Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:30 am

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
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Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:30 am linkquote
love the welding job and the dog! guess the measure twice cut once mistakes still happen to the best of us! In my case its measure 10 times cut 4 times

Post up how the ride feels differently with the cut fork once you get it back on the road. Curious how it changes the response of the bike.
Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:13 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
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Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:13 am linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
love the welding job and the dog! guess the measure twice cut once mistakes still happen to the best of us! In my case its measure 10 times cut 4 times

Post up how the ride feels differently with the cut fork once you get it back on the road. Curious how it changes the response of the bike.
With carpentry, it seems like it's try to cut everything thing multiple times, except for your fingers..

I'll be changing three different variables of the current suspension, so it will be difficult to say just what lowering the fork will have done. Both the front and rear shocks that I had in there were so stiff that it felt like the scooter just bounced off any sort of bump. It was very uncomfortable and unnerving. The current rear shock feels as though it has zero damping in it. So VERY stiff and bouncy! I'm waiting of a few parts from SIP to show up (hopefully before the weekend) so that I can finish assembling the front end. Once that's buttoned up, I'll focus on that rear shock. I don't know what the matter with it is just yet. I'll take it off the scooter then remove the coil spring to test the damping on it.
Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:40 am

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Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:40 am linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
LMAO.
Dog is a classic.
Tks.

Such nice work on this one.
I took out an inch from my already SIP shortened one for similar reasons.
Didn't have my welding mojo going at that time - so found someone who did.
Guy who did it has been welding for 40 years - insisted on removing the lug rather than doing it like SIP and scooter & Service - cutting and using internal sleeve. Same as you. Not as clean!

Great pic of the lug - shows just how much overlap exists. Careful grinding job to remove it leaves a much cleaner Job. Taper cut you made is perfect for great penetration and clean flat weld.
You're welding oh this one is spectacular how-to on shortening a fork.

-CM

Edit - timing.
It was raining outside, and for some reason the dog meandered into the shop. Every time he takes a step he makes a grunting sound. So when the grunts get louder, it means that he's getting closer. He's a pretty cool critter (he's a rescue pig) and that's the other reason I wanted to keep the scooter frame pink.


The good thing about me screwing up my measurements is that I can show both ways to to lower (even though I had to go back and extend mine longer). I don't think doing one way or another is going to be stronger. I think it would be easier to get everything to line up correctly if the fork leg is cut about midway up because a long sleeve can be installed to line things up. Going the route of cutting off the lower pivot lug I think will take longer, but I think is a bit more "pro". You will need to be more accurate on finding out exactly where to cut the pivot lug out of the fork, and that's a little more time consuming to pinpoint. But pretty much at the end of the day once the welds are sanded smooth, both forks will (or should) look a exactly the same.

So when i first lowered my fork, I removed 1-3/4" inch...which brought it to the specs of installing a stock length PKXL shock. I had to go back and raise it back up 7/8"... which is now the height for the "lowered" Bitubo shock that I had on the shelf.

And one last pic of the dog (Bentley) to show what his life is like free ranging in the farm.



Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:25 pm

Addicted
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 507
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
 
Addicted
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 507
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:25 pm linkquote
the pink scooter makes total sense now and what a dog that is
Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:50 pm

Ossessionato
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Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:50 pm linkquote
I got the front end all buttoned up this evening. Lots of little odds and ends that reared their ugly head up with the reassembly, but that's how reassemblies go right? I haven't test rode with the softer spring in the front shock yet. The rear is so incredibly stiff for me, that I will sort that out before any test rides. I just wanted to get the front all assembled first so that I will have an easier time removing the rear shock.

One perk that happened was that I had a black colored speedo cable that is somehow the correct length. I did have a grey PX cable installed, but with the fork being lowered, I was going to install a PK speedo cable. I had an almost brand new black one currently in my PK125XL, but it was kinda too long for it for some reason. I matched it up with a brand new grey PK125XL that I just got, and the black cable is just a smidge longer than the grey PK cable. So it will work out perfectly in my PK200 fork!



Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:00 pm

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Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:00 pm linkquote
Once I get all the suspension sorted, I'll go back and lower the centerstand to an appropriate height. Right now the front tire is too far off the ground aesthetically. Though I'm not a huge fan of blacked out parts, I think the shock looks much better on the scooter with it being black (originally it was red). I just did a simple rattle can spray paint. On this particular scooter project, investing dollars into paint or power coating isn't an option (that money goes towards my other nicer scooters).



Tue May 05, 2020 9:06 pm

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Tue May 05, 2020 9:06 pm linkquote
Since the existing SIP rear shock was out of control stiff, something had to be done about it. After a few hours of scouring the SIP website for aftermarket springs, I decided to order one up. I knew what length and inner diameter spring I needed for my SIP shock, but of course SIP's description of their parts was once again a "grade C repair "...

Springs are fairly inexpensive ($20), so I figured I'd order one up and have the expectation that I would have a 99% chance of it being wrong (either too small of an inner diameter, too stiff a spring rate, etc...). Oh, did I also mentioned that in SIP's description that they spec it out for their front shock? Anyhow the spring arrived. I immediately compared it to the other stiff spring. The new one was about a 1/2" shorter (no problem there), the same ID on the spring (a very nice surprised), and smaller diameter of the coils on the spring. I knew right away that it would have a much softer spring rate. I was very hesitant to see how much I could compress the spring with my hands, because if it wasn't right I would be back a step 1. It turned out the spring felt really good (as in a softer spring rate), but the real test would be after the spring and shock were mounted back up on the scooter. Once all assembled and mounted up it felt perfect when bouncing up and down on the bench seat. I haven't done any rides in it yet, but I'm REALLY excited to test it out! Last year I did a "spring opener" ride that the local motorcycle club put on. It was kind of a higher stakes ride since everyone wanted to go fast. The route went through the mountains where there were LOTS of twisties....and potholes, bumps, ripples, and scattered gravel. One little oops and the scooter (and rider) would be shooting off the side of the mountain. I'm pretty sure I lost a fair amount of enamel off my teeth from gritting them through some the turns. Point being that's how bad the suspension was before. I can't wait to try the scooter out with the new softer front and rear springs!! I just need to jet in the PM Up and Over pipe, which is next on the list.



Thu May 07, 2020 2:55 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8169
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8169
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu May 07, 2020 2:55 pm linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
...Oh, did I also mentioned that in SIP's description that they spec it out for their front shock?
It's great when that one gamble pays off, makes a change! So you're saying that this spring is actually designed for their front shock? Do they also make a lighter one to suit the front shock? Pretty sure this was one you linked at some other time - https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/spring+sip+performance+shock_72000fb

You've had me re-evaluating the YSS's. And yes they can be a bit bone-shaking. Thought maybe it was the roads but nobody else complained about them like I did so probably time for a change...
Thu May 07, 2020 9:57 pm

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Thu May 07, 2020 9:57 pm linkquote
Ginch wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
...Oh, did I also mentioned that in SIP's description that they spec it out for their front shock?
It's great when that one gamble pays off, makes a change! So you're saying that this spring is actually designed for their front shock? Do they also make a lighter one to suit the front shock? Pretty sure this was one you linked at some other time - https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/spring+sip+performance+shock_72000fb

You've had me re-evaluating the YSS's. And yes they can be a bit bone-shaking. Thought maybe it was the roads but nobody else complained about them like I did so probably time for a change...
This one time the gamble did pay off Ginch. That probably means the the next 10 times it won't. And yes, SIP specs out the spring that I got for their SIP front shock application. I think my rear shock came standard with the XL spring. This "front" spring that I just got (#72005FB) is described as a "Medium" front. It happens to have just about the same dimensions (54mm o.d. spring coil) as the SIP rear shock. https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/spring+sip+performance+shock_72005fb

I think this spring should fairly easily mount on a YSS shock body, but the YSS shock is low quality budget, that I wouldn't recommend to continue using that brand. The SIP Medium front spring is still a lighter rating than the spring that comes on the YSS. Strange that I'm SIP's description of the YSS shock as "comfortable". This is the crappy one I had on my disc'd braked red PK125XL https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/shock+absorber+yss+mono+xpro_yss9042101. I just replaced it with a standard OEM style shock. https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/shock+absorber+carbone+front+_17480000 This Carbone shock feels way lots more better. It has good damping both on the compression and rebound stroke...something that the YSS severely lacked.

