Modern Vespa

The weekend project was replacing the ignition on the Stella with the new SIP Electronic Ignition. They make four different models, the full combination of either static or variable timing and AC or DC output.

I opted for variable timing and DC output for LED conversion on my Stella.

First off, when it arrived, I have to give them credit for nice packaging. It arrived with everything well-packaged and good translation on the documentation. Definitely not the sketchy Google Translate from Italian to English that I've come to expect with parts like this.

Installation was the easiest of any aftermarket ignition I've installed. The slots on the stator were huge, which was a nice change of pace. It also meant I didn't have to extend them. The stator plate was also correctly marked with A an IT stamps.

I took a first guess at location, marked TDC, it fired up and I strobed it with a timing light, adjusted once, strobed it again, and I was good-to-go.

Mounting the CDI required a custom bracket, but that was a simple matter of cutting, bending, drilling, and tapping some aluminum stock. The connection from the CDI to the bracket is also its ground, so it needs to be solidly bolted. If you just loosely tie it on with a zip tie to test, your motor won't run right...not that I'd know...

I swapped this from a static Ducati CDI setup that I'd been running since my Flytech started behaving badly and while the carb needs some tweaking in the 1/4 throttle range, I'm pleased. I didn't get it out and really thrash it, but it's starting 1-2 kicks and running smooth and staying cool under load.

For the lighting, the DC conversion was relatively straightforward, as you can see from my amended wiring diagram.

The headlight is LED and significantly brighter. I could see the headlight on the pavement while riding with a heavy overcast yesterday, which never would have happened before. I might even get rid of the Mad Max light bar since I didn't feel the need for it in the pitch black sections of my neighborhood that I usually use it in at night.

It stays bright and doesn't flicker at idle, which is definitely nice. That's one of those things that became a pet peeve of mine over the years and which is now gone on this bike.

I have LED turn signals & flasher unit on order and they should be here this week, as the incandescent bulbs still cause a little bit of dimming when they flash.

This may be a matter of taste, but for me one nice thing is that the headlight now ties to the battery, so it comes on with the key rather than only when the motor is running.

In summary, I'm pleased with the results and the project took me maybe three hours from start to finish for both the ignition swap and the DC conversion. The initial ignition swap was about an hour, including fabricating the bracket for the CDI. most of the time was spent over on the left side of the bike replacing the old regulator/rectifier with the new regulator, crimping some custom connectors to bond the AC & DC circuits, and testing that everything was working as expected.

Chandlernan, you are awesome! Thank you for posting up the review! Now I'm even more tempted to get that DC kit.

Thanks! I'm always glad to be of assistance

I also realized I forgot the ground wire from the stator on my diagram, so I fixed that and uploaded a new copy, too.

Check your voltage on the headlight! If you look at the wiring diagram you connected the violet and the grey wire together. This makes the power have to go from the battery all the way up to the headset and back through the violet and then back up to the headset through the grey wire. The wiring is to small and long to prevent heat and it creates a good amount of voltage drop. I know you have an LED headlight and so do I, but its still wonky!

I ended up installing a small 12V automotive relay so that when you turn the ignition on, the violet wire activates the relay and sends power directly from the battery to the headlight lead (grey wire). This increases efficiency, prevents the voltage drop and keeps the wiring cool.

Side note: what did you do with your old LML stator & flywheel, for sale by chance?

that makes a lot of sense.

I was just going for the quick n' dirty, initially, and it seems to be doing fine thus far, but I think it's about to be time for another "what did you just order on Amazon?" text from my wife...

So does that kit come with its own DC regulator?

Yes, the regulator is included.

What is the advantage of this kit over the stock setup? besides the variable ignition?

It's a higher output stator (110W), including at idle, so the headlight is nice & bright even at lights, plus the full DC system.

They also make a static ignition version which is identical other than the CDI.

The variable timing curve is interesting, too, because unlike the Flytech (and, I think, the Vespatronic), it continues to retard linearly as far as your motor will rev. Check the PDF's for a chart in case I'm not making sense

The Flytech retards to 7,000 RPM's, then stops, which makes it easier to set (you know the max retard is going to be 7 degrees, regardless of your redline RPMs), but if you can rev past 7k, you get no additional retard.

As a result, you can advance the timing more at the low end, giving a broader power band.

that wiring diagram hurts my brain, now I see why the complaints about additional wires in the Stella!!

You think that's bad, go look at the wiring diagram for a modern harley or sport bike. They make the Stella look like my VBB.

So with the full DC version, you cant run the rev counter in a Sip speedo.

Is there a way to use the AC version, and add DC to it?

Chandlerman, I can only see one page in each of the attachments, so I only get page 1, 4, and 6.

Any chance of chucking the others up (or is my Mac misbehaving again)

Craig

Hmm...not sure why the PDF's didn't break out correctly.

I'll figure it out and upload corrected versions when I get a chance to look at it.

Link is password protected

I guess you could purchase the AC version, then run it to a regulator/rectifier and break out DC from there. That would have been a more stock-ish approach on the Stella. It wouldn't be as efficient, but it'd still be a 110W output from the stator at idle.

I updated the original uploads to versions that actually included both pages in each attachment.

and now the link to the single page download is working without a password, I think... SIP Ignition Installation Documents, single PDF.

I thought the stock unit was around 95-100watts? I converted mine to full DC and have no power issues at any point. I used to run a 55/60w H4 headlight as well, yet found the LED H4 better due to heat buildup.

