Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:32 am

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
 
Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:32 am linkquote
I know alignment has been discussed a zillion times. My MP3 "walks or tracks" at slow speeds. Front end wanders or perhaps follows imperfections in pavement. From my formula ford days I have a hunch it's toe setting. Scoot has been dropped at least once.
I have not seen this specific problem on here before.
Advice?



Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:35 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:35 am linkquote
It could also be steering notch.
What year/how many miles on your MP3?
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:37 am

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
 
Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:37 am linkquote
2009 15000 miles or so. Please explain "steering notch"?
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:55 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:55 am linkquote
Chaiabusa wrote:
2009 15000 miles or so. Please explain "steering notch"?
Until recently (I don't know when, but your 2009 would fit in the "before" period) Piaggio had a problem with basically no grease and too tight on the two main steering bearing sets. Being too tight they developed a notch, where the rollers dented into the races. This results in the bike being sort of stuck steering straight ahead, which actually makes it difficult to hold a straight line.

I had a notch on my BV500 and I can tell you it feels very strange.

You may also have something else wrong; out of alignment as you said, or loose wheel bearing, loose steering linkage, etc....
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:56 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:56 am linkquote
Oh, and if the steering bearings were tight, 15,000 miles is absolutely enough miles to have totally notched bearings. IIRC some had notch at or before 8,000 miles.
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:03 am

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: 04 Feb 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
 
Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:03 am linkquote
Great info! I'll check toe, camber and wheel bearings 1st. Just put tires on it didn't really check steering or wheel bearings while up on jack.
I recently had ankle surgery and am in a walking boot. My Hayabusa, Harley Road King, Kawasaki Vaquero and 954rr are all covered in dust already. The MP3 came out of storage yesterday and got a battery, a bath and tires. It and the Genuine Buddy 125 will be my Wind Therapy for the next 3 months. Thanks for the advice
#noshifting!
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:19 am

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Location: Chandler AZ
 
Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:19 am linkquote
Forgive my ignorance as I'm late to the party. Is there a bearing kit available to do the steering? Looks like a fun job. I have nothing to do for at least 2 weeks before I go back to work. Sounds like I'll know this scooter much better than I ever wanted to by then.
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:07 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:07 am linkquote
Chaiabusa wrote:
Forgive my ignorance as I'm late to the party. Is there a bearing kit available to do the steering? Looks like a fun job. I have nothing to do for at least 2 weeks before I go back to work. Sounds like I'll know this scooter much better than I ever wanted to by then.
There are at least two options available.
1. Gonzo tweak. Short term fix for notched bearings.
MP3 - Short-term fix for "the notch"

2. New bearings. This will involve removing and bleeding both sets of front brakes, as well as both sets of tilt lock hydraulics. Big job; I think shops charge on the order of $1000 to do it. Shop and exploded parts manuals here:
http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Piaggio%20MP3/
Site owner requests that if you use a manual here, download and save it locally so you don't have to go back for the same thing.

Whichever way you go, get a grease bolt so you can fill the steer tubes up with grease. And I do mean FILL. This bolt is NOT intended to replace the one already there; it's a tool not a part.
https://scooterpartsco.com/recambi-scooter/pontedera/piaggio-mp3-bolt-with-grease-fitting-020943y?zenid=08469408450761e48cf16e1f46da2792
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:30 am

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: 04 Feb 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
 
Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:30 am linkquote
Excellent. I own a really nice pneumatic speed bleeder. I swear by it. Used to boil the brake fluid on our race cars. Full flush in 5 minutes. Hopefully that will come in handy.
Thanks for the info
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:22 pm

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
 
Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:22 pm linkquote
Is there an aftermarket bearing kit for the steering neck or do I need to order own parts?
Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:01 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:01 am linkquote
Chaiabusa wrote:
Is there an aftermarket bearing kit for the steering neck or do I need to order own parts?
I am sure the bearings could be ordered from Timken or similar, but there are also (I think) dust shields that are custom to Piaggio.
Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:04 am

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: 04 Feb 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
 
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MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:04 am linkquote
I'd read somewhere that the top bearings are proprietary. I've been through this before with 2 stroke crankshaft bearings. I've seen kits on eBay that are aftermarket. Curious if they are any good. They are all from Europe.
Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:22 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 22098
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
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Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 22098
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:22 am linkquote
Madison Sully wrote:
Chaiabusa wrote:
Is there an aftermarket bearing kit for the steering neck or do I need to order own parts?
I am sure the bearings could be ordered from Timken or similar, but there are also (I think) dust shields that are custom to Piaggio.
I got a set of dust seals thru my local bearing supplier and bearings.

here is some more info:

notch bearing replacement How to remove the steering tapered bearings

bearing part numbers
KBC is 32008XJ.

