Modern Vespa

My new scoot' came with the above Michelin tires. I'm a great fan of Michelin tires and was expecting the quality they usually provide.
The BV shook at the frequency of tire rotation the first time I cornered at ~10+ degrees of lean angle. At first it seemed to be the rear tire but now I think it may be both tires. However many tires are at issue the shake is pretty violent and sometimes presents when riding in a straight line.
Has anyone else had this problem?
I love this scoot' and am anxious to get this issue addressed to enjoy the capabilities of the BV.
Thanks!

I had to build a special adapter to have my front wheel spin balanced at CycleGear. Fixed it right up. Whoever balances wheels at the factory is a moron. Dynabeads were useless. Take your wheel to CycleGear and leave the outer spacers on. You might get lucky. They balance wheels free here.

I think you are dealing with a pretty typical situation with City Grips, you are having the "front end wobble" that many two wheelers can experience under specific circumstances (even bicycles can do it). Many have reported it with the GTS, and I think that is likely your situation. Do a search here for discussions.

I put CG on my GTS after some old OEM Pirellis.
The CG were better performing than the worn out tires, but in addition they shook a lot.
Slowing down, speeding up, cornering-every situation was appropriate for a good shake.
Next Friday I am going to have the dealer that sold me the tire put on a new Pirelli.
I think it is just the "front end wobble" thing that many two wheelers can do under specific circumstances.

Out of balance? They generally shake when leaned over and sometimes in a straight line. Is this the problem you had?
I think Piaggieo should take care of whatever the problem is...

Elvispa,
I was looking forward to changing to Michelin Power Pure tires when the CG's were worn out, but wasn't planning to do it yet! It only has 320 miles on it and is two weeks old!
This does seem to be a Piaggio problem to me. They should stand behind their choice of tires.

I had the same lump on my new 2015 bike. Repeat, fixed it right up. I think the front shocks use too thin an oil in them. Can't prove it now, I'm busy with custom work.

You have a long wait ahead of you. The rear will last 10,000 miles.

breakinwind,
Are you saying that you had to re-balance your tires when you say "Repeat..."?

I type slow, but here goes.
As soon as I got my 2015 BV, I noticed the lump. I said something to the dealer, but they didn't care.
I jacked up the front and checked the steering stem for play and binding, perfect. I went the easy route and put Dynabeads in and there was no change. So I removed the wheel, broke the bead and vacuumed out the Dynabeads. I took the wheel to CycleGear and they balanced it for free The balance removed 80% of the lump.
A week later I changed the front tire on the 2014 BV and took it to CycleGear. I noticed that when they balanced the wheel, I could see it wasn't true. After riding the 2014 BV, I noticed a light lump. Now the fun part I decided to change the China wheel bearing out for some from Japan. While doing this, I made an adapter to true up the wheel on CycleGear's balancer. When they balanced the wheel, it spun perfect. The guy said the final run was double zero. I also did the same thing to the 2014 rear wheel. That sucker is smooth as glass
When I get the chance, I'm going to make an adapter for the front wheel that doesn't require removing the bearings on the front wheel.
I have a post that shows the rear wheel adapter.

Thanks breaknwind,
I'd like to see that adapter.

here is breaks post on his tool for spin balancing
https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2084273?highlight=#2084273

I use a similar tool but for static balancing and it works great. It came with the no mar tire changer and balance stand.

If you really have a defective Michelin tire, it is Michelin not Piaggio that warranties their tires to be free of defects. If it is simply out of balance, that is a different discussion of course.

Its not clear whether this is a balance or a runout problem. I would expect that balance problems would be most pronounced at a certain speed rather than being related to cornering angle as the original post implies.

For that reason I would recommend checking runout of both wheel rim and tyre by spinning the wheel and positioning a pointer or static object close by.

If the wheel rim shows significant runout this is unequivocally a warrantee matter. However if the tyre is as you described 'lumpy' it should first be checked for evenness of the seating around the rim. If this is perfectly OK then the tyre pressure should be checked ( they are often set too high on new machines).

Bear in mind that new tyres need to be run through a few heat cycles before they settle to the final shape and recover from any distortion which may have been caused during storage after manufacture. If you have been running-in gently they may need a reasonably long high speed run to generate some heat.

Having said all that they may still require balancing as well.

Not a fan of michelin or their city grips.
If inflation is not maintained it does not take long to feather.
They last twice as long as Pirelli diablos but i'd anther have grip over longevity!

scooter wheel balance----try Ride ON, works for me----not cheap @ $15 a wheel. check run out both up down and side.....bad throw tire away.

Most shops cannot or have difficulty balancing small wheels.

tires should not "feather" you have something wrong.

My BV city grip has shown some cupping of the front tire after about 3000 miles. If your tire is brand new, I'd get Michelin on the phone to get you a new tire. A good dealer should (IMHO) help you with this, but not all will. Though I (personally) would try balancing before I decided to try to deal with Michelin.

The scoot' has ~300 miles and this showed up in the first 100 miles.
It's going back to the dealer next Thursday and I hope they are a good dealer and fix whatever is the problem.

