UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1229
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
 
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1229
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
UTC quote
If I feel at all unseen, I wave my hands and/or swerve and/or flash my high beems.
I have no issue with other motorists and don't see cars, etc. as the enemy as I also drive. Everyone makes errors
UTC

Ossessionato
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2143
Location: London
 
Ossessionato
GT200 & GTS250 & NC750X & Royal Enfield Pegasus
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2143
Location: London
UTC quote
Aviator47 wrote:
There are 234 million cars on US roads ... the odds of seeing a PTW versus a car on the road is probably about 1 in 50. Thus, your brains are simply not conditioned to looking for PTWs.
It's probably similar in most countries (outside Italy and Greece). Here in the UK 3.5% of vehicles are motorbikes - I thought it was much higher.. I guess cars are bigger in the states so bikes are relatively smaller which doesn't help. Also distances travelled tend to be longer in the states so folk probably just sit in their lanes and probably don't need to pay much attention until they get hungry.
Matty G wrote:
The Greeks are, with their taxes & avoidance showing the Germans (fuhrers of the EU)
the contempt they deserve.
Viva Greece
I'll quickly point out that Greece went bankrupt and over 50% of the young are unemployed (compared to 13% in the UK and 10% in the US). Mostly because no-one pays their taxes. I know I sound like a boring old fart but it's a crappy way to run a country.
@aviator47 avatar
UTC

Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
 
Moderator
@aviator47 avatar
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12955
Location: Paros Island, Greece
UTC quote
Matty G wrote:
What happens on average to those who ride helmet free?
350 Euro fine, reduced to 175 if paid in 7 days. And, people are indeed being fined.
@breaknwind avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Red Devil SH150i (11,000)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3326
Location: Orange Park Florida
 
Ossessionato
@breaknwind avatar
Red Devil SH150i (11,000)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3326
Location: Orange Park Florida
UTC quote
WLMiller54 wrote:
Someone mentioned a louder pipe, but I don't think anyone mentioned a train horn or louder horn

Thanks
Me me me me Whew emoticon
UTC

Enthusiast
07lx190(sold big mistake),09gts250,13bv350(sold),10lx190(pink)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 88
Location: Cameron park ca
 
Enthusiast
07lx190(sold big mistake),09gts250,13bv350(sold),10lx190(pink)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 88
Location: Cameron park ca
UTC quote
I have headlight modulators on all my bikes. The only time someone pulled out in front of me was when I was on my bike that didn't have a headlight modulator. I am a believer.
@wleuthold avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125: 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Big Ugly), 2023 Vespa GTS300 (Ghost)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5355
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@wleuthold avatar
2006 Vespa GT (Rocket): 2007 Vespa GT (Vanessa): 2009 Yamaha Zuma 125: 2018 Yamaha Xmax (Big Ugly), 2023 Vespa GTS300 (Ghost)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5355
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
UTC quote
valval wrote:
I have headlight modulators on all my bikes. The only time someone pulled out in front of me was when I was on my bike that didn't have a headlight modulator. I am a believer.
I was riding down the road today. I came to an intersection where a car was ready to turn left in front of me. They waited for me to pass before they turned.

I was running my low beam with no modulator. This has happened every time for the past 125,000 miles of riding.

I am a believer.
@belkwinith avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Honda CTX 700 DN Automatic Motorcycle
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5122
Location: Naperville, Illinois
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@belkwinith avatar
Honda CTX 700 DN Automatic Motorcycle
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5122
Location: Naperville, Illinois
UTC quote
People usually see me. So far I have had no issues.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
UTC

Addicted
2017 BV 350 Matte Black (donated)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 763
Location: Northern Virginia
 
Addicted
2017 BV 350 Matte Black (donated)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 763
Location: Northern Virginia
UTC quote
Silver helmet, hi-viz mesh and cooler weather jackets. I've also used the helmet halo reflective strip. My old LX150 had the headlight modulator -- don't know if it worked, but no one turned left in front of me -- but I also drive defensively, just no point in being "right" but in the hospital or worse.

