Modern Vespa

Oops have I touched a nerve?
Doncaster is a dump too however I've not had my Vespa nicked or moved when I park it in the town.

Not touched a nerve at all, I love living in London but completely understand it doesn't suit everyone.

I really have no idea what Doncaster is like, never been there and will probably never go there. All I know about it I learnt from The Catherine Tate Show and The Doncaster Spinners. I can say without reservation that I love Catherine Tate.

I haven't watched the clip but I've no doubt it's an accurate representation of the average Doncastrian. I weren't trying to get a rise btw. Each to his own it's just that there seems to be a lot of negative stuff written about London. Personally I would hate the traffic, the parking and the ridiculous ''congestion charge''

I park in the first bay on that road that has an available space - that's my only requirement. There are 3 in total on that road and then you start entering the one way system at which point there are 3 I can think of in nearby roads.

I spent 8 months parking off Oxford St in temp (contract agency) work at different locations and haven't had this issue except on this road, so to me it's not the 'normal' experience. However this is not a temp role - it's permanent. So in an ideal world I wouldn't be parking 5/10 minutes walk away from where I work, but as close as possible.

I've been riding for 18 months now and this is the first time my vespa has been moved.

I've lived in London my entire life and love it's inclusiivity - after Brexit it has made me question the welcome I'd get in a lot of locations outside of London. I'm not saying there's no racism or prejudice in London, but better the devil you know?

Your thread title asks how we feel about having our bikes moved which is really beside the point.

You are not happy that yours is being moved and that's OK. The thing is it's going to continue to happen and there's nothing you can do to stop it. You can only change what you can control. Get used to it or park somewhere else, it really does come down to that.

A big heavy bike is less likely to be moved but doesn't sound like that's going to work for you.

A scoot is hands down the best way to get around London but if you are going to park centrally you can't be precious about your machine.

I do have a problem, but if everyone had said this was the norm I would've assumed I was missing scoot etiquette and accepted I need to get used to it.

Now I think I'm going to attempt to develop friendships with a few owners so we could keep an eye on each others bikes - ie if you see someone and you know it's not their bike tell them not to touch it but you can contact the owner if it really needs to be moved. I have no issue if my bike needs to be moved but the people moving it don't care about it or what they move it into contact with or any inconvenience they may cause the owner. A neighbourhood watch for scoots/bikes as it were.

just had another easy way that may stop this happening

get a note lamenated and stick it to your scooter saying

I can see this scooter from my office window and I am watching if you try to move it I will film you and report you

or something along these lines

How on earth would the disklock stop others from moving your bike? All the bikes in London have chains or disk locks. Those that don't would of been stolen long ago. Actually those that rely on a grip lock wouldn't last too long either. your parking looks absolutely fine in the picture though the bikes 3rd and 4th from the left have taken up far too much space. Perhaps you should photo how you get blocked in and then we can comment on that. I have (very) occasionally had to work my way across a couple of bikes to get to mine (I'm very gentle with the bikes I cross over). If all the bikes are closely parked then maybe it's worth sitting in Starbucks at going home time to see how the other riders get out? Do they have issues? LOL!

Could work but could have opposite effect as well - the OP wrote she can't see the bike at all and can't do much about it. Another approach could be a note saying "Please don't move/block the bike, cheers from rider with back issues" or similar - which OP mentioned. But there is no silver bullet for the problem and I've seen this sort of opportunistic/careless behaviour of a minority of people in central parts of larger European cities multiple time - with bikes, cars, bicycles.

My solution for the problem is having an a-to-b ride and being prepared (insured) that it can get moved/dent/nicked anytime - and an a-to-a ride which is kept in private garage, taken care of and 99 percent of the time not parked at "risky" places... But I certainly understand that this is not the best solution for everyone.

