Modern Vespa

Hi Folks,

Just bought this Vespa 100 Sport small frame.


The front brake is total crap. When I got it it was all out of adjustment, and the lever would pull all the way without any braking action. I adjusted the brake at the adjuster on the front wheel until the lever would actuate after a normal amount of play. It seems to be adjusted well and the wheel turns smoothly.

Problem is, the braking action is still very bad. You have to pull VERY hard before you get any braking, and then when you do, it comes on really hard. When you're moving fast, and you pull the lever hard, you feel tension at the handle-lever but no braking action until you squeeze it VERY VERY hard.

What's up with this? How do you take the front wheel off to have a look?

Thank you,

In case you're not familiar 70s era Vespa brakes aren't the best, but they shouldn't be that bad.

You can remove the front hub by pulling the chrome center cap, pulling the cotter pin and unscrew the hub with a 19mm socket. If it's hard to get the hub off loosen the brake cable all the way so the brake pads aren't stretched out. Lightly sand the inside of the hub and clean everything with brake parts cleaner and then button back up to correct torque and a new cotter pin.

What MJ said plus I like to sand the brake shoes as well as inside the drums. Both are probably glazed so sand aggressively enough to bust the glaze. A bit more work while you have it apart - pull the shoes & actuator cam for cleaning and grease all the pivot points & cam faces. First file the cam faces on the actuator and shoe inserts smooth if they're galled.

Agree with Voodoo - if you're bucks down, sand the shoes and the drum. However if you have the coin, get some better shoes on there, like Newfren shoes with the grooves cut in. Just sayin' . I had a P200 I picked up years ago and the original brakes shoes were so hard that sanding did not help much. Also, the glue holding the shoe material on gave way during a short ride around the block. Semi locked up the front wheel and semi scared the crap outa me. When it comes to the safety end of these scoots, I don't go cheap anymore. I would rather walk.

Hi Folks,

I pulled the front wheel to gain access to the brake, and the shoes looked a little glazed and the hub of course pretty smooth. I roughed them up with some heavy grit and lubed the actuator, but I don't think this is the problem.

With the hub off, pulling the brake lever, it was still very tight and I think brake cable tension might be to blame. Is it possible a too-long brake cable was installed, and the angle is making it difficult to pull the lever?

Stops great with everything re-installed, but it's hard to pull the lever. Any tips on that?

One more question. Is there a trick to tightening the axle nut besides pulling the front brake? I would like it to tighten just a tiny bit more to get the cotter pin in, gotta tighten or loosen, of course I'd rather tighten.

Thanks!

Sounds like you need to remove the pivot and remove corrosion so it turns easier. Also can clean up the pivots for the shoes. Will make the brake action easier.

Any tips for getting the spring on and off? That's always a pain.

My small frame had an issue with rust in that area. In my case the pivot pin was seized. I disconnected the cable and pulled the brake shoes off. Used some penetrating oil on pivot pin the day before and tapped it out with a drift. I then wet sanded the pin and post, cleaned and greased them.

I was working on this yesterday...

Did you have to remove the spring first to get the shoes off? How do you do that and get it back on when it's compressed?

The spring on the pivot arm? The tension on the spring is produced by the brake shoes being in place. If you pry off the brake shoes the pivot pin and spring are free to turn. Does that make sense?

My experience with drum brake shoes with springs is that it is VERY difficult to get the shoes back on once you take them off because the spring will be compressed and you need to stretch it out somehow to get the shoes back in place. Is this correct?

The shoes are annoying to replace and remove. I think Scooter help has a tutorial on it. I looked at that because I always forget the process myself.

Can you link please? I tried google "scooter help brake shoes" and could not find it.

This is what I referenced when I did my shoes. It just takes some fiddling and a small dose of profanity.

Old shoes can be glazed and polished by heat and brake dust. In addition, old, neglected brakes tend to seize on the pivot pin, and then do not move when the lever is pulled, the shoes actually flex as you pull the lever, witch is much less effective and harder to pull. this can also cause the cable to stretch rather than pull.

whenever i get a bike in with questionable brakes, i do a full brake service.

first- a new cable, inner and outer. it matters on the outer. ones that are springy and made out of a coiled round wire do not work nearly as well as those made out of a flat material. they are much less rigid, and cause a spongy feel in the brakes. a quality cable outer makes much more difference than you'd think.