Pics of the modified "ASS" shock...



Fri May 08, 2020 2:25 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8169
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8169
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri May 08, 2020 2:25 am linkquote
Love the sticker!!


Says it's 55 x 165, my current one measures 54 x 175 (in the shock but no load) so sounds like it's worth a shot. Especially as it will just end up in a box and get given away at some point. Plus mine is white... doesn't go with my theme (green, black, rust, oil mixed with dirt). But SIP shock on the list for later.
Fri May 08, 2020 12:34 pm

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Fri May 08, 2020 12:34 pm linkquote
Ginch wrote:
Love the sticker!!


Says it's 55 x 165, my current one measures 54 x 175 (in the shock but no load) so sounds like it's worth a shot. Especially as it will just end up in a box and get given away at some point. Plus mine is white... doesn't go with my theme (green, black, rust, oil mixed with dirt). But SIP shock on the list for later.
Since the YSS shock has an adjustable preload collar ring, a 10mm difference shouldn't be an issue at all. If that medium rate SIP spring that I just got was too stiff,
my next thought was to cut down a stock rear PX spring and try to make it fit. The I.D. on the PX spring is a little smaller diameter than the SIP spring, but with a little work it would have fit. I didn't want to go that route though. The PX spring probably would have still been too stiff as well (either in the front or rear applications).
⬆️    About 2 years elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:47 pm

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Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:47 pm linkquote
A long awaited update on my PK!

It has been running fairly well. The only bummer is that the top speed is "only" about 65mph. The PM Tuning up and over pipe should easily allow the RPMs (and therefore speed) to reach much higher. I was expecting close to a true 72~75mph top speed. For kicks I checked my exhaust timing, and it's at 165 degrees. It really feels like the timings are fighting against my choice of exhaust. I decided to pull the engine so that I can better match all of the timings to the PM pipe.

The first thing I did was drain all the 2 stoke oil. Yeah, you heard that correctly. The 2 stroke oil that's in the reservoir tank had been slowly draining into the gearbox while the scooter was parked under a tarp. So I need to check the o rings on the mixer gear pump. There was at lease a pint of 2 stroke oil in the gearbox....but that wasn't all of the problems I found...

Apparently it was amateur hour in my shop at some point in time, because there was also a pretty good 2T oil seep leak between the threaded metal pipe fitting and the little oil gear mixer cover.

Also somehow there was no gasket between the carb body inlet and the fuel inlet banjo fitting. And yeah, that missing o ring gasket was found hiding behind the carb. No excuse, but to my defense, since this is a P200 stuffed in a PK frame, I literally have to install the carb by braille. So it's really difficult to see if that o ring seal is there or not.





Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:30 pm

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Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:30 pm linkquote
I removed the cover off of the mixer and then pulled out the metal bushing (that the mixer gear rotates in). There was a fair amount of metal flashing in there. I'm going to guess there was enough to cause the oil to seep past the O rings? I didn't take too close of a look at the condition of the O rings. I will just assume that they need to be replaced, but when I go to remove the old O rings, I'll take a very close look at them tomorrow. I think I have a few spare O rings that I can pop in there.



Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:49 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:49 pm linkquote
mmmrrrrpppphhhh. that swarf had to come from somewhere....
Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:49 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 3170
Location: Florence, OR
 
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 3170
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Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:49 pm linkquote
Yikes. I'm with greasy - where'd the flakage come from? Hmmmm.....
Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:13 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:13 pm linkquote
oh! and sticky grease for the banjo gaskets!

three lashes with a well used clutch outer for your impertinence in the matter!
⬆️    About 7 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:47 pm

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Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:47 pm linkquote
Another multi month update...
I ended up dropping the motor out of the frame and took it over to my friend's shop for some additional port work. He adjusted a few windows a bit. The current stats are-
-cast iron P200 cylinder
-GS piston
-Vape variable ignition set at 25 degrees just over an idle.
-Transfer timing 127 degrees
-Exhaust timing 182 degrees
-Blow down timing 27.5 dergrees
-MMW zero deck head @ 145 PSI
-1.5mm squish
-PM tuning up and over pipe
-B9ES plug
-24/24 carb (non-drilled passageway)
-jet stack 160/BE3/135
-idle jet 55/160

The engine was running super blubbery in low and mid range, but when the RPM reached about 5500, then the engine smoothed out. At 7k rpm (70mph) and above, the CHT is about 312 degrees F. The RPM climbed to just over 7600 (76mph). At slower speeds (55~60mph 5500~6k RPM) the temps climbed up to 340 degrees F.

I had a little bit of a soft seize, so I whipped off the cylinder and had my local machinist hone the cylinder. After slapping everything back together I finally decided to drill the float bowl to main jet passage out to 2mm. And that's where I currently have stopped. I know many of you are currently running the Jack Stack (but I don't know what all jet combination that it consists of. I primarily ride the scooter on the highway 95% of the time, so the CHT can really start to creep up after a while.

Jack (or anybody else), is there a jet combination that you would recommend me to start at? I think I'm after something a little bit leaner in the low and medium low RPM range, but still keeps it a bit richer in the high RPM?


Here's a pic of my piston and cylinder head right after my soft seize. And this was before I drilled the passage out to 2mm.







Last edited by whodatschrome on Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:38 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3454
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3454
Location: London UK
Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:38 am linkquote
Very similar spec to my O tuned 200 by the looks of it all. I think a pink PK needs to have some speed. Any pictures inside the cylinder? Is it stock gearing and wheel? I'm thinking not.

You need to strobe the timing using your own marks. Start lower and change it higher once the temperature is under control.

It's the AC160 that causes the seizing. Just slightly too lean even for a 200 on an un-drilled filter.
Yours needs drilled to over 2mm, no filter, AC120, BE4, main jet to flood out at 2nd gear WOT and work down to just barely ok. Pilot jet depends on how it goes once the main stack is done. If you have a 55/100 start with that.
Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:27 pm

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Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:27 pm linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
Very similar spec to my O tuned 200 by the looks of it all. I think a pink PK needs to have some speed. Any pictures inside the cylinder? Is it stock gearing and wheel? I'm thinking not.

You need to strobe the timing using your own marks. Start lower and change it higher once the temperature is under control.

It's the AC160 that causes the seizing. Just slightly too lean even for a 200 on an un-drilled filter.
Yours needs drilled to over 2mm, no filter, AC120, BE4, main jet to flood out at 2nd gear WOT and work down to just barely ok. Pilot jet depends on how it goes once the main stack is done. If you have a 55/100 start with that.
Thanks for that info Jack.
I do have an AC120, BE4, and a whole variety of main jets to play with. Is there a main jet size that you would recommend for me to start at?

The variable VAPE is set at 25 degrees at just over an idle.

I also just installed a 2mm thick float chamber spacer, so I have zero run time with it. I don't know if that will affect the jetting. https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/spacer-float-chamber-th-2-0mm-si-2020-2626-drt_92272000

I don't have a 55/100 pilot jet, but I can order a couple on Monday.

How much larger should I drill out the current 2mm hole to?

And I REALLY, REALLY want to keep my air filter! I live out in a gravel road, and I don't want to be sucking a bunch of dust into the inlet. So I definitely want to figure out how to make that work. I'm more than happy to loose a few mph in order to run an air filter.

