Modern Vespa

At 9,000 miles my first original piston cracked. I had a warranty that deflected all of the cost except $200. They replaced it with a new piston/ring/cylinder kit. I had my water pump go since then (another $700). I noticed some oil problems starting up after that point so I has them adjust the valves hoping that would help. Then I tried the ponydrv mod to see if it would push the oil back a tad. I now have 27,500 miles on the scoot.

Nope... all in vane. I was told I have a 30% blow-by and need a new piston/ring/cylinder kit. THIS IS NOW PISTON #3

I got a quote of $1,667 to do that work, flush out the rear brake and adjust the parking cable.

I asked to have a rep from Piaggio intervene. (Will that do any good?)


I hope this BS does not happen to anyone else!

I think if I was at 27,500 I would say thank you...

What would be the value in a Trade to a new 2016 500 ABS Sport.

Not a good trade?
Bring it home, start parting it out on ebay.

Take a Risk buy another used one, use your bike for backup parts, and part out the ones you don't want to keep.

I don't recall anyone here going through multiple problems. They do the first rebuild and you don't here anymore. Unless? They used it for a short time and sold it used.

I have a friend with a 2016 ABS 500 Sport that thinks he has issues, same build as my Gray one, he's in warranty still and our Dealer has contacted the Piaggio Rep. I am hoping it was the dealer that caused the problem by doing his first oil change and putting in the recommended amount of oil in the Manual 1700cc. I know for a fact Piaggio ships them below the 1/2 way mark when they were taken out of the crate. I made mention this in another post, I checked them when I purchased mine. I always wanted to know if the manual was just wrong.

Good Luck with this...
Keith,
Marietta, GA

Are you just taking their word or have you seen the damage? Have they taken your motor apart? Maybe you just need rings. I would want to see the damage.

If I could take the motor apart, it would have already been done. It is both oil and gas going by, so at the risk of catching on fire, I'd rather have it fixed. I did request a Piaggio rep be included in this process. This is my last Piaggio purchase.

I received a text from A&S saying that they will start taking my scoot apart on 8/5/16. They will be sending the Piaggio rep pictures of the engine. I will let you know what happens as soon as I find out.

Man that sucks. My rebuild is still going strong though I have only put a few thousand miles on it. Too bad we didn't live closer together as I enjoyed tearing mine down and rebuilding it. It would be especially fun with you doing the work and me directing and drinking the beer. Hope they get it sorted and yeah I may go with a 250 cc MP3 or Vespa in the future but anything bigger I would probably go with something else. Curious to see what problems the newer 500s develop over time.

That's why I always say the MP3/250 is a "Collector".
I am considering the 300cc upgrade to get some more "Pep", but to find someone I feel I can trust to do it in the Atlanta Area?

Keith,
Marietta, GA

take it to motovista in charleston SC, he can bump it up with a malossi kit. He is the largest malossi dealer in the USA.

OAD, do you still have a 500 MP3 or did you sell it after getting your 1200 Guzzi? If you still have the 500, how many miles on it now and has it been trouble free?

Now that is someone I would Trust !
I may consider that.
I think a MP3/300 done in Malossi would be Awesome.

Keith,
Marietta, GA

A&S is taking my scoot apart tomorrow. I can't wait to see what the Piaggio rep is going to say.

Keep us posted - I wish someone was able to hold their feet to a fire.

Haven't had any issues with my `09 400 MP3 other than the car tire I put on it. On a 2.4K mile trip the right rear axle bearing mostly disappeared, but I still made it home. Knew something was wrong when the rear tire was wearing unevenly 1/2 way on the trip.

Randy, this has only happened with the 500. It has effected the 07-09 model years.

400's aren't a problem - virtually bulletproof you take care of it.

I had to call A&S to get the info on the scoot. I just spoke with the tech, and they said the piston is okay, one of the rings failed. They claim that it might take up to 2 months before Piaggio comes back with any findings. Yes I have 27,000 miles on the scoot, but at 9,000 the first piston cracked, and then at about 26,000 the rings on the second piston went.

So now the large bill and the long wait. At least they didn't keep the scoot for three months this time.

When problems with timeliness and accurate information come up, usually everyone quickly blames Piaggio. When these things are finally sorted out, it seems to turn out that the dealer (some dealers) are more often the weak link than the manufacturer.