Yesterday I parked up in my usual bay (in London) and there were two scooters parked at jaunty angles taking up the space where you'd normally fit 4 motorbikes. Both were Vespa et4's (I'm sure a coincidence). I suppose I could of rode around looking for another motorcycle bay but I didn't - I just moved one of them so it was parked properly and so I could park - there there was still plenty of space around both bikes. While I was parking, another rider had to move the other scooter so he could park also. He seemed to be quite careful about doing so. I didn't see it as messing with another bike - I just saw it as gross ignorance on the part of the original riders. There's also two MP3's (the ones adapted to be ridden by car drivers) that always park in the middle of the bay away from other bikes (and each other) and nearly always end up wasting space - I'm not even sure whether they are allowed to park in bike bays or not - anyone? Oddly enough neither the et4's or the two MP3's are locked. Is it just bad rider education?

Curious, how are you supposed to get your scooter out if the other scoots are so close that you can't put your feet down?

That's a great question. I thought the same thing when I saw the pictures of them all together like sardines in a can.

Well, for one thing, all the security methods mentioned here, including mine, are simply a deterrent: given enough time, and assuming an above-average level of aptitude, anyone who seriously wants your bike will get it (or move it), period.

The second thing: in the case of the GripLock, it does a nice two-step of locking the front brake and immobilizing the throttle (and, unlike your typical disc-lock, isn't situated low enough for someone with long-arm cutters to use the ground for leverage): someone who isn't a seasoned thief but simply someone who's incensed at your bike occupying "their" rightful space can't simply wheel your machine away (which they can do, albeit awkwardly, even with the Immobilizer engaged) with the front brake locked; the only option is lifting the thing (helps if you've got a friend; two if you've got a GTS), and carrying it away...a few feet, several yards, or, in the case of thievery, into the nearest pickup/van/lorry. This is all possible, but more than a bit more difficult with one or more of the abovementioned countermeasures.

Again, nothing's foolproof, but doing nothing allows an absolute fool free rein with your wheels.

Bikes that are stolen in London are ped-pushed away. It takes approx 20 seconds to defeat the steering lock and however long it takes to defeat your extra security. The grip lock can be made completely ineffective in about 10 seconds with a small spanner to disable the front brake and the throttle isn't used anyway when ped pushing a bike away. I'm only pointing this out in case anyone here in London thought the grip-lock might be an effective security deterrent, it's not.

If I was correcting someones crappy parking (from the pictures it appears that the OP parks fine) it doesn't make the slightest difference whether there's a lock on the bike or not.

One of you picture with the bikes touching looks like parking in Macau !! I personally would never move another persons property to squeeze in but clearly in central London its different. I think most of the problem is riders are not enthusiasts of bikes/scooters so don't treat them with the same respect.

Approaching someone over it will likely get you a look of indifference back or as you are a not so delicate female, aggression.



Part and parcel of city life. I don't see bikes being moved in Paris but cars are regularly shunted..

As far as I can tell in Macau they park on the centre stand and standing in front of the bike pulling it towards them, it rocks off......... not sure what trickery they use to put the stand down when they push it in the slot...?

I'm afraid that when you're riding a small, easily moveable bike, you simply have to get used to having it moved, especially if you've tried to leave space around it while parking. My ET4 used to get moved constantly - it really used to wind me up until I found myself doing it one day when I was trying to get into a bay and found another ET4 taking up a space that would easily hold both of us - coincidentally, one of the bays in the northwest quadrant between Tottenham court road and Oxford street, which is where it looks like you are? Most of those bays are rammed all the time. Have you tried the bay on upper Regent street just across from the BBC building? It's a very large one with a taxi stand at the bottom and there always seems to be space in it.

Given the location of those bays, the fact that they're always busy, and the fact that people who park in them may have very good reasons for choosing them (they may be able to see their bike from their office window, for instance), I'd actually consider it both unreasonable and inconsiderate to make a fuss when your small, light, stickered-up ET4 gets moved to make room. It's a bit like those people who put their bag on the seat next to them on a crowded tube train and then sigh and roll their eyes when you ask them to move it!

if someone's parked so close to me that I can't get my feet down, I consider it fair play to brace my foot somewhere on their bike in order to rock mine off its stand.