Yes...absolutely something wrong!
Poor tire design and most people do not keep their tires at proper inflation.

In 15 years in business I rarely see issues with Pirelli and almost always with others. Even when people do not keep proper inflation in Pirelli's we rarely see them go lumpy/feather or crack.

with little effort they should be able to check for runout. If it's the wheel good luck with piaggio. If it's the tire you need to contact Michelin.

sorry but there is nothing wrong with the tire design. I have been using the city grips on my scoots and others since they came out in 2009.

I agree folks don't check their pressures regularly and some over inflate when they do.

cracking tires are because of improper storage or they are close to 5 years old or older. In my 45 years of wrenching, riding racing 2-3 year old tires never crack, except maybe in the desert.

We change over 400 tires per year and most clients do not maintain tire pressure on a consistent basis.

Our findings are that Pirelli are very forgiving to lack of maintaining correct pressure (yes the crack over 5 years old). Michelin are almost always feathered...so yes we can conclude poor tire design (or not as Superior to Pirelli).
Every single client with SAVA or Michelin have always commented on the improved feel/confidence of Pirelli.

To tell me over 300 clients/year are wrong? We value their feedback!

I have new Metzlers on my BV 250, and am very pleased with them. The worn Pirellis they replaced held up well, too...

Metzler is owned by Pirelli

Back to "Lumpy" vibration on my new BV350;
I removed the front wheel and had it rebalanced as suggested at my local Cycle Gear. Kudo's to CG for providing this service gratis. The wheel was out of balance by 1/4 oz. Before test riding it I want to check the rear wheel for balance as well.
Reviewing the Piaggio Service Manual, there's little regarding the overall job of removing the rear wheel. I checked YouTube as well. There's a for MP3 rear wheel removal. Is this the same as the BV350?
Any help out there with direction, please?

IMHO rear wheel removal for the BV is the biggest PITA of the bike. Put it on the center stand, start it and check the rear wheel and tire for runout. You may need a large gear puller to remove it. I'd take the test ride B4 going thru all that. CG won't be able to balance the rear wheel without my sleeve idea. It's the reason I did it. By the way, did you make a sleeve for your front balance?
BV350 how to get out of a sticky situation
BV350 rear wheel assembly torque values

I've removed my rear wheel on the BV several times. Do you have a copy of the manual?

There are a lot of steps and parts to remove to get at the wheel. I won't detail them however will point out my observations.

I originally used this link a forum member pointed out on the great german bv forum. http://beverlyforum.de/board/thread.php?threadid=1217&postid=17804&start=0#PID17804 pictures are good.

personally i've never had any issues in removing the BV's wheel but had to use a piece of wood and lump hammer on my other half's lx wheel to loosen it. I now lubricate the splines when re assembling and it makes taking it off the next time a piece of cake.

1. be careful when removing and remounting the muffler. there is a graphite gasket that can be damaged if hamfisted.

2. when remounting the muffler be extra careful of stripping the mounting bolts. it can be tricky getting the alignment right.

Breakinwind. CG was able to balance the front tire with their machine. The spindle shaft was the same size as the Piaggio axle and worked fine. I will build the widget to balance the rear wheel when I have it removed. Read below for my experience with puller requirement in previous experience.
Blackmoon181. It appears to be almost exactly like the Vespa 250 GTS that I've removed a couple of times. I had hope that there was another way after reading some inconclusive info stating the the muffler didn't have to come off. I don't know how it could've been done without removal after a closer look. I didn't need a puller for the Vespa so I'm expecting the same with this scoot'. I always reassemble with assembly grease to make the next remove easier. One must be very careful with assembly grease else it makes a mess and collects lots of dirt.
Thanks you two!

My biggest issue with the rear wheel removal was breaking the 8mm bolts loose that hold the RH swing arm. I broke the top bolt and had to go through a breath holding extraction process. Bolt was frozen due to electrolysis. I avoided future issues by replacing bolts with threaded studs and Ny-loc nuts.
Take great care when separating the muffler from the exhaust pipe as there is a seal that can be easily damaged. Seal will cost $15-29 plus Freight. Crazy expensive for something that probably cost no more than 15¢ to produce.

A trip to Harbor Freight for a "rattle gun" can save breaking bolt heads off, etc. This tool removes "frozen" bolts without breaking them, usually.

better to use some aerokroil first, let it soak for 20 min and they come right out with out having to use impacts which can stretch and damage bolts.

howdy, now to the question about michelin city grip tires. i also had a faulty one which was visibly lumpy and had to be replaced. wear wise they do great as my front had over 16,000 miles on it and still looked useable. sold now so i don't know if or how long they kept that front tire on there.

ken

Was the faulty tire a rear tire?

howdy , yes the faulty tire was a rear. the first , when the scoot was new, was ok but i got a screw in it and no-one would fix it so i bought a new one from the dealer and that was the bad/lumpy one. when that was replaced , all was well again except the front wobble which is common and caused some rippling pattern but didn't affect the wear any.

ken

Thanks.
I lived in VanWa for about 20 years before moving here to the Bay Area. Nice town as I recall. I still come up to see friends and drink coffee at the Java House downtown with Lonnie and Cora.