I have found that when a ring breaks it is invariably due to improper installation. I'd have a talk about repair cost if it were me.

That would be a awkward thing to bring up. How could I prove that?

Ask to see there Ring Compressor. If it's a cheap band clamp type they most likely broke the ring installing it.

Yeah - the rings sometimes catch on the cylinder lip and break as they're hammered in.

Another possible install issue is they didn't check/adjust the ring end gap. If the ring end gap is too close they can meet when compressed to install and then break because it's too tight. Some of these mechanics seem to think everything fits perfect out of the box. Ask if they checked it and ask what it was.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/ring_end_gap.htm

How soon could the engine fail if that gap isn't checked?

No way to tell - dependent on too many variables. Think of bending a wire repeatedly - no way to know when it finally breaks from fatigue.
Did you read the article? An important part of the procedure is to check for cylinder taper. In theory you could measure the ring diameter, the length of the ring in entirety, the cylinder diameter and calculate the end gap Essentially you know the length of the ring - circumference minus the gap - adjust the circumference to that of the cylinder by some hairy math and see what the gap is. Drawing it is easier since it's simply measuring the arc of the gap wedge at two distances.

I will bring this up to them, but honestly won't they say that they took every precaution possible

My phone was dead today, so I couldn't take a picture. They showed me the piston. The top ring had about 1 1/2 inch missing. They claim that the piston has been upgraded in the kits, so lets see if it works this time.

nah piaggio didn't

Upgraded? Sounds like Bull Shit to me...
Now I would believe if Malossi made one?
But I am sure that is not the case.

It would not surprise me that Piaggio moves away from the Master 500 engine on future bikes. The Piaggio 350 is such a nice engine, not sure why they don't use that one.

Keith

I agree about the 350 engine. On the other hand, the Master engine is an old design. It wouldn't surprise me if the 500 gets a complete redesign as many other Piaggio engines have in recent years.

I'd argue that upgraded means they recognized a problem with the previous design and ask for Piaggio to cover it. Can't hurt to ask. In fact the costs may be low enough to claim in small claims court which would cost them more than just fixing it for free. Those bastards know it's not normal to have these issues.

Oooooooooookay. I drove it home 8 miles. I took it to work today, to setup my classroom, that was 40 miles. So basically 48 miles. I got home, got a glass of water, and thought...hmmmmmm I should go out and check the bike. Sure enough a puddle of oil below the belt case, just like before. If anyone from A&S is monitoring this thread, you have one very unhappy customer!

I checked the dip stick as I picked it up, it was up to the top. Now it is at the add mark in just 48 miles.

BTW I drive at 65-70 max.

take pics. sounds like they over filled it. this can cause over pressurization of the crankcase.

did thay also replaced the reedvalve they should have

There was also the same amount of oil in the front drain line that I had while the ring was cracked.

OMG...
So after they fixed it, they filled it to Max Level on Stick...
Piaggio does not even do this !

I would immediately drain, and put 1400cc in it.
Your Air Filter will have oil in it from your ride home probably.

Keith

No more drips this morning, but really, how does it go from full to need oil in such short time?

If it starts too full, you will quickly get blowby, which will block the air filter and result in a self sustaining blowby problem until the air filter is cleaned.

If it starts just above the low level, you don't get nearly as much blowby, so the air filter doesn't get blocked by the oil. So you don't have this problem.

This is my experience anyway.

Get the reedvalve replaced thats your problem otherwise you will blow an other piston

I took it to A&S after work. The pulled it into the shop as I was leaving. They need to figure this out. Is the reed valve usually replaced with an engine build?

Incorrect. The initial blowby/excess oil from breather clogs the air filter as you say - but then the engine has to pull harder to get the air it needs and the high vacuum pulls the oil through the breather tube. A small but crucial distinction the first is a "push" from positive pressure the second is "pull" or negative pressure (vacuum).
My opinion is that this situation as described should not happen even when filled. For God's sake folks - there's a top fill line for a reason - it will not harm the bike or cause massive oil consumption if the bike is in good condition. These examples of heavy oil consumption are from bad engineering and bad parts. Think about it - 400's don't have this issue.

and some bikes like mine have never had an issue. but I keep my oil level at the half way mark as well.