Is the flywheel lighter? Sorry, just trying to figure out what the draw is to the setup on an LML.

I think the stock Stella setup is about 90W, but only at rev's. The SIP setup gives the full 110W at idle.

I know the P200E Ducati setup I was running before & after the flytech was only 90W, too.

And I might have the original LML stator lying around if you want it, but I had to destroy the flywheel to get it off the bike the first time I tore it down. And I already gave away the ignition off my second LML. If you want me to look around for the original stator, lemme know and I'll dig through my parts piles for it and be happy to send it your way.

I thought a stator/magneto could only efficiently generate AC power and am wondering if the only difference between the SIP AC and DC versions ignition systems is the regulator/rectifier and how the stators are grounded? Basically, are they simply floating the ground on the stator on the DC version and then providing a different regulator/rectifier? If this is the case, you could still run the AC feed wire for the Rev Counter off of the stator lead going into the regulator. I'm no expert - try at own risk!

Yes a stator only generates AC.

Nice one Chandlerman, I'm very jealous!

I'll check the output and see, but not until the weekend. Given that it's the same stator & flywheel, that makes sense, though.

After a few more days of riding, I'm still happy with it. Consistent first kick starts, including when the temp has been down in the low 20's f, too. I was needing 2-3 kicks with the static ignition over the previous few days, which may be an advantage solely to me, but I know I'm not the only year-round rider in places that sane people don't ride year-round.

It looks like SIP is out of stock for the variables kits...and won't be getting anymore for a few months.

There may be a problem in that the SIP Rev Counter will not accept the input signal from the 8 coil setup of the new SIP stator. I had to change the input signal on my rev counter when going from the standard Stella coil to the Pinasco Flytech with 3 charge coils. That may be the gotcha...

I've sent a message to SIP for advice on the DC/SIP speedo question. Will let you know what they say.

Dang...I guess I got lucky to get in on it right away.

My TrailTech tach is under-reading the output, similar to what it did with the FlyTech. It's showing half the actual RPM's (i.e. 2,000 RPM's is reported as 1,000).

I can fix that on the tach, but if the SIP Speedo doesn't allow for that, then you'd either be SOL or doing math in your head like I've been doing for the past week.

You can change the trail tech pulses per rev setting to fix that.

Yep. That's what I did for both the SIP and Flytech ignitions.

Well I got a reply from SIP regarding the tacho issue, here's what they said -

In a moment of weakness I succumbed to temptation and bought the variable DC version last week. It's almost ridiculous how easy it is to go full DC with this kit...so easy in fact, that it was giving me fits...i kept thinking that there was more to do to both the ignition kit and my harness.

Yeah, it's amazing how easy the full conversion was. Even after I went back in to do a proper relay rather than just routing the DC through the key circuit, it was still a trivial conversion once I sat down and worked it out on the wiring diagram.

And after a month, I'm still 100% pleased that I also gave in to my own moment of weakness.

Chandler, which wire in the Stella harness did you use for activating the relay?

I had to steal the orange & the purple wires, then split the turn signals off the violet to make it happen.

Then, the orange out from the regulator to the relay, and out the relay to the grey wire and turn signal side of the purple wire, which are now bonded together.

Minimally more work than the straight wire-up, but not bad.

I need to get a version of the wiring diagram posted with the relay at some point.

Just bumping this thread here to see how it's going with that SIP DC conversion. Mostly because I'm curious how that SIP all-in-one kit is doing, reliability-wise. OK, it's a sample size of two so far, but better than nothing.

Reason being, I've been through three Kytronic smart boosters in as many years, one of which only lasted a week. I *love* the immediate effects you see at low RPMs with variable ignition, but I'm not too fond of how these aftermarket units tend to give up the ghost sooner or later. And I'd love to have something installed that wasn't a constant source of worry.

At not quite two months in, it's solid as a rock.

As I noted over in "Today, I..." this morning, I took a sound file on my way to work this morning and the GSF Dyno app puts me at about 20-21 HP and a red line of 10,400 RPM's with no issues other than a flat spot at 6,500 RPM's.

Lights are bright, I'm still enjoying having the headlight any time the ignition is on, no flicker and pretty much every start is a first kick start, warm or cold.

I really couldn't be happier.

Well allrighty then, good to hear. I'll keep my eye on the site to see when it comes back in stock.

Flywheel's good quality? Balanced?

I guess the big downside is the loss of the RPM signal for the SIP speedo when you do the full DC conversion. I remember reading somewhere about being able to wire an AC line in there somewhere to get that working again. If that's impossible with this kit, it's not the end of the world -- I like to think my ears are now a reliable enough tachometer.

(Maybe the SIP boys down in the lab there should next focus on building a speedo showing the most important thing -- nothing but a giant CHT gauge occupying the entirety of the display. One that would blink and set off an alarm if the temp went above a predefined ceiling. I find that peering down every minute or so to read that teeny little celsius number can be distracting.)

In the meantime, I've got the Trailtech rectifier gathering dust in a drawer somewhere, and am thinking about going ahead and doing the DC conversion that I've been putting off for years. Maybe that's a bad idea and I should just wait to do it with this SIP kit, given how easy everyone here is saying the conversion is.

Also, this showed up in my YouTube recommendations last night.

SIP has a video tutorial on youtube for the installation.

I died a little every time he crimped terminals with a pair of pliers, but overall, I thought it covered the base install nicely.

I had that flywheel spinning over 10,000 RPM's this morning and the motor didn't feel like it was going to come apart. I figure that's pretty well-balanced.