The transmission and clutch are all stock P200 except for the short 36T 4th gear (23/65 gearing). Both tires are a 110/70-11. The actual diameter of the tire is actually a pinch shorter than a 3.5x10 Zippy1. My MPH speeds pretty much match my RPM. 40mph=4K rpm, 50mph=5k rpm, 60mph=6k rpm...ect. The current low profile 11" tire wheel combo does weigh more than a standard 3.5x10 combo on a steel rim, so the acceleration is hampered a bit, but I don't care. It's the look I'm after, not outright performance.

And I'm (reluctantly) including a couple pics of my piston and cylinder right after I seized it. The piston rings looked just fine. I did have the cylinder honed before I reassembled everything. This is what the spark plug looked like after I got home from the seize.











Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:57 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3454
Location: London UK
Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:57 am linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
Thanks for that info Jack.
I do have an AC120, BE4, and a whole variety of main jets to play with. Is there a main jet size that you would recommend for me to start at?

The variable VAPE is set at 25 degrees at just over an idle.

I also just installed a 2mm thick float chamber spacer, so I have zero run time with it. I don't know if that will affect the jetting. https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/spacer-float-chamber-th-2-0mm-si-2020-2626-drt_92272000

I don't have a 55/100 pilot jet, but I can order a couple on Monday.

How much larger should I drill out the current 2mm hole to?

And I REALLY, REALLY want to keep my air filter! I live out in a gravel road, and I don't want to be sucking a bunch of dust into the inlet. So I definitely want to figure out how to make that work. I'm more than happy to loose a few mph in order to run an air filter.

The transmission and clutch are all stock P200 except for the short 36T 4th gear (23/65 gearing). Both tires are a 110/70-11. The actual diameter of the tire is actually a pinch shorter than a 3.5x10 Zippy1. My MPH speeds pretty much match my RPM. 40mph=4K rpm, 50mph=5k rpm, 60mph=6k rpm...ect. The current low profile 11" tire wheel combo does weigh more than a standard 3.5x10 combo on a steel rim, so the acceleration is hampered a bit, but I don't care. It's the look I'm after, not outright performance.

And I'm (reluctantly) including a couple pics of my piston and cylinder right after I seized it. The piston rings looked just fine. I did have the cylinder honed before I reassembled everything. This is what the spark plug looked like after I got home from the seize.
Take the float spacer off. They cause mid splutter that won't go away.
Drill the carb over 2mm (2.2mm. 2.5mm max).
Start jetting at 140MJ and make sure it splutters when held wide open. If it won't splutter something else is wrong and its not safe. If all good should end up near 130MJ.
55/100 will not be the final size. 52/140? Got one of those?
If you have to have a filter a T5 one will work.
Timing is a bit high. 24@3000 is a safe place to start.

Cylinder looks like a nice job. Looks a bit like a TS1 exhaust port. Try to get the squish a bit tighter 1.2mm is a lot better.
Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:22 pm

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Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:22 pm linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
Take the float spacer off. They cause mid splutter that won't go away.
Drill the carb over 2mm (2.2mm. 2.5mm max).
Start jetting at 140MJ and make sure it splutters when held wide open. If it won't splutter something else is wrong and its not safe. If all good should end up near 130MJ.
55/100 will not be the final size. 52/140? Got one of those?
If you have to have a filter a T5 one will work.
Timing is a bit high. 24@3000 is a safe place to start.

Cylinder looks like a nice job. Looks a bit like a TS1 exhaust port. Try to get the squish a bit tighter 1.2mm is a lot better.
I will remove that float spacer.

I will also drill out the carb bowl between a 2.2~2.5mm.

Luckily I have main jets in stock that start at a 108 and go all the way up to a 140.

I contacted my friend, and he has a 52/140 idle jet in stock. Should I order up any other particular sizes of idle jets as well? Such as a 55/100?..or?

I do have a T5 air filter, but my PX carb cover won't fit over the top of it. I think(?) I might have a 24/24 T5 carb that I have on my shelf (it was slated to go on my stroked 208 Allstate), but even if I installed it on my PK200, I don't think there's enough room to fit a PX/T5 carb in that space. I'm pretty sure the cover would smash against the frame when the rear shock gets compressed. There's very little room to work with there.