Second- the shoes. I would advise to get new shoes- but be picky on the ones you get. some of the budget ones are pretty worthless. Newfren's 'anti-aqua' shoes are about all i sell these days. much better than many of the other options out there, and pre-slotted to shed brake dust.

Removal on these is easy. Remove the brake drum via the nut in the center. you do not even need to remove the tire and rim from the drum.

remove the circlip on the brake post

Then, take a chisel or punch and put it along side the spring where it goes thru the 'ear' on the brake shoes. one sharp blow with a hammer will break it off.

Then wiggle the brake shoes up back and forth, one at a time, and wiggle them off the brake post.

remove the brake cam.

before you re-install, polish the pin with a band of sandpaper. floss it back and forth, rotating around.

then, clean the brake cam and brake cam hole.

run a finger of grease over the pivot pin, and grease and reinstall the cam.

hook the new shoes together with the spring. install the lower shoe onto the pin. now, hook the pad of the second shoe on the edge of the cam, and use the cam as a pivot to lever the pivot hole onto the pivot pin. then, slide it down or tap it onto place. it will pop into the slot on the cam.

clean up any excess grease, and reinstall the brake drum. if the brake drum is in poor shape, you may want to ru na piece of sandpaper over it but it shouldn't be necessary.

I would also advise changing the shock at the same time if it is original or older. it's a hair more convenient to do it while the drum is off, but not necessary.

i would not advise sanding brake shoes. older ones are made of some really nasty compounds, and the odds of you getting them to stay round while you sand them are not good. good new ones like $8.

there is a drum holding tool available. i have one in my shop and have sold one or two. it's good if you do this alot but probably overkill for someone doing it occasionally, unless they don't want to blow the money on a seldomly used tool.

Thanks folks!

This is sufficient advice to get started. I'll pull the pads next and fully clean the pivot pin.

The cable looks good, I'd like to do that last if cleaning the pivot pin doesn't solve the issue. Feeding cable on a vespa seems a bit tougher than on a motorcycle. Do you feed from the bottom or top?

On a smalframe, the front brake goes from the bottom.

laughably easy, actually. pull the old one, and feed the new one in thru the hole in the fork. keep pushing till it pops out the top of the fork.

Are you replacing the inner AND the outer cable?

If you're doing just the outer do what Rob said and push the outer from the bottom up and feed it through the cut outs in the throttle side tube. Take pics of how the old one is led before you rip it out.

If you are just replacing the front brake inner cable start at the top and just feed it down. You may have to unscrew the brake lever from its pivot pin in order to get the cable to fully insert. Watch out for the wavy washers that are lined up on the Phillips head pivot screw.

Anything is possible but is it likely to buy an incorrect sized cable for the 100 sport? I know on a lot of motorcycles it is possible and indeed somewhat likely to get an incorrect length cable due to the variety of handlebar types.... not so on a scooter, for obvious reasons!

Just grab the correct one from Scooter Centre and you'll know it's the right length.

Took the brake pads off yesterday and cleaned and lubed both brake pad posts. I also disconnected the cable at both ends to make sure it moved freely through the outer sheath. It did. I also ground off some of the outer layer of the brake pads and roughed up the hub.

Bolted back up and it pulls smoother than ever. Front brake is not as strong as the rear brake. That seems consistent with my P200e, is that normal for old vespas?

Yes, that has always been my experience. I actually adjust the front brake so it has a lot of play before in engages. This way you can slowly ease into braking and mitigate the notorious front end dive. The braking will never be great so you have to decide what you're comfortable with. As mentioned before, a slotted brake shoe, upgraded shock, new inner and outer cables all help but it's a personal choice. I usually just adjust my riding to anticipate some of these shortcomings.

Hi folks,

Resurrecting this thread.

I replaced my inner and outer front brake cable and the cable pulls smooth but the brake is still stiff as can be.

I think I need to pull the wheel again and take apart the shoes and sand and polish the pivots. I also want to replace the shoes. I can't find the "newfren anti aqua" shoes anywhere online though. Can someone help me with a link?

Thank you!