Modern Vespa

It's been a couple of years since I've posted anything and I finally have had the time to renovate what will be my daily rider: a previously neglected 2005 PX150 that sat under a tree and then on a screen porch for most of it's life. I picked it up off CL a couple of years ago (sight unseen) and prayed it wasn't too bad off, it only has 1200 miles and was fitted with a Sito+ and properly jetted, so someone at some point knew what they were doing. It started and ran fine 2 years ago before I drained and prepped for long storage.

I've spent hours stripping it down (when I took the tank out, the gas line literally
snapped in half - gotta love this new ethanol $#!T gas). I had a few rust spots fixed on the floorboards and have cleaned everything and it's looking really good. I wanted to get it as close to new as possible since there's no way to get a new shifty stateside anymore.

I've stockpiled parts for 2 years in preparation for this rebuild and I'm making good progress, but I've found myself at a crossroads and am in need of some advice: I'm about to pull the carb to rebuild it and I'm wondering if I should just get a 24/24 as I'm pretty sure I want to put a 177cc kit on. Are the 24/24 carbs a straight plug and play swap on the PX 150?

These are the mods I'm considering (I want to drive it as is before I spend any more cash, maybe it will have enough power in the hills with my wife as a passenger).

24/24 carb or will a 20/20 w/ a drilled air filter be fine with a 177cc kit?

177cc cylinder kit (most durable - I want a workhorse, not interested in screaming speed) Polini, DR, Malossi? I also want to keep the stock crank.

As I said, I've got a Sito+ on it atm (I bought an SIP Road 2 thinking the Sito was rusted out but after sandblasting, it's like new. A little VHT and it looks great, curious how well that paint will hold up)

I've read through many threads here about PX upgrades, but they are all from 2005-9, and I figure there might be new products out and new opinions after years of tinkering with these.

So I ask what you fellows would do to make this a solid, strong rider. I did grab a pair of Carbone shocks as well and am about to put those on. I'm still days away from operational sadly.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Cheers!

looks like your headed in right direction.

Thanks Almo.

I'll post more pics as it progresses. I got some parts back from the powdercoater and put some pretty nice wheels together.

BTW, I found a good thread on 177 kits, sounds like a DR will be fine.

id skip the DR. I'd recommend the BGM but I believe there are clearance issues with starter ring on flywheel. Then if go polini. As for carb. For 24mm you need the 24mm box or match the old one.

Cool, thanks man. The more posts I read, the more I'm inclined to leave the carb stock & just drill out the filter. Seems like the major power increase comes from the better pipe, which I have. Plenty of time to tune it once it's actually running. Cheers

no a chamber can hurt power on a stock bike. A clubman/sport box exhaust will help give extra go on a stock motor. The Sito is not the greatest. It was good back in the day when ur cane out. The new BGM/SIP/Megadella etc.give a good boost but will give best performance with a touring type set up. You want good power, get a kit, exhaust and at least up jet carb. You'll want to change primary to use new power in top end for better top speed.

Here are some before & afters with the freshly powder coated rims & tires and then the front wheel assembly with everything on. The wheels were a bitch to get off, as usual, but I perfected a technique that took less than 10 minutes and didn't mar the rims. Probably old news to many of you, but it was new to me.

A big pisser is that one of the rusted brake disc bolts stripped. I managed to get them all out and of course the last one wouldn't budge and started rounding. If anyone has any suggestions on breaking this thing free, please let me know. I've cut a slot into it to try a flat screwdriver ratchet bit this weekend. Not too concerned atm as the bolt is on and not going anywhere...

The front Carbone shock seems a lot stiffer than the stock one (which only had 1200 easy miles on it) and may be too harsh a ride for my liking. I don't know if these will soften/break in with use. I may not be keeping it. The back one is stiffer as well, but it should be fine with a passenger and when everything is back together with a full tanks.

I feel like I'm talking to an empty room, but hopefully someone is enjoying this.

Cheers

Looking good! 8)

Stock shocks are junk and not good for much. Smart move getting carbone

Use heat, PB blaster and a manual impact driver (you can pick it up at Harbor Freight, Sears or check the local auto supply stores in your area). I'd hit the disc with some brake cleaner after if you use PB blaster so ya don't muck up the pads.

I would also have someone support the wheel and handlebars while you remove the fastener.

Nice scoot btw!

Thanks guys.

Mr J, I appreciate the info, I'll track all that down this weekend. I didn't think of using the heatgun - I'll dig it out.

It is a real shame to abandon a vespa just like that. The least a prudent owner could do is to put a bed sheet or a small car cover. Too bad that you have to pick up on something that should had never happen.

