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Another Scooter has been ejected from this topic
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Slashy -

While I appreciate what you're doing, and refrain from being a butthead (or cheese-dick or whatever objectionable name), I think there is a fundamental problem to drawing conclusions from what results here... basically, that the number of data points (two scooters) isn't enough to draw any conclusions about the general state of Vietnamese exported two tone shiny scooters.

But I'm still watching, waiting to see the pics of weirdness.

Keep on posting pictures.... because they're what's going to keep this thread interesting.
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GoSlash27 wrote:
The theory that I am testing is that you *can* get a decent scooter out of Vietnam, and the difference lies in researching who you're getting it from. The findings we are referring to are from "unsuspecting owners", so no. What happens when you are "suspecting"? Do you wind up with a decent scoot, or the same rubbish we all know and love? That's what I intend to find out.

Best,
-Slashy
If this is the theory you are testing, then you should give us more details about exactly how you went about selecting who you bought the scoot from.

What did you do differently from the Average Joe who is considering buying a Vietnamese scooter? Where and how did you locate this seller? What specific "research" did you do about them and what specifically did you find out? How many owners of their scoots did you contact? Where did you get their names? What questions did you ask? What did they say? Did you consider other sellers? Did you contact owners of their scoots? What did you find out? Did you check with any particular sources on the interweb, talk to any scooterists or shops here in the US, do any particular reading?

In other words, what made you a more discriminating buyer than the "unsuspecting" guy?

Even if the scoot turns out to be decent you will have proved nothing useful to future buyers unless you share details about exactly how you chose THIS particular seller.
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fuckin mitherin twats
havnt been on here in a while n this thread sums up why ......
so hes bought a bodge .... hes a member on here so must have some knowledge of what he was buyin ..... youre not gonna have it drop to bits under you so why get mad with him....
some people wear open face lids or no lid ... its their choice ... wear slippers n a night cap if ya like

once upon a time this site was a laugh
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[quote="SoCalGuy"]
GoSlash27 wrote:
Even if the scoot turns out to be decent you will have proved nothing useful to future buyers unless you share details about exactly how you chose THIS particular seller.
That was my concern. Even if you do find one good bodge, it muddies the waters about the other sellers. So if you get lucky and this one turns out nice (which I hope it does), it might encourage others to explorea similar purchase with the same (or what appears to be like) seller. Every positive sale on eBay encourages further sales from this and other sellers.

You have to define how you found this bike, how you identified he or she would be a good seller and how that sale proceeded. That helps everyone avoid the pitfalls of purchasing an illegitimate bike.
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I cannot see any good reason to spend decent money on a Vietnamese 'restoration', just so that you can prove if they are all bad bodges (or not), unless the verdict in the end is always going to be good. If this is the case, is this nothing more than a promotional exercise ie. vested interest?

There are many good old Vespas around. Ok, not a huge number, but there is no need to take a chance on a bodge from SEA.
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Larrytsg wrote:
Slashy -

While I appreciate what you're doing, and refrain from being a butthead (or cheese-dick or whatever objectionable name), I think there is a fundamental problem to drawing conclusions from what results here... basically, that the number of data points (two scooters) isn't enough to draw any conclusions about the general state of Vietnamese exported two tone shiny scooters.

But I'm still watching, waiting to see the pics of weirdness.

Keep on posting pictures.... because they're what's going to keep this thread interesting.
I'm sure the general state of Vietnamese scooters is deplorable. I might also consider them *universally* deplorable, depending on how this turns out. Anyone reading this needs to keep in mind that I'm not testing Vietnamese bikes in general, merely a couple examples from a single supplier.
I'm just documenting what happens when you're careful about picking a supplier as opposed to picking one up from Craigslist or shopping for "cheap".

Best,
-Slashy
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swa45 wrote:
I cannot see any good reason to spend decent money on a Vietnamese 'restoration', just so that you can prove if they are all bad bodges (or not), unless the verdict in the end is always going to be good. If this is the case, is this nothing more than a promotional exercise ie. vested interest?
Except... right off the bat the verdict has not been good. I've been relaying every problem and defect I've come across, and I haven't even started digging into it yet. I'm obviously not promoting a specific seller, because I am never going to tell you who that is. And I'm obviously not promoting Vietnamese scooters in general, else I wouldn't say things like "Vietnamese bikes are generally deplorable, perhaps universally".
So if this is a promotional exercise, who is it promoting?
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So let me get this straight... you're trying to see if your scooter is less crappy than other documented Vietnamese scoots based upon your extensive research?