I would be furious if someone moved my scooter.
Shows they have ZERO Respect for you...or your property.

Put a cover over it, like the two at the end in your photo. Maybe that would make a good deterrent.

In London, that's not necessarily the case. the greater London area has a population density of about 4000 people per square mile - and it's up to ten times higher than that in the center, where the OP works. The population density in Nebraska, by contrast, is about 25 people per square mile - again, averaged out over the whole state, but I think you see where I'm going with this.

You simply cannot expect, in central London, to be possessive about space. There are too many other people who need space as well, and if they bump into you sometimes, or crowd you on public transport, or move your scooter, or ask you to shift your chair so that they can get past you in a restaurant, it doesn't mean that they have zero respect for you, it simply means they're trying to get on with their lives in a very, very crowded part of the world.

I moved here from Canada in 1997 and struggled with the space thing for a long time - I still don't like it, and eventually I'll move someplace where I feel I can actually stretch my legs properly, but for now I've come to accept it.

Although technically 'illegal'[1], parking PTWs on any (usually wide) sidewalk is taken as the norm in Paris. So there's a vastly greater area for parking available than in London with its narrow streets and minimal pedestrian pavements.

[1] As I recall (please correct me if this is no longer true), in Paris random swoops are done every so often a street at a time, and all PTWs parked other than in designated spaces get a ticket/fine. This ensures the law can still be upheld when really necessary and is analogous to the UK practice of barring access to some footpaths twice a year (usually Christmas and Easter) to prevent them becoming rights of way.

Its true its illegal to park on the pavement, but very widely accepted. I see ticket officers randomly slapping tickets onto bikes but they don't put much enthusiasm in it...... after all, they don't really want people to stop and loose that revenue I don't know about the street sweeps, if it still goes on.

~~~~+1

~~~so solly, wanted to add:

I travel frequently in and around Gainesville Florida, a university town (University of Florida, Go Gators!=:-) Same deal around campus, plenty of scooters. little room for them to park. genie is spot on with her analysis, with so little room to park tiny vehicles like scooters, it's not dowdy at all for others to move a scoot over so they can park as well. Others may have better and different ideas

Anyway, it could be worse....

Dominos. Oh the irony.

Just pointing out that you really don't know for sure that the bike in your picture is the guy that moved you. It is possible someone else moved you, parked, and left, leaving an open slot for someone else. Unless you put a camera somewhere, you don't know what is really happening.

That said, I'd be pretty upset if someone moved my bike, so I get your frustration.

I've started checking my bike in the morning before lunch, just after lunch and once in the afternoon.

Friday a guy (white scooter) made space for me to put my Vespa in. All fine until I left for the day. Someone has moved his bike and squeezed in between us even though there were spaces at either end during my mid afternoon check and upon my return to leave at 5.30pm. Getting out was not fun - I had 2 people offer to move the Vespa that suddenly showed up and while I made it out I do wish I had let them help me!

Today I'm in a space that clearly held a bigger bike. I've checked it twice as I feel like someone is going to move it.

On another note - someone appears to have given me a flat tyre. I thought it felt weird but knew I'd just topped up my tyre pressures. Checked it this morning after I got in and yup I have a flat front tyre. Going to my friends workshop after work to take a quick look over the front and rear and make sure nothing else is wrong.

Last week I had to retighten both my wing mirrors after they started swinging after I hit a bump..

I know what you mean - but I'm a smoker and my bike is parked either across the road or to the left of our building. I check that scoot every time I go for a smoke or to the staff canteen (for coffee and lunch!), or to the other office I use in the building next door. Sounds excessive, but I'm checking because of what I've already experienced - so at least 5 times a day between 9 and half 5?

When I came to go home on Friday afternoon (I had noted the bike to my left changed shortly after lunch).

I got to my bike and thought 'oh, white bike guy said he was leaving after 6, but maybe he left earlier....oh wait no....he's been moved to the right?!'

