Modern Vespa

Update: crappy old flywheel lives to fight another day.

Problem turned out just to be the screws attaching the outer fan part to the inner flywheel proper. Two had sheared and the heads disappeared. One had backed itself out and gone missing entirely. One was intact, but loose.

Prior work re-riveting flywheel to the hub is holding up well. Stator no worse than before.

Yeah, I'll get a vintage Japanese long bed 2wd, with extended cab for that. Stab my 3.3 v6 in it. Dreams are made.

I appreciate the comments and glad to know people are following along. It's not a Vespa, but the same kind of soul.

Some recent inspiration and advice came from a bus forum. Guy restoring a bus who is very good at it, but willing to share the days when paint went on like popcorn and everything went to shit.

Giving yourself permission to make mistakes makes it a whole lot easier and the work ends up better too. White knuckling it into perfection is the enemy of done or having any fun at all…or even doing good work. You'll never fix the unfixable thing if you don't get the blowtorch off your brain for awhile and let it change its mind.

You're making me reminisce and wish I had my '68 Dodge A108 extended van back again, w/ economical bulletproof slant 6 and 3 on the tree... sigh. PERFECT! But, sorry, no AC or power windows so nearly perfect for this kinda stuff plus mobile mini home camping rig. And wOw, has the price skyrocketed for a decent one of these today

Anyway, I got caught up in you all's practical transport rig options and had to share. I came here for help. We've been w/ no electric power for fourth day now, but a generator keeps fridge, pellet stove & some LEDs going.

So I'm limited but still set on getting ALL the bikes to start & run OK before winter and riding is mostly done. Dang AllState just won't go when it's usually been most dependable. Good spark on all 3 different plugs I tried. Kick spin 20 times w/ plug out to dry out any flooding til a nice dry plug showed after trying to start with not even a pop. Weird. I tried a small gas squirt down the carb - nothing. Finally some ETHER just gotta do something! OK thanks AllState, just one single odd backfire style POP.

So timings off? Sheared key after 4 or 5 years no problems? That's all I can think of. So pull sheet metal & flywheel , but I do have timing marks and stock points ignition, now am asking can I use an ohmmeter if I disconnect the coil to see where the points open & close to verify it's a timing problem? 😞 Help!

It's still on points, right? I'd start by testing the condenser. That's what I recall caused backfires and misfires with points.

Others who still traffic in that sort of thing will probably have better suggestions.

And stay warm & dry. Living off a generator like that sucks, I know.

I thought I'd try to see ruffly where timing is. Maybe sheared key? Gotta pull the FW regardless if that or bad condenser...

Unless I just bridge a good condenser external to the coil, and it runs... Then you are right and I gotta pull it all anyway! Curses, but really not that tuff EXCEPT no compressor, ergo no impact gun just now, but my ohmmeter still works

For points checking i used to use battery & light... light ON points closed... light OFF points open

Look at the points themselves, if grey dusty the condenser is bad.

True, but there's worse.

That looks like a camping rally, only without the drunken shenanigans.

Oh man Terry - bummer! I heard Seattle got hit with a big windstorm, but didn't know it got your area. Hang in there brother!

Thanks, Scott. You know I'm a tuff old bird! I essentially just did what you suggested w/ my ohmmeter, but with the stator coil still in the circuit and my ohmmeter 9v battery kinda low w/ no replacement at hand... Inconclusive, no on or off indications. I guess I must pull FW the old fashioned way tomorrow by daylight.

Bets are on for sheared key or fried condenser? Points must work coz as I mentioned, I got a nice spark at a regular interval when checking those plugs.

I'm voting condenser. Sheared key is usually an all-or-nothing thing, plus last time I checked, you're not building the sorts of motors where flywheels just randomly go and slaughter their woodruff keys.

Closing up the cases on the ET3 again and now the rear axle bearing sounds grindy. Mmmmrph.
The struggle continues. 😖

I'm up in Orwells neck of the woods this weekend. My son is playing a hockey tournament in Lake Placid. He was MVP of the second game of the tournament and tomorrow morning is the gold medal game against a team from Ridgefield, CT.

It's absolutely gorgeous up here though.

Man you have had a tough go with this one… I feel for Ya

Having your son play a game on that ice is pretty epic. Glad to hear You are there to see and support

This. Few things are more important than your Vespas, but... 2nd place and not even close.

It really is. He's having a blast, and I absolutely love that he plays. It's by far the best sport on Earth and I'd prefer to do nothing else but drive him to far off rinks to play. When I'm 80 I'll be in the stands of his beer league games!