I have a pristine Vespa PX150. Fortunately I do everything that I need to do to cover it, clean it and put some miles weekly. My red 05 PX looks extremely clean, so clean that people that don't know about these scooters keep telling me that they thought the scooter was new. My paint is pristine and rust spots are never heard off here in sunny AZ.

As far is the carburator, I put a spare 24mm that I had and later I put a 26mm and I noticed no change in performance. I am running a Malossi 166cc which I also DON'T recommend because of the lack of torque.

The Malossi enable me to pick a 15mph+ on the top but it is not quick accelerating. I would go for the BGM kit first. The PX with the OEM cylinder is weak and sluggish.

Like someone else said, you are already in the right path, you seem to care about this project although I think that buying a PX with a few more miles but in great condition can be found.

Looks good.

If you do go for the BGM you must remove the starter ring from the flywheel... meaning you can't use your electric start.

Very good to know about BGM. I don't want to start modding anything just yet. I was hoping for some straight up plug and play performance upgrades. I'll see what it can do for a few months before I start tinkering.

I totally agree, I can't imagine doing this to a virtually new scooter, but people get lazy for whatever reason. I did only pay $1500 for it (and up here in NYC the going rate was $3500+ for city ridden ones, which equals abuse). So it's totally worth it to put some elbow grease in and get this thing pristine again. It has a few nicks here and there but after clay bar/compound/wax it's looking really great.

More pics to come

Good day with the scooter: got the stripped brake bolt out after a little hammering and giant screw driver. Whew. But most important is I discovered the source of why gas has been pouring down the engine back (which probably prompted the owner to sell). Some innovative gasket work on the carb. So the $100 question is who put it there: the factory or the vespa dealer service who worked on it a few times. Wow. Also, every bolt in the carb was only finger tight. I guess it's really good the thing didn't blow up.

It also was not jetted correctly for the Sito+, so I hope the engine isn't damaged - they might have adjusted it super rich to compensate, it's been running 150, BE5, 95. I'm going to put a 102 in and see how that works at first.

Ok, more later...

That gasket looks correct. The large ones (that style) and the smaller fitting ones. As long as it fits the air box and doesn't block any oil passages you're good.

A quick internet search shows a stock PX150 with a 20/20 carb would run a 98 so 102 is a good start for that stock engine with a Sito +. The finger tight carb screws definitely would cause a leak. If you don't have one yet, replace all the carb and fuel banjo gaskets when you rebuild.

Wow. I had no idea that there were giant, uncut gaskets that are used. It looks like a total bodge.

So it turns out my jet kit has 105 -128 (it was an SIP kit I got a couple of years ago before I knew what to buy). I'll need to order a 102, and a few other things. I'm at sea level (NJ) so I'm not sure which direction to go with jets. Should I get a 100, 102 & 104, or should 102 be the highest and work my way down?

Doing a quick search threw out more questions than answers. I'm going to scour the forum tomorrow and try to figure out more. I'm curious as to why a 95 main was in there when most PX150 have 98 as stock...

Thanks for the tips

Never hurts to have extra jets, you may end up using a different exhaust or something.

Yeah, I guess I'm now ordering a bunch of stuff: jets, slide, gaskets... I was hoping to get it fired it up today, but this discovery has tabled that until the order arrives.

I've got a new SIP road 2 I bought thinking the Sito was toast, but it's not, so I figure I'll use it first (as the baseline) and then have a brand new SIP when the time comes to change. (hopefully with better performance??)

Cheers

I used to run a Sito+ on my otherwise pure stock 05 PX150 and the only upjetting needed was going from a 98 to a 102 and it ran fine for thousands of miles without any trouble. I believe a SIP Road will require about the same.

Once you start talking about modding it though, unless you have experience tuning engines and particularly 2T engines, expect some challenges.

And those giant triangular carb gaskets aren't bodge gaskets, they're convenient for that design of carb and airbox. Because of the long mix screw and the recessed back end of the airbox, the carb can't be simply lowered onto the studs and gasket like earlier models, it has to be sort of rolled into place from above and from the front, which has a tendency to dislodge the smaller gaskets. The big one is cut to exactly fit the back end of the airbox so it backs into the corner and doesn't move out of place.

Thanks for the help - It's obvious I've been out of the game for many years... that gasket makes perfect sense and is actually ingenious. I added a couple of those to my order. I got the SIP premium gasket kit since the box is now off the engine and everything is accessible, but always good to have spares.

The screw to the carb box had barely any tension on it, which is great, I was worried the box had gotten warped or something due to the amount of gas that had poured down the back.

I got this thing to ride and have shelved the desire to mount a cylinder kit for the time being. I'm sure it will be just fine with the upgraded pipe.