I see your motivation a little more now, even if I don't understand it.

Still eagerly awaiting more pictures!!!!
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Quote:
What did you do differently from the Average Joe who is considering buying a Vietnamese scooter? Where and how did you locate this seller? What specific "research" did you do about them and what specifically did you find out? How many owners of their scoots did you contact? Where did you get their names? What questions did you ask? What did they say? Did you consider other sellers? Did you contact owners of their scoots? What did you find out? Did you check with any particular sources on the interweb, talk to any scooterists or shops here in the US, do any particular reading?
I actually posted this info in another thread back when I ordered it, but it's a good idea to outline it here.
Quote:
What did you do differently from the Average Joe who is considering buying a Vietnamese scooter?
I went into it knowing about the Viet-Bodge thanks to this forum and a few other pages. Accordingly, I didn't pick one up on Craigslist and didn't shop for the lowest price. I actually did a lot of research before pulling the trigger.
Quote:
Where and how did you locate this seller?
I simply googled "Vespa Vietnam". Any shop that did not have a website was automatically disqualified from consideration.
Quote:
What specific "research" did you do about them and what specifically did you find out?
First it started with googling the supplier's name. That's a good way to get people's reactions (good and bad) and contact info outside of the filtering of their website. I also made note of people who had testimonials on the website. Finally, I contacted the suppliers themselves.
What I found out will be covered later in your questions.
Quote:
How many owners of their scoots did you contact?
6 in total for this supplier. 2 from the website, 2 from blogs that were generally positive, and 2 from blogs that were negative.
Quote:
What questions did you ask?
For the positive reviews, I asked them standard follow- up stuff. If they're still happy with their bike, what has gone wrong with them or broken, etc.
Scooterists enjoy talking about their bikes.
For the negative reviews, I only had to talk to one of them. The other did a fine job of documenting his problems.

More to follow later. I need to lie down for a bit.

Best,
-Slashy
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So, have you got to ride or die it become a 'boat anchor' & float away in the flood
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SubEtherBASS wrote:
So, have you got to ride or die it become a 'boat anchor' & float away in the flood
It's surely a bodgy boat anchor if it floats! Wha? emoticon

Is Bondo lighter than water? An Archimedean test for bodges perhaps?
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SubEtherBASS wrote:
So, have you got to ride or die it become a 'boat anchor' & float away in the flood
Thanks for asking!
Both of our homes are well outside the flood plain, so no worries there. I've been way too busy sandbagging to ride (pretty much nonstop since Friday afternoon) and getting across town is a major ordeal.
My buddy's bike has a pretty bad bog around 1/4 throttle, so I'm going to help investigate that and post more pics. I suspect it's just plug fouling due to the heavy oil:fuel mix we're using for break- in.

Best,
-Slashy
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thank you for being willing to help sand bag, saw news clip about the flooding, know it will hit some people really hard. And enjoy reading your bodge reports.
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ok
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maggiegirl wrote:
thank you for being willing to help sand bag, saw news clip about the flooding, know it will hit some people really hard. And enjoy reading your bodge reports.
Thanks, I appreciate it. The one bright spot in these disasters is being among the thousands and thousands of people who show up to pitch in when called. They are a truly amazing and inspiring bunch, so it's not really a sacrifice on my part to do that. Well... not *much*, anyway. It does make me pretty sore


Sorry, not much of an update on the bodge today. My buddy had a prior engagement, so no playing with the toys.
We think we have a line on my buddy's bog problem, and I'm looking forward to tackling it.
Also on the customer service side, he requested replacement parts for the switches and they were put in the mail immediately. He forgot to request a replacement for my feeble mirror, so I'll hit them up tonight and see if I can get that sent as well.