I backed off the timing to 24 degrees @ 3k RPM.

And just how much better would it be to drop my current 1.5mm squish down to 1.2mm? The reason I ask, is because I'd have to remove the cylinder again and take it over to a machine shop to get decked.
Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:41 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:41 pm linkquote
What about no carb filter but put a k&n style filter on the box front?

What about lowering the cylinder a bit? Any room to move there? 1.5mm is not massive. Many out there with way more. My O tune has the same mmw but now recessed like a bgm head at 1.1mm. Seemed easier. The compression is on the low side and tighter squish peps them up.

Pilot jet. They are available to buy or drill your own but a 60/160 is probably where it will end up.
Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:45 pm

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Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:45 pm linkquote
I'd REALLY prefer to use the stock air filter...even though it's restrictive. The reason being is that I dislike the messy spit back that occurs when no filter is installed. The other issue I have with using a filter off the end of the mixer box is that I lack space. And if I did create some room for a short filter, the rear tire is right next to the airbox (it's all open in that area to the tire) and tons of crap would get flinged into the filter. I currently have a standard filter on the carb and a metal screen covering the inlet on the carb box.

If I were to spend the time to bring down my squish to ~1.2mm, I would probably just take my cylinder in to get it decked. By the time I fiddle around with measuring and buying new packers, I'd probably be better off just getting it decked. Will a 1.2mm squish be noticeably better than a 1.5mm? What exactly will it do for me from a reliably standpoint? Originally my compression was 177psi, but I didn't want the extra heat that the higher compression would create. So I reworked the bowl so that I could bring down the compression to a 145psi.

I placed and order with SIP for a 55/100, 52/140, and an idle jet kit that includes a 60/160.

I drilled out the hole in the carb to 2.35mm.


Picture is of the metal screen that's in front of the airbox inlet. It helps keep the big chunks out.



Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:43 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:43 pm linkquote
Squish at 1.2 is better. 1.5 will go ok. Can always change it later.

Is there a way to get a bellows from the box to the under tank? Those gauze carb covers can be restrictive (area reduction, small holes, big turbulence). Add it to the carb filter and could easy be too much. Bellows to the frame somehow and you don't need either.
Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:58 am

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Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:58 am linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
Squish at 1.2 is better. 1.5 will go ok. Can always change it later.

Is there a way to get a bellows from the box to the under tank? Those gauze carb covers can be restrictive (area reduction, small holes, big turbulence). Add it to the carb filter and could easy be too much. Bellows to the frame somehow and you don't need either.
I originally wanted to run a bellows from the carb to the frame, but I couldn't figure out a way to fit one in there. The metal screen filter (it has no gauze) doesn't seem that restrictive when I blow through it. I don't have anything scientific to compare the flow with, but I feel as though I could easily run a 5K race with it in my mouth and it wouldn't slow me down.







Last edited by whodatschrome on Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:02 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6525
Location: San Diego, CA
Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:02 am linkquote
the metal filters can be surprisingly restrictive. i tried one for a bit on my PWK, it hated it. but then that was on the carb direct instead of for the airbox on a stock carb.
Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:38 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:38 am linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
I originally wanted to run a bellows from the carb to the frame, but I couldn't figure out a way to fit one in there. The metal screen filter (it has no gauze) doesn't seem that restrictive when I blow through it. I don't have anything scientific to compare the flow with, but I feel as though I could easily run a 5K race with it in my mouth and it wouldn't slow me down.
Had bad experiences with gauze covers. More restrictive than they look. Get a bellows to frame for the red one and put the sponge filter on the pink one. Must be able to make some shield to keep the worst of the dust from the wheel.
Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:45 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:45 pm linkquote
Whodats, dunno if you've seen Patrick's filter setup? Might solve your issue.

https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2111927#2111927
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:05 am

Ossessionato
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Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:05 am linkquote
i finally got a handfull of various idle jets from SIP...
55-100
52-140
55-160
58-160
60-160
65-160
68-160