Timken is 32008XM 90KM1 BRG

SKF is 32008 XTN9/Q bearing dust seal 32008 XAV

NSK32008XTN9/Q

This page has links and dimensions of the bearings, note that it also has some roller thrust bearings, you want tapered thrust bearings

http://srg-bearings.com/NTN/NTN32008/

Note that all these bearings are marked 32008 which is a standard industry size bearing.
Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:38 am

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
 
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MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Location: Chandler AZ
Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:38 am linkquote
Wow! That helps a lot! Thanks.
Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:43 pm

Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 13 May 2017
Posts: 258
Location: Land of Oz
 
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
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Posts: 258
Location: Land of Oz
Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:43 pm linkquote
Chaiabusa wrote:
Wow! That helps a lot! Thanks.
OAD is the man. He knows his shit!
Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:10 am

Hooked
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 288
Location: England
 
Hooked
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 288
Location: England
Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:10 am linkquote
Why did Piaggio not fit dust shields to the bearings if they are commercially available ?
Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:37 pm

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
 
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Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:37 pm linkquote
Ok, here's more of my ignorance showing. I have the bodywork stripped off my MP3. With the front on a jack I can literally feel it drop into the notch at center. I am assuming this is not normal. It feels like it has a hard stop at center. At low speeds it is almost unridable. It walks left and right up until about 20 mph.
To those that have played this game, was yours this way as well?
I'm tempted to do the whole deal and replace the bearings probably top and bottom just because I'll be there already.
Questions: do the hydraulic lines go out the bottom of the tubes? Is there a torque value for the spammer nuts on the steering stems? Can I use the aftermarket bearings and seals without buying anything from piaggio? Do I only need to bleed the brake calipers and the tilt mechanism at the two cylinders?
What else am I missing?
Thanks
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:00 am

Hooked
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 288
Location: England
 
Hooked
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 288
Location: England
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:00 am linkquote
Both hyd systems will need to be disconnected and then bleed.
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:05 am

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: 04 Feb 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
 
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MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:05 am linkquote
upper bearings
are the upper and lower bearings different? I know the lowers are the culprit, but as long as I'm in there,,,
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:37 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8765
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8765
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:37 am linkquote
Re: upper bearings
Chaiabusa wrote:
are the upper and lower bearings different? I know the lowers are the culprit, but as long as I'm in there,,,
You have to get parts from Piaggio because you can't buy the metal cups aftermarket and they get destroyed taking the races out.
Buy the spanner wrench from Piaggio to tighten the spanner nuts.

Hydraulic fluid, get a 60-100 cc syringe with tubing and a Tee and push the brake fluid up from the solenoids to the master cylinder. Same for the brakes.
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:51 pm

Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: 04 Feb 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
 
Member
MP3 250 Genuine Buddy 125
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Posts: 18
Location: Chandler AZ
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:51 pm linkquote
Holy crap. Fixed!!!! Just did the quickie move the bearing fix. It took 10 minutes a side. As soon as I did left side the centered steering notch went away. Did right side. Greased the heck out of both sides with a grease gun and drilled bolt. Took it for a ride: completely different scooter.
Now just need to put all the plastic back on. Thank you to all of you for your help! New Bearings will go into storage for full replacement if notchiness comes back.
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:52 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 7006
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:52 pm linkquote
Chaiabusa wrote:
Holy crap. Fixed!!!! Just did the quickie move the bearing fix. It took 10 minutes a side. As soon as I did left side the centered steering notch went away. Did right side. Greased the heck out of both sides with a grease gun and drilled bolt. Took it for a ride: completely different scooter.
Now just need to put all the plastic back on. Thank you to all of you for your help! New Bearings will go into storage for full replacement if notchiness comes back.

Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:28 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 22098
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 22098
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:28 pm linkquote
Re: upper bearings
WEB-Tech wrote:
Chaiabusa wrote:
are the upper and lower bearings different? I know the lowers are the culprit, but as long as I'm in there,,,
You have to get parts from Piaggio because you can't buy the metal cups aftermarket and they get destroyed taking the races out.
Buy the spanner wrench from Piaggio to tighten the spanner nuts.
not true. see my post above on part numbers. I got the dust covers thru my local bearing supplier.
Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:34 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8765
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8765
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:34 am linkquote
Re: upper bearings
old as dirt wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
Chaiabusa wrote:
are the upper and lower bearings different? I know the lowers are the culprit, but as long as I'm in there,,,
You have to get parts from Piaggio because you can't buy the metal cups aftermarket and they get destroyed taking the races out.
Buy the spanner wrench from Piaggio to tighten the spanner nuts.
not true. see my post above on part numbers. I got the dust covers thru my local bearing supplier.
Thanks, just ordered a set.
Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:04 am

Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4398
Location: Netherlands Olst
 
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
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Posts: 4398
Location: Netherlands Olst
Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:04 am linkquote
those tyres aren't that michelin Gold ?
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