Best,
-Slashy
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Got some riding in today and did some light disassembly for pics.
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http://s52.photobucket.com/user/GoSlash27/slideshow/Bodge-a-Palooza/BaP4

The pics at the end are from a '59 frame I got from a very reputable member on this forum. They are used as a comparison for the stuff I found/ suspected "bodgey".
Specifically: The choke cable is incorrect. The "sock monkey" shows how it's supposed to look.
The head shroud has been hacked to admit the plug wire. Also an aftermarket jug, which I don't mind. Perhaps you folks can identify it from the cooling fins? Sock Monkey's shroud shown for comparison.
The kickstand mounts have been obviously patched. Sock monkey for comparison.
I thought I found evidence of a "franken-bike" from my shot over the rear wheel. Turns out that weld line is normal. It's where an internal bulkhead is welded in. Sock monkey for comparison.
They used an oversized nut to raise the pillion seat. Definitely incorrect. I'm going to have to fix that for sure.
Inside of the head unit and air cleaner look fine, as does the wiring harness. Note the brand new 20/20 carb and air filter.
Plug is rich, but happy. I pulled it to take a look at it, and reinstalled it since the bike is running fine.
Somewhere in there is a shot of the annoying rubber pad on the kickstart lever. Do they normally try to work themselves loose over time?

My buddy replaced his Champion plug with an NGK. His bog went away and hasn't returned. We're now at 125 and 175 km, respectively.
Next time, I'll pull the tank and have a look at the inside of the frame.

Best,
-Slashy
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I'm confused. What are you talking about with sock monkeys? I see no socks or monkeys in the photos.
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sdjohn wrote:
I'm confused. What are you talking about with sock monkeys? I see no socks or monkeys in the photos.
Sorry, "Sock Monkey" is my nickname for the factory original frame I'm using for comparison. I'll be doing a resto- build on that one and (hopefully) have it ready to ride next spring. In the meantime, it's serving as a yardstick for how the frame is supposed to look so I can spot bodginess.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
This is Sock Monkey, before I stripped him down for resto.

Best,
-Slashy
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did not spend a lot of time examining the last group of photo's but noticed what may have been a sheet metal screw securing the speedo and philips head screws securing the air filter are typically slotted type.
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GoSlash27 wrote:
sdjohn wrote:
I'm confused. What are you talking about with sock monkeys? I see no socks or monkeys in the photos.
Sorry, "Sock Monkey" is my nickname for the factory original frame I'm using for comparison. I'll be doing a resto- build on that one and (hopefully) have it ready to ride next spring. In the meantime, it's serving as a yardstick for how the frame is supposed to look so I can spot bodginess.

Best,
-Slashy
Thanks for that, makes sense now.
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hibbert wrote:
did not spend a lot of time examining the last group of photo's but noticed what may have been a sheet metal screw securing the speedo and philips head screws securing the air filter are typically slotted type.
hibbert,
Good eye! I'll have to take a closer look at that today. If you spot anything else, (*especially* something that might compromise safety), please sing out.

Best,
-Slashy
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External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

If that dirty plug is the one that shipped w/ the bike, it's the long reach type used only for 180 and 200 motors. That one looks like an old used car plug. Why wouldn't they ship it w/ a new, correct plug?
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Now Slashy... I'm gonna disagree with you on something. The Sock Monkey is a wonderful looking old scooter. Shiny? No. Smooth? Appears to be a straight scooter.

Why oh why do so many people want to take a good comfortable older scooter and make it look "better than new"? I understand taking it apart to see if anything needs repair, and putting new internals into the engine, but if you leave it like it is, then it's a one of a kind scoot when you're done mechanically restoring it.

If you paint it all shiny and stuff... it ends up looking like those 60's and 70's muscle cars with modern paint colors.... they're shiny and colorful, but anyone with a brain knows that the color was not available in 1971 (or whenever). It's like a monkey in a tuxedo... you can dress him up, but it still looks stupid.

I had an Oldsmobile Cutlass before I got the scooter. It was "Saturn Gold", which is more fairly described as "baby poop brown". It wasn't the prettiest color out there, but it was period correct. As were almost all of the options on the car (deluxe dashboard, floor shifter, bucket seats, wheels, etc). I doubt that these options were all factory ordered on my car (I didn't have the build sheet), but they could have been ordered that way.