Since you have the carb and gasket off don't forget to check the air box screw. There's only one and if your carb was loose, it might be good to check that.

I have the whole box off and I was shocked at how loose every bolt inside the carb box was - no wonder it was pouring gas. I also loved finding 2 wires not plugged in on the CDI (under the rubber hood), how the hell did this thing run?

CDI surprise, but getting cleaner...

Are you sure those simply didn't come off when you pulled the rubber boot?
It'll run without the green kill switch wire, but I don't it will without all the other 3.
If they're loose, very gently squeeze them tighter with small needle nose pliers. You don't want loose wires there.

Yeah, they were definitely not connected. The red connector was totally misshapen & the white pushed up to the top of the hood. Crazy

Thanks for commenting by the way. I read the lengthy thread on your idling issue and found a lot of good info in it. I hope your scoot has settled down and you've been able to enjoy it. I had P200s back in the 80s & 90s and I'm curious how this newer 2005 PX is going to ride in comparison. I hope it's not too finicky, my Ps were like little tanks, took so much abuse and kept on ticking.

I can't complain about anything that I find since I got it at such a good price. I'm just shocked that the previous owner was able to ride it.

Of course, I really just wanted to be able to buy a brand new PX200 which is a total drag they aren't imported here. My life was too crazy back in 2005 to pick one of these up - in hindsight I totally should have. I know people got great deals on crated PXs once they sat at the dealers for a couple of years. Oh well

Well, how did it compares to the P200E that you had?
How much were the PX200 back in 2005?

I just bought a Pinasco Magny Cours 177 kit for my latest PX150 (a well used 2012 model), after deciding that I wanted to keep the electric start. My other PX150 has the BGM 177 which as mentioned means losing the elestart.

The Pinasco is not the most exciting kit, but it has a great piston with 1mm rings, central plug head with four additional securing bolts and it was only £207. I'm going to match it to the cases and run it with a Jasil 'mildly cut' crank, 24/24e, BGM BigBox Touring and 23/65 primary gearing.

I'll let you know what difference it makes to a stock and very slow PX150!!

I'm also interested to hear your results. That kit seems to be a popular one on the sip sit. Do the instructions say to open the rotary pad at all and if so by how much

I'm curious how that setup runs as well.

I've meaning to post pics of the finished scoot, but I've been really busy. Once I get the air horn wired in properly, I'll add some new pics. The thing has been running like a champ - plenty of headroom and speed once I nursed it back to health. At first the gears seemed very limited, but by breaking it in "again", I now have plenty of headroom and speed. I ended up getting a new Euro 20/20 carb (jetted for the Sito/SIP Road2) and it's great. 2nd gear seems a little clipped, but 3rd & 4th have nice range and acceleration.

colosseo: I do miss the P200's power, but I have no desire to take something this lightweight over 50mph any longer. I'd get a Café if I wanted more speed. All in all, I love it...

Witchtrip and Jimscoot, I've dropped the engine out and will be getting started on it in the next couple of days. I'll either start a thread in the projects forum or drop you a PM, rather than use the OP's thread !!

Sounds good - I'll keep an eye out. Cheers!

I realized I never posted a finished pic of the PX. Been running great so far. A few minor issues, but it's the nicest Vespa I've owned by far. \m/

I did grab a pair of Carbone shocks as well and am about to put those on....

I took off perfectly good standard shocks for Carbone (just to be "on the safe side" before a long trip with loads of gear). The front one started leaking oil within weeks. I wish I had left it alone. Nout wrong with standard shocks unless maybe you are a giant.

Good luck with your build and let us know how it goes.

Pinasco with long crank are flavour of the month around these parts. Keep autolube (and elestart) on 24mm carb and SIP R2. Haven't ridden one myself but seen them go very well on long rides. I have ridden a Quatrinni (px200 gearbox and big box touring pipe) and it was a blast; way way faster than std px200.

Cheers

PC73, I put the Carbone on and rode it for a couple of miles. They were way too stiff, so I swapped them for a set of YSS X pro (from SIP). Those are the ticket. Awesome. The front is adjustable and the ride it perfect (we have some bad roads in NJ).

I'm not going to mess with a cylinder kit, I've decided. I really would like 177cc but I have limited time and I don't know enough about tuning to really dial it in. I don't want to wreck anything. The euro 20/20 carb and Sito+ give me plenty of power.

Thanks for the post! Cheers

Cheers mate,

Yeah dude. I ride a stock standard 150 Sprint and its fine. Its much lighter than my px200 so still makes a reasonable pace. I won't be putting a kit on that either.

Good one, happy riding.