So which one do i begin with?
Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:33 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:33 pm linkquote
That's a lot of jets. 62/160? Will be wrong anyway but have to start somewhere.
Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:44 pm

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Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:44 pm linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
That's a lot of jets. 62/160? Will be wrong anyway but have to start somewhere.
It was a complete jet kit that i bought...expect for a 62/160. I didn't want to make a second order with SIP, or so i thought. What's a different jet recommendation ?
Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:17 am

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Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:17 am linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
That's a lot of jets. 62/160? Will be wrong anyway but have to start somewhere.
I'm hoping to take a test ride today. Is there a different idle jet besides a 62/160 that you recommend that i start out with?
Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:37 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:37 am linkquote
Start bigger. 65/160 should be too big but a fair place to start
Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:51 pm

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Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:51 pm linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
Start bigger. 65/160 should be too big but a fair place to start
I was just testing the the revs of the scooter while it was on the centerstand. Here's the results...
The engine sounded pretty darn rich from idle all the way up to about 6600-6700 rpm, and that's as high as it would rev. Which should i adjust first, the main or the idle jet?

current specs...
-PM Tuning up and over pipe
-AC120, BE4, 132 main
-65/160 idle jet
-timing to 24 degrees @ 3k RPM

Yes i still have the dommed screen filter that's covering the airbox opening. I need some sort of protecting from gravel and other crud getting in there.

Last edited by whodatschrome on Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:09 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:09 pm linkquote
Try the same revving on the stand but without the screen filter on the box. If it runs better without it will need to be changed for something with more area.

First thing is main jet and AC at WOT (while ignoring everything else). Sticking with the 120 reduce the main jet until it just about revs to max when wide open on the stand.
Take it for a ride and fine tune the main jet.
Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:18 pm

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Sun Sep 25, 2022 2:18 pm linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
Try the same revving on the stand but without the screen filter on the box. If it runs better without it will need to be changed for something with more area.

First thing is main jet and AC at WOT (while ignoring everything else). Sticking with the 120 reduce the main jet until it just about revs to max when wide open on the stand.
Take it for a ride and fine tune the main jet.
With the screen removed it will rev a few hundred RPM higher. So it will get up to a VERY boggy 6900-7000 rpm. The boggy characteristics sounded exactly the same whether the screen was install or not.
Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:05 pm

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Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:05 pm linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
Try the same revving on the stand but without the screen filter on the box. If it runs better without it will need to be changed for something with more area.

First thing is main jet and AC at WOT (while ignoring everything else). Sticking with the 120 reduce the main jet until it just about revs to max when wide open on the stand.
Take it for a ride and fine tune the main jet.
I swapped out the 132 for a 130 MJ, and it now revs out to about 7900-8000 rpm (with the screen installed) on the centerstand. It's still feels rich throughout the whole rpm range.
Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:31 pm

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Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:31 pm linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
I swapped out the 132 for a 130 MJ, and it now revs out to about 7900-8000 rpm (with the screen installed) on the centerstand. It's still feels rich throughout the whole rpm range.
And i just dropped down to a 128 MJ, and it now revs out to around 8500-8600+ rpm (with the screen installed) on the centerstand. The whole rpm range sounds and feels much more clean. I guess it's time for a test ride.
Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:34 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:34 pm linkquote
the anticipation grows...



Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:59 pm

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Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:59 pm linkquote
I got a short test ride in. It was pretty underwhelming...until I burned the skin behind my knee on the PM Up and Over pipe...again for I think the 4th time now. Shorts and hot pipes don't mix. Well, whatever. Maybe I'll learn my lesson some other time, but not today.

Back to the test ride with a 128 MJ and that 65/160 idle jet...
The scooter was SUPER boggy while under load. It had lots of difficulties revving from about 3200 rpm to 6500 rpm. And it wouldn't rev past 6500 rpm in 1st through 3rd, even going down a steep hill. 4th gear was useless.

Does this mean I need to switch to a different idle jet, or keep leaning out my main jet?
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