bodgemaster
![]() 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Depends on the engine and lots of other factors, but I don't think a stable head temp in the 400-450F range is necessarily too hot. I'd get nervous at 475F ... definitely give a rest at 500F.
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Style Maven
![]() '74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) 125 Super '72 DanMotor 150 Super and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
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![]() 400 on a hot day, maybe OK. 450 maybe for a minute, but IMO still too hot to be running at. Look at the chart again and you can see that the tensile strength is only about 1/3 of the maximum, much easier for the part to fail under load. I can actually see the aluminum start to crack and crumble with no warning when I push on it as it gets just hot enough, long before it melts. ![]() |
bodgemaster
![]() 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7223 Location: So Cal |
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quote
Yeah but a CHT under the plug is only sensing the temperature of very small part of the alloy aluminum right around hottest part of the combustion chamber, no? The rest of the engine is running at a much lower temperature. I mean paper doesn't even burn until 451F. I'll defer because you're way smarter about aluminum than I am Terry, but seems to me it should be able to handle 450F ...
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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I'd expect that engine cases would be alloyed for minimal melting point (577c), but that a cylinder and head would be cast for higher temps accordingly. I could be totally wrong on this, too, with equal likelihood.
I found an interesting chart of the melting point of aluminum-silicon alloys: ![]() I couldn't find the silicon percentage on my BGM 177 anywhere, only that it's Al-Si alloy with the Nicasil lining, so figure that it could be as low as 577c or as high as...well, more Back to my original hypothesis, that the power dip I saw in my dyno's was a lean spot at 6,500 RPM's, which was right where I was running when things got so hot, I think that may have been acccurate. I richened up the needle one clip, then headed out and made some bad decisions regarding the speed limit and managed to generate a little more data and avoid interaction with both Local Law Enforcement and the Paramedics. First off, I got some interesting dyno results. I saw similar performance in 2nd gear as the last time I tested it. Power output was basically the same. I got an incomplete run in 3rd gear, because I was already at 65 and still accelerating in the dark, on a curve, in a 40 MPH zone, so I shifted to 4th gear for a little bit and the temp at 6,500 RPM's looked like it was going to stablize in the mid-350's, which is what I'd expect based on what I see with this motor in general. Max RPM's in 2nd was consistently at about 10,500, but I think I can go down a jet on my main and still be safe, I just haven't gotten to that yet. So the heat problem might be solved, although I'll need a longer stretch of open road to say for sure. It feels a little richer, so I'll throw the air:fuel meter on when I head out to test for sure and at that point, I'll probably be able to declare victory and move on. Regardless of that last little bit of tuning, this bike is so damn fun to ride, it's...well...not even funny. ![]() Dip is there in 2nd (blue), not so much in 3rd (red)
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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SoCalGuy wrote: Yeah but a CHT under the plug is only sensing the temperature of very small part of the alloy aluminum right around hottest part of the combustion chamber, no? The rest of the engine is running at a much lower temperature. I mean paper doesn't even burn until 451F. I'll defer because you're way smarter about aluminum than I am Terry, but seems to me it should be able to handle 450F ... |
bodgemaster
![]() 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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chandlerman wrote: SoCalGuy wrote: Yeah but a CHT under the plug is only sensing the temperature of very small part of the alloy aluminum right around hottest part of the combustion chamber, no? The rest of the engine is running at a much lower temperature. I mean paper doesn't even burn until 451F. I'll defer because you're way smarter about aluminum than I am Terry, but seems to me it should be able to handle 450F ... |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10903 Location: Nashville 288 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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quote
SoCalGuy wrote: chandlerman wrote: My CHT sensor is tapped into the top of the head. No spark plug ring to break. I have the VBB for that. |
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Ossessionato
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
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Ossessionato
![]() 1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
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chandlerman wrote: SoCalGuy wrote: chandlerman wrote: My CHT sensor is tapped into the top of the head. No spark plug ring to break. I have the VBB for that. I learnt on the aforementioned trip that; When cyl/head got hot there was 100f diff If you go on/off throttle etc to "cool down the plug" it does just that... However, it causes a minimal temp drop at BOLT When you stop playing with the throttle & carry on riding (as you were) the PLUG temp will start to RISE, as The BOLT is still hot. Let the BOLT get cooler, then PLUG temp will stay under control. |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
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Got a new front tyre now its a set of fresh tyre and my smallie arent afraid of rain anymore 8)
Have a nice day to you all and cheer ![]() ![]() |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, PX200 O tuned, PX181 M1XL, PX125 O tuned and some motorbikes
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quote
SoCalGuy wrote: chandlerman wrote: SoCalGuy wrote: Yeah but a CHT under the plug is only sensing the temperature of very small part of the alloy aluminum right around hottest part of the combustion chamber, no? The rest of the engine is running at a much lower temperature. I mean paper doesn't even burn until 451F. I'll defer because you're way smarter about aluminum than I am Terry, but seems to me it should be able to handle 450F ... |
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Ossessionato
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4926 Location: Australa, Mate |
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Ossessionato
![]() 1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
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quote
Poppies pop
MJRally wrote: Wrapping up a ride. 4 Vespas, a Lambretta and a Sportster 1200. My friends Vespa soft seized and broke his rear shock an hour later limping home. Found out the shock broke cause the tire was rubbing and spitting rubber out. Too many burnouts they say ![]() ⚠️ Last edited by SubEtherBASS on UTC; edited 1 time
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Ossessionato
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4926 Location: Australa, Mate |
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Ossessionato
![]() 1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4926 Location: Australa, Mate |
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quote
Been bash, bash, bashin away
I've been bashin away ... It's lookin pretty good so far.