Not sure why some people want to make an old utilitarian tool look brand new and shiny, when old used stuff is supposed to look older and used. Look at your favorite tools in your toolbox (heck, maybe look at your toolbox). It may be dinged, dented, or worn on one side.... it shows that it is used, smoothed out over time to show its age.

When I was in college, I lived in a dorm that is now 100 years old (it was only in its 60's back then). The wood railing on the stairs was worn with 65 years worth of students trudging up and down the stairs, and the marble steps at the bottom were worn in with all those years of shoes and boots scuffing a wear pattern in them.

I guess what I'm saying is that I really like the current swing away from perfectly restored shiny older vehicles to leaving them in their current condition but making them mechanically sound.

I like to look at old scooters the same way.....
Saturn Gold, correct period color
Saturn Gold, correct period color
Not sure of the name of this color, but it looks period correct
Not sure of the name of this color, but it looks period correct
This is a pretty color, but not a period correct color
This is a pretty color, but not a period correct color
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Sorry, I said "monkey in a tuxedo" above... and now to show you how stupid it looks
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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LarryTSG,
My plans for the Sock Monkey are outside the scope of this particular thread, but not to worry. I'm going to fix up the bodywork and repaint it, but I'm not going over the top to make it pretty.
Best,
-Slashy
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V oodoo wrote:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

If that dirty plug is the one that shipped w/ the bike, it's the long reach type used only for 180 and 200 motors. That one looks like an old used car plug. Why wouldn't they ship it w/ a new, correct plug? :x
All the Viet-bikes that I have seen with long plugs in them were helicoiled heads that often air leaked.
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Sorry Slashy....didn't mean to get off topic.

but now at least I have a new saying I can pull out when I need it....wonder how I can get someone to make an emoji of a monkey in a tux?
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Mattgyver wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

If that dirty plug is the one that shipped w/ the bike, it's the long reach type used only for 180 and 200 motors. That one looks like an old used car plug. Why wouldn't they ship it w/ a new, correct plug?
All the Viet-bikes that I have seen with long plugs in them were helicoiled heads that often air leaked.
Mattgyver,
As you can see from one of the other pics, this one has an aftermarket head and it's not helicoiled.

Best,
-Slashy
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GoSlash27 wrote:
Mattgyver wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

If that dirty plug is the one that shipped w/ the bike, it's the long reach type used only for 180 and 200 motors. That one looks like an old used car plug. Why wouldn't they ship it w/ a new, correct plug?
All the Viet-bikes that I have seen with long plugs in them were helicoiled heads that often air leaked.
Mattgyver,
As you can see from one of the other pics, this one has an aftermarket head and it's not helicoiled.

Best,
-Slashy
Yeah Matt soz you didn't see my telepathy photo pics of detail science shit, but all the Kool kidz have long plugs in there 150 cc nowadays coz it's called after market. You should look more properly nex time Matt.
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long or short?
If your head is designed for a long plug, the one on the left is the right length but still looks like an old car plug - not like any Vespa plug I've seen, the electrode protrudes too far. The other new plug looks right for a 150 motor with a normal head, but would be wrong if you have a special head.
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Re: long or short?
V oodoo wrote:
If your head is designed for a long plug, the one on the left is the right length but still looks like an old car plug - not like any Vespa plug I've seen, the electrode protrudes too far. The other new plug looks right for a 150 motor with a normal head, but would be wrong if you have a special head.
Gotcha. One of the two is surely wrong. I'll pull the shroud this weekend and see if you folks can identify the jug. I don't know which head it is, but I know it's not stock.
The new one on the left is an NGK that my buddy picked up. The replacement plug that came with the bike is a long reach plug, so I think my buddy may have picked up the wrong plug.