I spoke to him this morning (wish I had parked next to him now) and he thought someone had taken my space after leaving, so I showed him the pics I'd taken. To be honest looked like who ever parked next to him later in the day left enough space that it was possible. What I don't understand is how there were empty spaces at either end of the bay during my afternoon checks (PC Chanpagne on the case!) yet they'd chosen to move his bike instead.

It sounds to me like this is really stressing you out a lot. Have you read back through the posts in this thread, particularly those from other London riders? Trying to keep people from moving your small, light, narrow scooter is, I'm afraid, a losing battle. You're parking in a really crowded part of London where bike space is at an absolute premium. It wouldn't surprise me if someone had let the air out of your tyres if they perceived that you've been consistently parking inconsiderately. Don't think for a second that I condone that kind of stupid behaviour, but there are some angry people out there.

Bikes come and go in and out of these bays on a regular basis. A space that you noted and recorded as empty five minutes ago may change hands two or three times over the next fifteen minutes.

If it bothers you as much as it seems to then the only advice that I can offer is to move to a less crowded bay.

I could have moved to one side or the other, but I don't want to have to squeeze my way out. Most people parked poorly today though. If I had parked next to my white scoot friend (arrived as I did) we probably could have fit into another space together and been alright, but I didn't see him at first.

So, going to keep checking in case someone leaves and I can move over a bit.

Already checked the scoot twice so far. Lunch in 30 minutes so will be checking again soon! A bigger bike could have fit where I did for sure though.

I try and avoid parking at the ends of motorcycle parking bays in case someone moves my scoot out of the bay and I get a ticket.

The end is the worst possible space, people avoid them, because people accept the fact that bikes (especially small, light bikes) get moved.

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve by checking up on your scoot 5 times a day and taking photo's of it when you leave it.

If you continue to park there it will continue to be moved. If you see someone moving it what are you going to do?

+1 You are not the only person in London whose scooter has ever been moved. I know you love your ride, but a small, light bike with a somewhat 'lived in' appearance is going to be the first one that people will approach if they need space. And I suspect that you're going to get an earful from anyone you approach to try and stop them moving it.

Yeh, I have. It pissed me off to start with but not anymore.

I can't help being considerate - that's just how I am. I have literally done my best to ensure I am not parking in a manner that affects other riders.

I guess my main thing currently is trying to prove that there is no need for me to be moved. I am definitely not parking poorly. Some days I leave and all is well and others it's a nightmare.

I guess I'm also hoping that because I have proof I can monitor those I'm also seeing on a regular basis. Work out whether or not it's a courier and because I am now checking regularly I can see most changes during the day. I'm also making friends with other riders as I'm out there so much so it's not all bad. The pics also help me see who's generally there all day, so I can work out if parking next to them is a good idea or not.

Talk to them. I have no problem talking to someone about touching my bike. I've accepted my limitations within the situation and am trying to find a solution that works for me in the interim.

Yup.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

I live in a small town in a rural state, so the problem you face is quite different from anything I face, but, still...

...people here are almost too friendly, so drivers have a habit of stopping in the middle of the road so that pedestrians can cross the street, even when there is no crosswalk. This is not the law -- in fact, it perhaps violates the law -- but it is the norm.

My wife, who is from a large Canadian city, found this hard to accept, as it violates her Canadian code of ethics, which means she's a lot like a Brit, which is that the law is the law, and she walks a lot (a lot!), so that frequently she would find herself standing on the corner with cars stopped for her to cross, and she'd wave them on to keep driving, and they'd wave for her to walk, and she'd wave for them to keep driving, and they'd honk and wave, and she'd get pissed and wave in a grumpy manner, and they'd tell her to go f--k herself, and she'd come home and cry.

I pointed out that there were only two solutions: stop walking or adapt to the norm. The third option, the one she was waiting for, that she would single handedly substitute the law for the norm, didn't really exist, not in this plane of reality, at least.

Your problem will go away the minute you stop worrying about it.

Which, I know, is more easily said than done, but it is still quite doable.