I have a brake light modulator still to be installed. I think that might have some value as is "movement" and the rear brake lights on Vespas are not the brightest or largest. I also have a Vespa top case and in the two "tailights" on the case, I've placed reflective tape underneath which is useful at night because you now have two reflective dots at driver eye level which should help make you visible to following cars.

However, as some have said, the best advice for visibility is assume you are invisible and drive accordingly. Also, have fun and don't obsess about it, you could get hit by a bus while standing on a street corner -- stuff happens.
@skunkhome avatar
UTC

Hooked
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
 
Hooked
@skunkhome avatar
Burgman 400, BV250, CH80, Helix
Joined: UTC
Posts: 450
Location: SE Louisiana
UTC quote
Personally I consider trying to make myself visible is a pointless pursuit.
⚠️ Last edited by Skunkhome on UTC; edited 1 time
@madison_sully avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7680
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@madison_sully avatar
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7680
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
UTC quote
WLMiller54 wrote:
This is a great discussion. Thanks to everyone for jumping in. Here is what I have summed up so far:

Drive defensively, like nobody can see you
lateral or side to side movement
Hiviz is okay during the day, but limited at night
Reflective tape \ paint is a big plus (I am ordering the Halo Reflective band)
Safety vest
Colorful or patterned clothing, helmets
Modulating lights are a hot topic. Maybe \ Maybe not
Ride with your high beams on
Many people agree on enhancing Head lights, tail lights, running lights, and case lights
Someone mentioned a louder pipe, but I don't think anyone mentioned a train horn or louder horn

Thanks
I would add:
Own your lane and position. Do not ride timid.
I am not in favor of riding with high beams on, though I will flash them briefly at an oncoming car if they look like they don't see me. It's rare.
Always signal your intentions.
Do not depend on others signaling their intentions. Turn signals are a threat, not a promise. There may be a better word than "threat" here.

Personally I'm not in favor of modulated or blinky head or tail lights.
I also dis-like noisy exhaust. Loud horns I'm all in favor of, like flashing a high beam, as long as you don't use it to say "HI".
@cheshire avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
GTS (sold)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1151
Location: US overlander, NC-plated
 
Molto Verboso
@cheshire avatar
GTS (sold)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1151
Location: US overlander, NC-plated
UTC quote
Madison Sully wrote:
WLMiller54 wrote:
This is a great discussion. Thanks to everyone for jumping in. Here is what I have summed up so far:

Drive defensively, like nobody can see you
lateral or side to side movement
Hiviz is okay during the day, but limited at night
Reflective tape \ paint is a big plus (I am ordering the Halo Reflective band)
Safety vest
Colorful or patterned clothing, helmets
Modulating lights are a hot topic. Maybe \ Maybe not
Ride with your high beams on
Many people agree on enhancing Head lights, tail lights, running lights, and case lights
Someone mentioned a louder pipe, but I don't think anyone mentioned a train horn or louder horn

Thanks
I would add:
Own your lane and position. Do not ride timid.
I am not in favor of riding with high beams on, though I will flash them briefly at an oncoming car if they look like they don't see me. It's rare.
Always signal your intentions.
Do not depend on others signaling their intentions. Turn signals are a threat, not a promise. There may be a better word than "threat" here.

Personally I'm not in favor of modulated or blinky head or tail lights.
I also dis-like noisy exhaust. Loud horns I'm all in favor of, like flashing a high beam, as long as you don't use it to say "HI".
"Own your lane and position. Do not ride timid."
This is the perfect short-version of what I was thinking in my more long-winded post.
Better word than "threat": Turn signals are "thinking about it", not a promise. The "fun" (define fun, Wash.) part is figuring out if they're thinking about it now, just finished thinking about it, or thought about it 5 miles ago and forgot to turn off the "thinking about it" indicator. Laughing emoticon
UTC

Hooked
2019 Burgman 400
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: NE Ohio
 