Best,
-Slashy
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Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: UTC
Posts: 375
Location: Columbus, Ohio
 
Hooked
@jagony avatar
2008 MP3 400
Joined: UTC
Posts: 375
Location: Columbus, Ohio
UTC quote
Larrytsg wrote:
Sorry, I said "monkey in a tuxedo" above... and now to show you how stupid it looks
That is not a monkey. While monkeys might not have tuxedos, they do have tails.
@larrytsg avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2665
Location: Lock Haven, PA
 
Ossessionato
@larrytsg avatar
1979 P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2665
Location: Lock Haven, PA
UTC quote
Somehow "Monkey in a tuxedo" rolls off the tongue better than chimpanzee (it's a chimp, yes?)...
OP
@goslash27 avatar
UTC

Addicted
Viet-bodge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 756
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
 
Addicted
@goslash27 avatar
Viet-bodge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 756
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
UTC quote
No big update today.
I bought a trailer for my bike, which turned into a big ordeal. By the time I was finished, it was too dark to get much done. I elected to un- bodge the connection between my rear pillion mount and bling- thingy.
There wasn't any hardware missing or anything like that, just an example of very shoddy workmanship. They just flat assembled it wrong.
After removing the seat (and that stupid oversized nut), I was able to align all of the holes and tighten everything down to where it was supposed to be. All fixed and tight as a drum now.

While I was in the neighborhood, I took a shot inside the chassis through the hole for the air intake bellows.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g13/GoSlash27/Bodge-a-Palooza/BaP5/20160930_184509_zpse9rnsvbs.jpg

Currently sitting at 148 km and running fine.

I expect to put more mileage on it tomorrow afternoon in between rounds of work on the trailer. I'll see if I can get some shots of the jug.

Also, I explained the situation with the spark plugs to my buddy. He says he'll just keep the short plug in there as- is, since it runs so well that way.

Best,
-Slashy
⚠️ Last edited by GoSlash27 on UTC; edited 1 time
OP
@goslash27 avatar
UTC

Addicted
Viet-bodge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 756
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
 
Addicted
@goslash27 avatar
Viet-bodge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 756
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
UTC quote
Some updates on the betting line:
Quote:
How bout... Bets on:
How many km before:
A... a minor issue
B... The need for a trailer/rescue
C... Something significant falls off
D... A catastrophic failure
E... Won't start

My guesses:
A. 57
B. 126
C. 99
D. 569
E. 116
a) I consider the attachment of the bling- thingy to be a minor issue, as well as my buddy's problems with switches, so that's an "under".
b) Both past that point, and neither has needed rescue. Over.
c) Both past that point and nothing (significant or otherwise) has fallen off. Over.
d) Not there yet. Push.
e) Both past that point, and both still start on the first kick. Over.

Best,
-Slashy
@joshzingzing avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@joshzingzing avatar
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
UTC quote
GoSlash27 wrote:
No big update today.
I bought a trailer for my bike, which turned into a big ordeal. By the time I was finished, it was too dark to get much done. I elected to un- bodge the connection between my rear pillion mount and bling- thingy.
There wasn't any hardware missing or anything like that, just an example of very shoddy workmanship. They just flat assembled it wrong.
After removing the seat (and that stupid oversized nut), I was able to align all of the holes and tighten everything down to where it was supposed to be. All fixed and tight as a drum now.

While I was in the neighborhood, I took a shot inside the chassis through the hole for the air intake bellows.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g13/GoSlash27/Bodge-a-Palooza/BaP5/20160930_184509_zpse9rnsvbs.jpg

Currently sitting at 148 km and running fine.


I expect to put more mileage on it tomorrow afternoon in between rounds of work on the trailer. I'll see if I can get some shots of the jug.

Also, I explained the situation with the spark plugs to my buddy. He says he'll just keep the short plug in there as- is, since it runs so well that way.

Best,
-Slashy
The choke lever has been relocated
@joshzingzing avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@joshzingzing avatar
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
UTC quote
Poorly
OP
@goslash27 avatar
UTC

Addicted
Viet-bodge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 756
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
 
Addicted
@goslash27 avatar
Viet-bodge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 756
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
UTC quote
To illustrate what Joshzingzing is talking about, here's a shot of the same area on the sock monkey.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Notice they just welded the choke cable in instead of using the retainer clip.
I don't know what the 2 holes were that were blanked off. Anyone have any guesses?

Best,
-Slashy
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