I feel ya, Birbs. Dying a death of a thousand cuts on my friend's Zuma. Pulled the cylinder yesterday to check why I was getting low compression readings. Everything looked great, but the ring was pretty glued in with old Cali gas and dried Honda GN2. Cleaned the ring and ring land. Cleaned up an odd bit of molten aluminum in the bore with muriatic acid and #0000 steel wool. No idea where it came from, no evidence of foul play on the piston or cylinder. No signs of leakage around the head or cylinder. Once cleaned and reassembled, it easily made 120psi on the gauge.

CDI wasn't making sparks, but it would with a spare CDI I had laying around. Put a new curved CDI in and no spark again. Since I had all the cooling shrouds off, I noticed the lower starter bolt had backed out, held loosely by the engine ground. Would have never seen it if I hadn't pulled the shrouds. Re-seated it properly and confirmed that the plug sparks with my static CDI when the plug is sitting on the head (couldn't check previously with the shrouds on). Still won't work on either curved CDI. That's the point where I noticed the ground leg of the CDI connector looked a bit melty where it exits the main harness. I suspect that when the main engine ground failed, it tried grounding everything through the stator ground wires and roasted something. Lovely.

At least I got his fuel tank to stop leaking after cleaning up some spot weld slag around the fuel tap sealing surface...

On a happier note, I re-tuned Johnny Speed's RD60 today and it sings properly now. He's a happy camper. I'm baffled by the carb setup decisions made by the prior person who was in there, but it's all tickety-boo now.

Finally put Engine Ice in the Scarabeo after riding around for almost a year with distilled water and Prestone Super Flush in it. Went through several heat cycles and drain/refill cycles this afternoon, but the brown schmoo finally stopped coming out. No worries about water freezing in the block now.

Final note: I had the Indian's crankshaft professionally inspected, repaired and trued. The bill was a bit of an ouch, but I needed the crank in good health. Then I found a vendor with a new Jasil crank for a Minarelli P4 for less than half the cost of the repair. Nuts.

Not having these hindrances is part of what I love about the vintage bikes. You have to do so much disassembly on modern bikes to perform even minimal maintenance tasks. And if they use any sort of clips or snap fits...grrr.... Ain't that always the case? And not just with scoots, either. I can't tell you how many times I've said, "Why did they do it that way? That makes no sense!" about a system or architectural design. And don't even get me started on some of the as-built garbage I see... This is why nobody works on on parts any more. That, plus the fact that there's a general shortage of machinists in the US. Unless you flat-out can't get the replacement parts (like your Minarelli) or want something that's exotic enough you can't just buy it, why would you pay more than the cost of new?

I'm hoping today will be the day I declare victory-for-now with the GL. Weather should be good, I don't have a whole lot going on, and I feel like I'm getting really close. Now I just need to see if I have a spare long throttle outer (I know I have inners) so I can do the replacement.

And maybe today will be the day I finally try to sell the Stella. I pulled it out yesterday and it started second kick, despite being about 50 degrees out and not having run for a month. Someone is going to get a smoking deal on a daily rider if they want something reliable that they'll never worry about it getting messed up (more) when it gets knocked over.

Agreed on the disassembly grief. On this particular scoot, you need to pull all the rear cladding off to remove the under seat bucket if you want to get to the carburetor...no access hatch! I did switch the carb over to an Arreche so I could swap main jets without having to do all that disassembly.

The guy who designed the bodywork for the second-gen Burgman 400...I hope his place in hell is full of pop plugs that keep breaking when removed. In this case, the RD was a bit sluggish and would fall on it's face and four-stroke at 8K RPM. The air filter looked to be made with dehumidifier foam, a replacement to be sure and a lot more open than I would have expected. According to the specs, the stock main jet is a Mikuni 100, so I tracked down a 100, 105, 110 and a 115. Also sourced new gaskets and a repro intake boot from Clauss Studios since the original was partly bound in electrical tape.

I was surprised to find the installed main jet was a 95 and the needle had been fitted with it's e-clip in the top slot! Talk about lean AF! I went with a 105 main and set the needle clip to the middle of five slots. On the test ride, after warm-up, the little RD would sing the song of it's people to 9300RPM now, but I was feeling a tiny bit of "hold back" around 9500 RPM. So I raised the needle by one slot and now redline is a clean pull away. I am bothered by the filter and may make a new one with a less-open structure. True. Machinists are literally a dying breed. If I didn't have bills to pay, I'd love to apprentice and learn the tools and techniques. There are some holes that one can't simply 3D print their way out of yet and replicators are still sci-fi.