Best bit... NIL bog on the cowl & minimal damage to the original paint ... BTW: to minimise the damage to paint, I used a RUBBER MALLET. BTW; it's winter here, so I had to use the good ol BLOWTORCH to heat (the other side of the) cowl to ensure the paint dried. So, I did get to use a MALLET & BLOWTORCH to fix a scooter... Gotta keep up the persona. ![]() Dang!
That musta hurt
![]() No more squishy squash here
![]() Starting to look like a scooter again
![]() I think it fell over
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Johnny Two Tone
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Posts: 9004 Location: San Diego, CA |
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quote
koenig blues wrote: Got a new front tyre now its a set of fresh tyre and my smallie arent afraid of rain anymore 8) Have a nice day to you all and cheer |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10903 Location: Nashville 288 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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quote
Jack221 wrote: The plug colour always tells the real story. Not sure there is a right or wrong here but somewhere between 300 and 350F at the plug, is where the highest bhp is. |
bodgemaster
![]() 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10903 Location: Nashville 288 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10903 Location: Nashville 288 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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I lost a glove last night. I forgot they were on the cargo net on my milk crate when I rode off. Found one retracing my path. it was nicely flattened by tires, but not the other.
They needed to be replaced anyway due to holes in the fingers, but it's the principle, damnit. |
Johnny Two Tone
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Johnny Two Tone
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Used a torque wrench on lug nuts on the smallie. But since the studs on these hubs seem to be made of cheese, I'm taking precautions so I don't have to fork out another $90. Never really thought it necessary on lug nuts, I always tighten by hand, but obviously I've been a bit heavy handed.
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serie-pro serie poo more like
pressure tested a primavera engine that i've rebuilt and the new serie-pro inlet manifold has pourus welds on it
pressure test your engines after rebuilds peeps you never know |
Molto Verboso
![]() GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
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First Ride of Rebuild
Last year I picked up a P200 real cheap and after a complete rebuild finally got to the point of where I can ride it.
Didn't want to spend the $ to give it a good paint job so I got it sand blasted and powered coated silver with the dents remaining . Results were OK or expected but looks better then the previous color. Still needs some adjustments here and there and I still need to complete the sidecar for it. ![]() The day I got it from the seller.
![]() After rebuild
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special,, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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rowdyc wrote: Last year I picked up a P200 real cheap and after a complete rebuild finally got to the point of where I can ride it. Didn't want to spend the $ to give it a good paint job so I got it sand blasted and powered coated silver with the dents remaining . Results were OK or expected but looks better then the previous color. Still needs some adjustments here and there and I still need to complete the sidecar for it. ![]() |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10903 Location: Nashville 288 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Re: First Ride of Rebuild
rowdyc wrote: Last year I picked up a P200 real cheap and after a complete rebuild finally got to the point of where I can ride it. Didn't want to spend the $ to give it a good paint job so I got it sand blasted and powered coated silver with the dents remaining . Results were OK or expected but looks better then the previous color. Still needs some adjustments here and there and I still need to complete the sidecar for it. Definitely not one of my shifty rats, for damn sure. |
bodgemaster
![]() 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Spent a couple of hours putting a Polini exhaust on my other smallie in place of the stock muff.
Formerly easy starting, quiet, nice idling scoot now hard to start, noisy and runs like crap. WTF ![]() |
Johnny Two Tone
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Ah bummer socalguy. The Polini pipe is a nice simple pipe and has done me well. Seems like you'll be stuck looking for air leaks and going after any required jetting change. They really are decent, I will buy another when mine dies. Those flange angles look quite a bit different, sure you have the right version for the cylinder? They are different depending on the displacement.
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bodgemaster
![]() 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Yeah I'm not blaming Polini. It's either installation error or the header might be from a different pipe. It was in a box of used parts I acquired. The angles in the pic look weird because the stock muff uses an exhaust stub, which was still on the cylinder.
