Modern Vespa

Pros and Cons? Thoughts on being your Independence day?

It upsets me so much I can't even talk about it.

Bill xxx

Thanks to the silly people (being very polite) who wanted to leave, it now costs more to import goods either from Europe or the USA.

Scotland never wanted to leave. Now we're suffering.

it'll be interesting to see how long this runs without getting political

I'm ashamed to be British - and yesterday joined a political party for the first time in my life. There only seem to be one that's acted like grown-ups over the last few years, and put the interests of the country above their own ambitions.

ashamed to be British - hell, I'm even ashamed to admit that I live here.

I had all my ducks in a row to apply for British citizenship - needless to say that project has been shelved. I'm proudly Canadian and plan to remain that way

wow, Jim, who would that be????? they all seem to be acting like either thugs or petulant children - or both - at the moment (you can pm me your answer )

Especially seeing it's political by nature.

But then again, I'm interested in peoples' opinions. I'll stay out of things seeing I wasn't asked. It is, comforting to think we're not alone in our goofiness on this side of the Pond.

I don't understand, as an American I am very proud of our independence. It is my belief, for what ever it is worth, Being in the EU you sold your Brittish identity for a EU identity. All the sacrifices your forefathers did so you can call yourself a Independent Brit was thrown away when you entered the EU. In my time living in Italy and Germany I find that European Kids call themselves European not German, French or whatever. Is this the case? If so, isn't that a bad thing? Your opinions please.

'independence' doesn't have quite the same meaning over this side of the pond. I've only been here for 18 years but my impression is that joining the EU wasn't a matter of 'selling' one's original national identity, it was a matter of gaining a second one. Most Brits I know were proud to be European citizens, and it didn't compromise their British identity in any way.

Imagine NAFTA with the privilege of free movement - it doesn't make you any less a citizen of your own country, it just makes things easier and cheaper.

Sends for application form to be proudly Canadian.

Bill x

NAFTA was/is a very limited trade agreement that in most people's opinion doesn't work to well. The EU decides tax, border and many other highly important issues. Important decisions are being made for your country in Belgium and from what I'm reading Not very effectively. Am I correct? I also read that the younger voters voted to stay?

To be honest, I'm excited.

I'm excited to see what our plucky little country can do with this. Great things could happen so long as the right people lead us forward.

We could do great things with this vote people, and its sad seeing people ashamed to be British. It doesn't change who we are, it just shows that there's is a majority that wants a change, that's all.

I do understand there was a lot deceiving politicians, possibly lying through their teeth during this referendum, but the end result is still the same. There's enough people in this country that feel uncomfortable with our presents in the EU and the possible future implications it may hold.

I personally believe the second the EU became a political union, it was wrong. And like it or not we lost our say in quite a few important things.

Now, I'm sure topics like this are on shady footing. We should tread carefully.

'The EU' isn't a load of Belgians making all of the decisions for us. The European Parliament is made up of representatives from all of the member states. It's a large, lumbering, unwieldy organisation, not without its problems. But being a member of the EU has brought us some very good things apart from freedom of movement: some very good legislation on worker's rights, human rights, and environment, masses of funding for scientific research, loans for large capital projects, highly skilled doctors and nurses to staff our health service etc. etc. etc.

The reasons for the Brexit vote are too complex - and too political - to get into here. But you're right in stating that the majority of younger voters wanted to stay. They've grown up with the right to live, work, and get an education in any European country that they want, and quite understandably they didn't want to lose that right.

I admire your optimism now, where are those 'right people' hiding .... ?

You see, that's the downside. I dont think the current people in our government quite know what to do.

I've heard and also agree with a lot of people wanting a general election. We obviously need policy makers with leaving the eu as one of there ambitions. Not referring to ukip at all here! Just some fresh thinkers with some ambition.

I know the eu has bought us some great policy's but am a very strong believer in democracy. I believe anything that gets suggested to a country should be put by the people, we live in it! That way we still get the policy's we want and matter. There should be a group of representatives that meet to discuss issues that reflect across the continent, but they shouldn't be the people who can then vote on the matters. That should always fall to the population that will be effected by the vote. Unless I'm missing something here in sure us as a people don't get a say on what the MEP's decide.



If that post is too far politics wise, feel free to remove at sight.

The vast majority of the world is not in the EU. This does not bother the vast majority of the citizens of the vast majority of the world.

The EU is an economic failure that is costly to belong to, reduces your ability to have decisions that impact you made democratically and is saddled with massive debt that the few net contributors will have to finance at some time in the future. On top of this a country like the UK which is already overcrowded cannot control the numbers of people coming in.

I would be very surprised if the citizens of the USA, Canada or those of the countries on the majority of the world that exist quite well outside of the EU would vote to join such a "Union".

I don't live in the UK and could not vote in the referendum, even though I have spent the majority of my life there and I am an Englishman by birth and ancestry. Nevertheless I am neither surprised, dismayed or ashamed by the Leave vote. Having made this decision the country now needs fresh political leadership to make the most of the new opportunities, rather than to cling any longer than absolutely necessary to an organisation that does not put the interests of its own people first.