I am glad that old Vespas have such a strong aftermarket. Sometimes it takes a weirdo project to remind us how good we have it. Good luck with the GL and its attendant game of inches. I hope the Stella finds a good home. A happy scooter is a ridden scooter.

Best of luck for the game. Yes, part of my neck of the woods. I used to work at the high school you probably passed on the way in as well as the school in Keene. The natural beauty of the area never gets old for me. A great place to ride scooters at least for 6 months of the year.

I watch a lot of videos of machines getting fixed in developing countries. There are still lots of machinists there. Many of them do great work and are very innovative and flexible in fixing just about anything. There is a machine shop near me, but he is set up to do his bread and butter jobs and that's about it. There used to be machinists in the US like that, probably before my time. I have an old VBC case that has some old work done on the case. It's decent work. Came out of my non-Viet VBB.

We have a client at work who has a *little* collection of old bikes, az_slynch your mention of the RD60 reminded me I had some photos from my visit the other day. This is part of his collection of 50's.

Lovely little herd you friend has there. I really dig the Suzuki on the end; reminds me a little of the ridiculous RP68 they built for 50cc Grand Prix. 19hp at 20,000RPM and 14 gears...mental!

I was happy to sell some Norton Dunstall parts for the cheap, on the flea. Knowing they were keeping the sport alive.

Yeah I don't think I'd get bored of the views up there. Drop dead gorgeous.

They pulled off the upset and got redemption. Won 4-3 in a game that wasn't really that close. His team was up 4-1 with 13 seconds left…
My son is the captain, if we had one I guess, he was the player to go get the plaque and hold it in the pictures. It was a blast. The teams they played were all a level above us and the one team was a AA team. Triple A is the highest level.

That one is normally kept under a sheet... it's an RK67. Still 14 gears, but a twin. 17 1/2 hp at 17,000rpm! And apparently only had a working range of 500rpm, all at the very top of course. It's incredibly tiny, a regular 12 year old kid would be too big I reckon.
Apparently the guy who owned it was employed in the Suzuki works bike area, he'd acquired it when they shut down the team and had it in his shed for years.
The one in your link was ruled out for the 1968 season before it was raced because it was a triple, they went to single cylinders after that.

I read up a bit on it after he showed me. There was a comment from the Honda rider at the time (who couldn't keep up until they changed to single cylinder) that his bike (21,000rpm redline) needed to slip the clutch to 20,000 before it would move off the start line.

Good stuff Friday! (I can hear Shorsey from Letterkenny when I see that pic. Lolz)

Sent the jungle green TS125 up to Dallas with Poi Dog Sunday. Looking forward to seeing that absolute f%^&g gem getting back on the road. Mark will do it right. Shoot, Mark may have the coolest herd of Vespas in TX at this point... and they all run. #alittlejealous

Making steady progress. Sandblasted the lower sliding door track down to bare metal. Used the shrinking tip on the MIG to tighten up the lower 1/4. Not real shrinking…the attachment puts rigid points in the metal. From the factory, it has a weird whip in it that makes the panel oil can if you try to make it straight. A real metal guy would have smoothed out the shrinks more.

ET3 cases back together.

Need to shore up my pressure testing set up as it has it's own slow leak.

Hope to do that this evening and then do the pressure test and a gear oil test.

The saga continues...

There's nothing worse than when your tools are the problem that keeps you from solving your problem.

Good luck on the pressure test. It's become the most nervewracking moment in my build process by far.

I've a Toyota where the screaming new alternator throws unrelated codes into the mainframe. The decoder doesn't even like hooking into the system, since I'm not replacing a new alternator for problems the parts guy wouldn't understand. I live with a Christmas Tree Dash display. Think I'm buying a vintage car for new years.

so all 3 cylinders together still were only 50cc? like 17cc a piece?

Check the connector.
I had same on my Toy. It was simply the connector nor getting properly connected despite apparently clicking there.

The vintage car is not a bad idea.
The imo sweet spot is already electronic ignition, but pre motor management system for the cat. Carburettors may have their quicks but infinitely easier to deal with than integrated electronics on the blink.

Yes that's right John. Incredible output for such a teensy thing. Good read here - http://www.classic50racingclub.co.uk/Suzuki-Works-50cc-Racing-Motorcycle/

Some super cars use tiny pistons en masse, hmm I cannot remember the marquee.

Petrus,
Thanks

that's really kick ass!

Sounds like you are on the edge of some real progress here, really nothing else to stop you it looks like now.. Looking forward to a successful pressure test report eminently, and some rolling shots shortly thereafter . But I've lost track, when is the latest HAM wager deadline and is the betting window still open? I wanna bet FOR, not against you this time!