Hooked
2019 Burgman 400
Joined: UTC
Posts: 125
Location: NE Ohio
UTC quote
I wear highly colored riding apparel with reflective surfaces, have some reflective tape on my scooter, and use movement in my lane in an attempt to make myself as visible as possible for my fellow moterists. A loud horn could be useful but I have found that whether I am in my car or on my scooter and I am encountering an interesting situation, my first inclination is to get myself to a safe place - the horn is an after thought to register my annoyance with the other person's inattentive or poor driving.
@fledermaus avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2015 GTS 2017 BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12550
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@fledermaus avatar
2015 GTS 2017 BV 350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 12550
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
UTC quote
Cheshire wrote:
This is the perfect short-version of what I was thinking in my more long-winded post.
Better word than "threat": Turn signals are "thinking about it", not a promise. The "fun" (define fun, Wash.) part is figuring out if they're thinking about it now, just finished thinking about it, or thought about it 5 miles ago and forgot to turn off the "thinking about it" indicator. Laughing emoticon
Not sure if it's any help around here. The M.O. of a turner here is:
1. Slow down
2. Begin the turn
3. Signal at mid-turn... though this step is optional.
@fubar-retiree avatar
UTC

Member
Lurker-GT300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22
Location: California, United States
 
Member
@fubar-retiree avatar
Lurker-GT300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22
Location: California, United States
UTC quote
I enjoy watching these vid ideas scooter west produces.

Many of the comments here have me back sliding whether or not to get back on two wheels.

@menhir avatar
UTC

Moderator
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5145
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Moderator
@menhir avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5145
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
UTC quote
My big number one:

I try to ride where people expect to see something...Where they expect a car might be.

What I means is, even though my PTW can squeeze or maneuver into places where a car can't or shouldn't go, I tend to place myself where I would be if I were in my car.

People don't seem to see PTW's as well as cars, true, but let's be real...inattentive and distracted drivers are hitting other cars, trucks, tractor-trailers, buses and even trains all the time f'r gosh sakes.

I don't know what you can do about these types. Still... for everyone else,

Yes, I wear a red jacket with reflective piping, I often lightly tap my brakes several times as I'm coming to to a stop, I ride with my high beams on in the daytime...easy enough and it don't cost nuttin'...but dressing loud isn't going to help if you're not where they're looking.

So, no lane splitting for me either...especially around here where it's very uncommon.
⚠️ Last edited by Menhir on UTC; edited 1 time
@treppenwitz avatar
UTC

saggezza di scala
2009 'Burma Shave' Red GTS 250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7068
Location: Israel
 
saggezza di scala
@treppenwitz avatar
2009 'Burma Shave' Red GTS 250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7068
Location: Israel
UTC quote
Most of the suggestions above are great.

But the cheapest and most effective way to attract attention (from both oncoming and following motorists) is to swerve around in the lane.

Nothing grabs the eye like movement. We PTSers tend to pick a line a stick with it, which makes us static against whatever background cagers view us in.

Even a small swerve will make others aware of your presence on the road.
@larrytsg avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2665
Location: Lock Haven, PA
 
Ossessionato
@larrytsg avatar
1979 P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2665
Location: Lock Haven, PA
UTC quote
FUBAR-Retiree wrote:
I enjoy watching these vid ideas scooter west produces.

Many of the comments here have me back sliding whether or not to get back on two wheels.
Most of us are talking about worst case scenarios, weird (or typical) near-misses, best practices, etc. If you want to convince yourself to ride, you can do that with stories of fun, friendship, freedom, etc.

If you want to convince yourself NOT to ride, you can do that with stories of near-misses, crashes, stupidity, injuries, etc.