I will always respect and love the great country of Great Britan in or out of the EU. You gave birth to the U.S. , Canada and to Austalia all great democracies.
BTW, of all the cities I've been to around the world London is my favorite!!
My non existent vote goes to exit. Your a great country and you will do more than just ok on your own. ( you've been doing it right for over 1,000 years )

Couldn't you say exactly the same thing about how the United States makes essentially all of those same decisions for North Carolina? That's okay, but you are telling others that a similar role for the EU is unacceptable? Seems like you have to really be in someone else's shoes to understand their situation. Having said all that, I personally don't get the Brexit. Great Britain -> Little England. Who gains?

Depending upon how the election goes here, I may be in line behind you... Along with many others... I'll take either Nova Scotia or British Columbia...

I've got dibs on British Columbia.

The plot lines make coronation st seem believable.

Was it not political from the original subject line?

I mean I don't care and am interested in these responses but I'm just sayin...

😁

SDG

It's not really 'Party Political'. More political with a small 'p'. And most importantly, it's not US political.

It's more - "What the fuck do we do now?" for all Brits. No-one had any plan for after the event (sound familiar?) so it's all guesswork from here on in.

I remember the hope of the ideas of Jean Monnet and also Winston Churchill's. The EU is mainly there to prevent another European war - and we should have remained around the table.

Sod the economics - our children want peace.

Fascinating. Thank you Jim

SDG

Apologies to everyone who thought Coro was a documentary.

Well spoken. Or "hear him, hear him" as the Brits say.

Even though I'm gone agree with this statement, I find your remark strange being the only European country to collect as it does Contributes .....

I think no matter which side of the pond you are on, or if you are just in the park; this election season needs a warning.

I think this will do"

These days, lots of people cry for democracy and then specify that the will of the majority of the people is being neglected. Often these people feel they are part of the majority, if only because their personal echo-chamber tells them so.

I always believed that "the majority has the say" is only one half of the definition of democracy. The other half would be "with special consideration to minorities". I wouldn't want to live in a totalitarian state where only the majority decides. The majority of voters are currently eroding democracy in Hungary and Poland. But of course they do that in a democratic way, so it must be right.

Not British, obviously, so no actual opinion here, but looking at it from outside, staying in the EU seemed like a good idea to me. But then I saw some of the "technocrats" in Brussels on the TV and I couldn't quite put my finger on who they reminded me of and what was so creepy about them until...that's it! They reminded me of the people who run FIFA! Maybe that's what turned just enough people off.

I had a little giggle at this post, bearing in mind how vocal their Head Honcho is regarding breaking up the union with the UK. Europe told Scotland they would not be able to remain in the EU should they have voted for independence back in 2014. Well that vote was remain, now the UK have voted out of the EU she's kicking up a fuss and want's another Scottish vote of independence, despite, once again, being told by the EU Scotland could not join up to the EU. If they get another vote and split up the Union then they are on their own. Who'd pay for the free prescriptions, University places and tax cuts then?

Well no opinion on it that makes any difference now - however, lots of argument about whether the actually vote is binding. Technically advisory only because Parliament needs to ratify the decision by an act. Some people are complaining about this but it's actually how our system works so its foolish to say that you can "take back control" and then discover that the old system you have means that Parliament gets the ultimate say. We don't live in a direct democracy. That's very important for what happens next.

Brexit will happen. The issue is what is it? No one appears to know. Plans are being drawn up while there is political chaos. The political chaos is however a problem because how Brexit will work is going to be dictated by the Government of the day. It is not an inert thing. No law is non political - so it might be that many people who voted for change will certainly get it - however it may not be actually to their benefit. What do you ditch and what do you keep, legally? A politician is going to make that decision.

It's not a secret that most of the British Establishment did not want Brexit. Yet you'd be daft to imagine that they won't make sure they come out of it well - they certainly will make sure of that before anything else. It gives them power. Politicians like that best of all.

Good point about North Carilina. Federal verse State rights, they'd the question in the U.S. The BIG difference is that Britain is NOT a state in the EU they are an Independent country.

Well it depends what you think NATO is for - does it protect us from the Russians or the Germans?

The old civil servants joke is that the European Union was created so that the Germans could reapply for entry to the human race after the war, the French wanted to support their farmers and the Italians wanted an economy.

Churchill approved of the idea of a European family of nations but he didn't support Britain being part of it....we are an island people....

Well said.

As i've expressed on another thread i'm not happy at all. We were sold down the river by f***ing morons.
Just hoping Scotland get the independance vote again.
My grandad was Scottish so hoping to move there within the next couple of years.

For the record..... After 25 years I closed my business last Friday, in no small part due to this.

It's been emotional

To those i've ignored..... sorry, but things were pressing.

Anyone want an orange GTS?

Like most things in politics..

If we'd voted remain, a few would have made a lot of money and a few would have lost a lot of money and the 99.9% left would be worse off

Because we voted leave, a few will make a lot of money and a few will lose a lot of money and the 99.9% left will be worse off