bitch to remove, & often forgotten), as this would make the column not come out as high at the top, hence lack of thread at top.
To your first point, I'll have to measure.

Point 2, I did not insert the lower cup, I've just left the existing one there and, if ok, I'll leave it?
So here are the measurements and where I measured from:

Length 1 is from the top of the steering column on the frame, straight line to the fuel tank hole: distance approx 490mm

Length 2 is from the top of the steering column on the frame, straight line to most forward bolt hole for the seat: 383mm. Distance to start of seat on frame looks to be about 360mm...

Do you reckon the frame is bent???
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Length 1
Length 1
Length 2
Length 2
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UTC quote
Distance to start of seat on frame looks to be about 360mm...
Ginchi (& others) has correct measurment from memory.
### SOMEONE please chime up on this one ###

Once we determine that its all good, then we can sort out your front end
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I'm getting 360-370mm on 3 frames. That's measured between the 'collar' at the top of the steering tube, and the forward most part of the frame near the seat. So that tallies with Jimbod's pictures.

On a frame that has been hit in the front (badly bent fork), the distance was 385mm.
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well, thats a nicer bit of news than it could have been.
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Ginch wrote:
I'm getting 360-370mm on 3 frames. That's measured between the 'collar' at the top of the steering tube, and the forward most part of the frame near the seat. So that tallies with Jimbod's pictures.

On a frame that has been hit in the front (badly bent fork), the distance was 385mm.
Awesome

Thanks Ginchi!

And thanks SEB for the idea, at least i can progress from here pretty easy.
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HammerTime
Now it's confirmed to be straight... Lets et out the hammers to straighten it more!
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you're a scary man subether. That's the second hammer reference in regards to fixing a vehicle in the past 60 minutes I have seen from you
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Flamin' Dangerous
That is due to my refraining from mentioning the Blowtorch...
My oxy kit needs new hoses.
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Nix on the hammer fix... all that bog will fall out with the shock!
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Ginch wrote:
Nix on the hammer fix... all that bog will fall out with the shock!
Additional reason for the investment in good shocks, minimise bog fall out.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
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UTC quote
It's a deep bog
I had a crack at straightening the front fender: grinding some away and re-drilling the holes. Put it back on today and I think it looks pretty good, but not perfect. I think it could be good enough for now...

At first i put the fender on loosely, without the nuts at the top of the fender - holding it to the fork - done up tightly, and with the clamp holding the side of the fender to the fork, it looks pretty straight (see top photo). I also added the headset and a tyre to get me really excited...

HOWEVER, once I tightened the nuts that hold the top of the fender to the fork and put it all back in, it didn't look so straight (second photo), better than prior to tinker, but not perfect...

I'm not sure whether I should further tinker with it or not. I'm thinking of aiming for a rat look for now, so perfection is not high on the agenda. i can always come back to it later down the track if it really shits me.

The fender is still scraping against the leg shield but I'm thinking it's the deep bog on the leg shield causing the grief, rather than the shape of the fender. Checkout the deepness around the rivet hole, nasty!

You can clearly see where the fender is hitting the leg shield in the bottom photo, where it's worn away some of the bog on the leg shield, and I was thinking of just sanding away some of the bog back to the metal, just in this spot. It's right behind the fender so you shouldn't really see it when the scoot is finished.

Do you think there's any issues with me sanding away some of the bog there?

(my fear is if I put a hole in the bog, once I hit some potholes it'll all start falling out around the hole)
Before tightening the nuts
Before tightening the nuts
Tight nuts - that's what she said!
Tight nuts - that's what she said!
deep bog
deep bog
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Try a washer in between the fork and mudguard (front hole only) before doing anything about the bog... it should lift the front and bring the rear forward. You'll have plenty of time later to deal with that bog, I'm sure.
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@pullmyfinger avatar
Some Vespa, some Yamaha, some Suzuki, some Kawasaki...
Joined: UTC
Posts: 194
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
UTC quote
one time i restored a vintage and the fender rubbed the body because the bike was in a collision. i didn't realize it initially, but upon close inspection i saw kinks in the front of the frame. these machines are old and no telling what they went through.
@subetherbass avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4696
Location: Australa, Mate
 
Ossessionato
@subetherbass avatar
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4696
Location: Australa, Mate
UTC quote
Washers... Make great spacers, & better than beer-can sims.
OP
@jimbod avatar
UTC

Hooked
61 VGLA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 217
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 
Hooked
@jimbod avatar
61 VGLA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 217
Location: Melbourne, Australia
UTC quote
Alright, I'll try some washers.

Only problem here could be that the fender will then hit the frame below the horn as it's very close at the moment...
OP
@jimbod avatar
UTC

Hooked
61 VGLA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 217
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 
Hooked
@jimbod avatar
61 VGLA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 217
Location: Melbourne, Australia
UTC quote
pullmyfinger wrote:
one time i restored a vintage and the fender rubbed the body because the bike was in a collision. i didn't realize it initially, but upon close inspection i saw kinks in the front of the frame. these machines are old and no telling what they went through.
Yeah, I'm hoping it's more about the fender being off another scoot, as is the fork. But, I'm pretty sure this things been in a crash too. The curved rear end ain't quite right...
⬆️    About 4 years elapsed    ⬇️
@lynnb avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2542
 
Ossessionato
@lynnb avatar
1963 VBB2T
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2542
UTC quote
Just browsing around and came across this, hows it going, did you get it together?
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