It's really up to you and your level of risk and comfort with riding to decide whether or not to get (back) on two wheels. Whether or not you have previous experience (I didn't read back far enough, nor do I remember), if you've never taken the basic rider's course, please do. You'll get a weekend's worth of theory and practice, and if you don't feel comfortable taking it to the next level, then that's ok. It's a fun and informative experience, even if you've ridden before. And if you drop the bike/scooter, it's no big deal because it's not yours anyway!
@andyscooter avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa gt200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1713
Location: United Kingdom
 
Molto Verboso
@andyscooter avatar
Vespa gt200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1713
Location: United Kingdom
UTC quote
not sure if it got mentioned already but here is what I do


approaching junctions with a vehicle in I tend to do a smidsy wobble

just a slight movement in my late to make the light move a bit (always have headlights on)

its just enough to grab the drivers attention and make them think
@fubar-retiree avatar
UTC

Member
Lurker-GT300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22
Location: California, United States
 
Member
@fubar-retiree avatar
Lurker-GT300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22
Location: California, United States
UTC quote
Larrytsg wrote:
FUBAR-Retiree wrote:
I enjoy watching these vid ideas scooter west produces.

Many of the comments here have me back sliding whether or not to get back on two wheels.
Most of us are talking about worst case scenarios, weird (or typical) near-misses, best practices, etc. If you want to convince yourself to ride, you can do that with stories of fun, friendship, freedom, etc.

If you want to convince yourself NOT to ride, you can do that with stories of near-misses, crashes, stupidity, injuries, etc.

It's really up to you and your level of risk and comfort with riding to decide whether or not to get (back) on two wheels. Whether or not you have previous experience (I didn't read back far enough, nor do I remember), if you've never taken the basic rider's course, please do. You'll get a weekend's worth of theory and practice, and if you don't feel comfortable taking it to the next level, then that's ok. It's a fun and informative experience, even if you've ridden before. And if you drop the bike/scooter, it's no big deal because it's not yours anyway!
Five pavement too many off-pavement to recall as my brains in fading mode.

I miss the awesome relaxation, the total brain drain riding at a relaxed pace on a country road. Twisty roads leading to small mom and pa cafes and such. A comfy seat a must.

I admit to eroding phyisical dexterity condition as arthritis continues to worsen. My wife seriously is against my returning to two wheels. My county for some odd reason authorities will not reveal suffered 27 bicycle and engine driven two wheelers accidents in just one month. I have my own opinion why? So what?

I would enjoy going to MC school. It would be fun I think
@tripo avatar
UTC

Addicted
2016 GTS 300 Settantesimo Grigio Pulsar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 552
Location: San Antonio, Texas
 
Addicted
@tripo avatar
2016 GTS 300 Settantesimo Grigio Pulsar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 552
Location: San Antonio, Texas
UTC quote
Sting had it figured out.
I bet the cagers would notice this scooter, especially at night. -but it might require an auxiliary power source.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@huffmandon avatar
UTC

Member
Used to have P150, GS180, P200, GTS300, and now GTS300HPE,
Joined: UTC
Posts: 19
Location: Sunnvyale, Ca now Crowley, Texas.
 
Member
@huffmandon avatar
Used to have P150, GS180, P200, GTS300, and now GTS300HPE,
Joined: UTC
Posts: 19
Location: Sunnvyale, Ca now Crowley, Texas.
UTC quote
Visibility
Great comments.... I added the running lights front and rear, added reflective tape black on black, and assume I am not seen, and Lane split at stop lights to minimize exposure... Been riding for 55 years..
@claude avatar
UTC

Addicted
Steeellaaa!!
Joined: UTC
Posts: 954
Location: Canada
 
Addicted
@claude avatar
Steeellaaa!!
Joined: UTC
Posts: 954
Location: Canada
UTC quote
I'm dressed like this, you can't miss me.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@motovista avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9342
Location: Main Street, Watts
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9342
Location: Main Street, Watts
UTC quote
It has been my experience that drivers seem to notice when you flip them off. If you don't think they see you, give that a try... Very loud aftermarket exhausts also get their attention.
UTC

Molto Verboso
LXS 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1212
Location: The OTHER South Bay, CA
 
Molto Verboso
LXS 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1212
Location: The OTHER South Bay, CA
UTC quote
judy wrote:
I try and wear a wild colored shirt on gray days also.
Loud Shirts Save Lives!
@madison_sully avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7680
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@madison_sully avatar
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7680
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
It has been my experience that drivers seem to notice when you flip them off. If you don't think they see you, give that a try... Very loud aftermarket exhausts also get their attention.
Only after you have passed them..
@raettig avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
Vespa GTS 300 SuperTech 2023 (Not yellow), Vespa GTS SuperSport 2018 (Matte yellow). Vespa Sprint 125, 2014 (Yellow)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 91
Location: Wiltshire, England
 