Sigh. What a waste of time... |
Style Maven
![]() '74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) 125 Super '72 DanMotor 150 Super and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
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Today I saw this in the Scooter Gallery section here Random Euro Vespa Porn , check it out lots of interesting old scoots.
I believe this is in Spain but what the heck is a "Vespa SL"? It seems to be some kind of odd Spanish MotoVespa smallframe unless somebody made their own badge. ![]() |
Style Maven
![]() '74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) 125 Super '72 DanMotor 150 Super and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
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update
It's a MotoVespa Primavera/ET3, has a glovebox and that cool spare tire mount around the tail lite. Different headset too. More here, tnx ggl: https://www.milanuncios.com/motos-clasicas/vespa-super-sl-265605602.htm
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Addicted
![]() '79 P200, '74 VBC Super, 1978 Rally 200, 1978 Bravo Super Deluxe
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Posts: 826 Location: 32° 37' 40" N, 117° 2' 53" W |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special,, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
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quote
SoCalGuy wrote: Yeah I'm not blaming Polini. It's either installation error or the header might be from a different pipe. It was in a box of used parts I acquired. The angles in the pic look weird because the stock muff uses an exhaust stub, which was still on the cylinder. Sigh. What a waste of time... today i start hearing the bearing sound again in my smallie engine ![]() ![]() have a nice day and cheer everyone |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: UTC
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
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quote
V oodoo wrote: Today I saw this in the Scooter Gallery section here Random Euro Vespa Porn , check it out lots of interesting old scoots. I believe this is in Spain but what the heck is a "Vespa SL"? It seems to be some kind of odd Spanish MotoVespa smallframe unless somebody made their own badge. ![]() ![]() http://vespasmallframeforum.proboards.com/thread/12244/motovespa-125-super-sl-1970 |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: UTC
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: UTC
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roll out with the old lady
![]() after many months ride on a smallie, somehow i realize my vbb is huge and it gave me a though on how big is my pink vespa happy riding everyone and cheer ![]() they said those who work while other sleep will have a good fortune, i wish it was true :lol:
![]() she was once a hard worker so she have no complain doing it over again hyhyhy
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5804 Location: Indo |
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: UTC
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found out my mounting rubber were worn, change it and ride in again.. park nxt to a modern vespa and my yellow lady aint lack of charisma
![]() happy 4th July everyone and cheer ![]() look like a trophy for a old worker :lol:
![]() we are still feel young inside ;)
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
'07 LX150 (Sold), '17 GTS300, '16 BV350, '15 EN650, '09 FXDF (sold). '15 FLSTN
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '07 LX150 (Sold), '17 GTS300, '16 BV350, '15 EN650, '09 FXDF (sold). '15 FLSTN
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rowdyc wrote: Last year I picked up a P200 real cheap and after a complete rebuild finally got to the point of where I can ride it. Didn't want to spend the $ to give it a good paint job so I got it sand blasted and powered coated silver with the dents remaining . Results were OK or expected but looks better then the previous color. Still needs some adjustments here and there and I still need to complete the sidecar for it. |
Molto Verboso
![]() GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1347 Location: Deep in the heart of Texas |
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quote
Jet Peddler wrote: rowdyc wrote: Last year I picked up a P200 real cheap and after a complete rebuild finally got to the point of where I can ride it. Didn't want to spend the $ to give it a good paint job so I got it sand blasted and powered coated silver with the dents remaining . Results were OK or expected but looks better then the previous color. Still needs some adjustments here and there and I still need to complete the sidecar for it. I hope to finish the sidecar this month and have everything ready to take my daughter to her first day of school. It's a California Partner sidecar that was in an accident that need repairs and painting to a crack fender and shattered fiberglass body. I may get the seals and/or bearings changed at a trailer shop since everything is apart. The subframe is made from similar parts that were used on old trailers. A Harbor freight trailer tire fits perfect. ![]() ![]() |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() 73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special,, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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Took an 80 mile trip this morning to Mt. Palomar and back. On the way back one rider ran out of gas so while we were stopped waiting for a gas can, I was on a hill and flooded worse than I've ever flooded before. Had to take the exhaust off. Problem turned out to be the plastic US fuel tap selector. OFF was 1/2 the flow of on and ON was about 3/4 flow.
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Molto Verboso
![]() GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
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Shitty luck!
I'll prob go with one of these when mine fails. https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2150394?highlight=#2150394 It seems I would not need to pull the tank or remove the tap arm to change it. |
RIP
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() T5s
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curly teeth
At me visit to St james hospital leeds I met this in the car park. .... wonder what they were talking about?
![]()
Positive
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
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Re: curly teeth
T5bitza69 wrote: At me visit to St james hospital leeds I met this in the car park. .... wonder what they were talking about? |
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