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@kulezi avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
 
Hooked
@kulezi avatar
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
UTC quote
Trying to get this P200 started. Rebuilt the carb, that's working properly. Have spark etc. Cleaned and re-torqued the head. I ran a new green wire as it was crumbling and I read here on the forum that it can cause running problems. So I'm kicking it over, seems like it might start... no dice. Now I just saw smoke coming from behind the flywheel. I have not ventured behind the flywheel yet. I am worried I somehow fried the electrics.

It's got a Ducati CDI.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
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Location: Oceanside, CA
UTC quote
No idea until you pull the flywheel. The stator and flyside seal are back there. You'll need a special tool to pop it off the crank.
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Location: Veria, Greece
 
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@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4567
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
It's a bit difficult to fry the stator. I'd say you have a shot seal and the smoke is coming from inside the engine...
OP
@kulezi avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
 
Hooked
@kulezi avatar
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
UTC quote
Would it get hot enough from just kicking it over to smoke?
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5258
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5258
Location: Oceanside, CA
UTC quote
It shouldn't smoke from just kicking it over. Do you have the battery attached? Red wire from the harness going into the stator is battery fed so you could be melting insulation/short.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Posts: 7223
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7223
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
I vote for fried wire or fuse. Did you get a whiff of the smoke? Burnt electrics have a distinct smell...
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4567
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4567
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
Does it have a battery for sure??
Green wire is AC...
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@kulezi avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
 
Hooked
@kulezi avatar
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
UTC quote
Yes, it has a battery, and it was hooked up. Why would that cause a short? Old cracked wiring?
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5258
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5258
Location: Oceanside, CA
UTC quote
Yep old cracked wiring just like green wire you did. Lift the junction box up and see what condition the stator wires are in.
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@kulezi avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
 
Hooked
@kulezi avatar
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
UTC quote
It looks like all of the wires are in good shape. Here is something I noticed when I touched the leads (wires) to the battery. I first hooked up the + side then touched the - lead to the - pole and heard a "thunk" or a "something engaging" noise from the engine side, and a small spark between the - terminal and the lead. It did not do this with the - side hooked up, then touching the + lead to the + terminal. Is this normal?

I have no tool to pull the flywheel so looking at the stator will have to wait...
@subetherbass avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
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Location: Australa, Mate
 
Ossessionato
@subetherbass avatar
1997 Italjet Formula 125, 2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
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Location: Australa, Mate
UTC quote
jammed starter motor soleniod
OP
@kulezi avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
 
Hooked
@kulezi avatar
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
UTC quote
There is no starter motor. It's a P200E.
UTC

Addicted
1974 Rally 200, 1974 Rally 200 with sidecar, Vespacross bike
Joined: UTC
Posts: 609
Location: Atlanta
 
Addicted
1974 Rally 200, 1974 Rally 200 with sidecar, Vespacross bike
Joined: UTC
Posts: 609
Location: Atlanta
UTC quote
That sound you heard was the flywheel moving as the stator was acting like an electro magnet because of a wiring short somewhere between the battery and stator. On single yellow stators this will happen if the red and yellow wires are hooked up backwards. It will eventually suck the magnetism from the flywheel.
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@kulezi avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
 
Hooked
@kulezi avatar
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
UTC quote
I don't think wires are reversed as it ran when I first got it. Idled rough and died when given gas... Would it run, just not so well if the red and yellow wires are reversed, or would it not run at all?

Is there a way to check for a short without pulling the flywheel and stator?
@niz76 avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 Vespa P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 199
Location: Tampa, FL
 
Hooked
@niz76 avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 199
Location: Tampa, FL
UTC quote
It's also possible to feed 12v+ backward through the purple wire which turns the stator/flywheel into an electromagnet as mentioned. Not a good sound to hear. Be sure to double-check all the wires up under the headset and at the ignition.
@rob_hodge avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1924
Location: Seattle
 
Molto Verboso
@rob_hodge avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1924
Location: Seattle
UTC quote
if you have gotten smoke from behind the stator, you're hooked up the wires wrong and back fed the battery thru the lighting coils. the fact that you got a 'clunk' out of it confirms this.

this is bad. that smoke is what is left of some of your varnished on coil insulation. your lighting coils now most likely have internal shorts and will never produce the propper amount of power.

in addition, that 'clunk' was the coils essentially becoming a degaussing setup, demagnetizing somd of the coils on your flywheel.

this type of shock is tricky to undo, even wit ha proper re-magnetizing machine.

I hate to tell you, but you are looking at a new flywheel and stator.
OP
@kulezi avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
 
Hooked
@kulezi avatar
1980 P125X, 1978 P200 in pieces, 93 150 Exclusive (RIP)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 136
Location: New Mexico
UTC quote
Ugh. Not sure how that happened. I've done nothing to the wiring except run a new green wire, unless somehow I did that incorrectly. Could a short somewhere cause this? Is the problem in the headset? Wires on the incorrect tabs?

With a new stator and flywheel, do I need to rectify the wiring problem first, or is the problem in the stator. I find electrics completely baffling for the most part.
@moto64 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS, '58 LD 125 (150)
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Location: S.Salem, NY
 
Ossessionato
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS, '58 LD 125 (150)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2076
Location: S.Salem, NY
UTC quote
The green wire grounds the ignition and if it's bad either the plug won't fire and the motor won't run( grounded) or you won't be able to stop it running (disconnected or broken) .
Pull the flywheel and take a look. A lot of electrical issues can be seen visually/mechanically. Burned wires or insulation coating on a coil is usually clear. If there was smoke, there's something that got too hot. You may just need one coil replaced and/or some re-wiring. If this incident demagnetized the flywheel magnets, then deal with that. See if they all have the same strength to stick to a big wrench, for instance. If you have a multi meter ( they're cheap) you can test the coils for proper resistance. Someone else will have to tell you the values and the procedure.
Might be easier just to swap new parts on there, straighten out the wiring and go back to riding
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