Enthusiast
@raettig avatar
Vespa GTS 300 SuperTech 2023 (Not yellow), Vespa GTS SuperSport 2018 (Matte yellow). Vespa Sprint 125, 2014 (Yellow)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 91
Location: Wiltshire, England
UTC quote
It's yellow.
@en82pg avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2010 PIAGGIO BV 500ie Tourer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4644
Location: Lakeshore, ON, CANADA-Capestang,FR
 
Ossessionato
@en82pg avatar
2010 PIAGGIO BV 500ie Tourer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4644
Location: Lakeshore, ON, CANADA-Capestang,FR
UTC quote
Claude wrote:
I'm dressed like this, you can't miss me.
So that's what happened to my camper. Went for some extra duct tape and when I got back it was gone.

You can tell it's mine by all the duct tape.

Claude if that's you in the disguise on the scoot, give it back! Laughing emoticon
@en82pg avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2010 PIAGGIO BV 500ie Tourer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4644
Location: Lakeshore, ON, CANADA-Capestang,FR
 
Ossessionato
@en82pg avatar
2010 PIAGGIO BV 500ie Tourer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4644
Location: Lakeshore, ON, CANADA-Capestang,FR
UTC quote
EN82pg wrote:
Claude wrote:
I'm dressed like this, you can't miss me.
So that's what happened to my camper. Went for some extra duct tape and when I got back it was gone.

You can tell it's mine by all the duct tape.

Claude if that's you in the disguise on the scoot, give it back! Laughing emoticon
Seriously, headlamp/brake light modulators and high viz vest.
They have worked well for me.
@lisantica avatar
UTC

Hooked
LX150, GTS250, GTS300 HPE
Joined: UTC
Posts: 381
Location: Banning, CA
 
Hooked
@lisantica avatar
LX150, GTS250, GTS300 HPE
Joined: UTC
Posts: 381
Location: Banning, CA
UTC quote
Like some others, I wear a safety vest over my jacket, it's bright orange.

My only worry is that some drivers aren't even looking up, they're looking down and texting or some other distraction.
I feel as though I'd be seen if the driver is looking through their windshield.
@claude avatar
UTC

Addicted
Steeellaaa!!
Joined: UTC
Posts: 954
Location: Canada
 
Addicted
@claude avatar
Steeellaaa!!
Joined: UTC
Posts: 954
Location: Canada
UTC quote
EN82pg wrote:
Claude wrote:
I'm dressed like this, you can't miss me.
So that's what happened to my camper. Went for some extra duct tape and when I got back it was gone.

You can tell it's mine by all the duct tape.

Claude if that's you in the disguise on the scoot, give it back! Laughing emoticon
I need the trailer to store my balloons. I tie balloon animals at intersections. "Ta-daaa, a giraffe!"
UTC

Ossessionato
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2208
Location: E. KY
 
Ossessionato
2018 Vespa GTS 300 ABS- Bianco
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2208
Location: E. KY
UTC quote
I dislike buying new high viz gear as choices are then limited(or must buy new stuff) plus it gets grungy and dulls anyway, unlike a safety vest that's cheap to own. I use a safety vest over all jackets and a white helmet.
One thing to spend time on is getting the best safety vest as some are crappy and not as bright as others in other cases. Mine has a zip which comes undone in the wing so a safety pins required but otherwise a cheap, effective solution. On my MC I have LED's that flash with brake application. Scoot I have none as yet but have the 3M safety tape to brighten up my luggage carrier at rear on 300GT.
Good luck on expecting cell phone idiots to know what you've done to be seen!



Honestly, it seems to worsen each year.
@judy avatar
UTC

World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 29303
 
World Traveler
@judy avatar
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 29303
UTC quote
Bright pink Crocs and my Ruby helmet help. Razz emoticon
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