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LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
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UTC quote
Geez, You are not having much luck.

A few kicks and scratches won't hurt. Unless you can feel them raised up with your finger nail then you'll have to give the inside a rub with some "sand" paper.

You have the oven at 350F right? The either banged the piece on a bench or table?

Keep up with the PB Blaster treatment for a bit longer. It has to get drawn right in by capillary action.

Do you have a dremel? A centre punch? You can grind three small "cups"/holes in the outer race to give a small area for the punch to bite on. Then tap each one in turn until... Tap, turn, tap etc..
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2004 Vespa ET4, 2009 Vespa S150, Suzuki Burgman 200
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@conchscooter avatar
2004 Vespa ET4, 2009 Vespa S150, Suzuki Burgman 200
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UTC quote
This is one of the issues I have with the GT/S design. I watched a mechanic at the dealership in Miami struggle for hours trying to release the rear wheel.
From that lesson I have stuck with the 150 Vespa design and finding myself in need of more hp I went well away from Piaggio.
Handlebar wobble, exhaust gasket, rear wheel removal, inaccessible oil filter, inaccesible gear oil filler, useless side stand, plastic lower side panels that have to come off for basic maintenance, inaccessible spark plugs and I wonder how a vehicle originally designed as simple universal transportation has devolved into something so complex and inaccessible. It really frosts me.
An air cooled 150 is a thing of beauty even though the gear oil is awkward and the spark plug is so-so (but unlike the GT/S doesn't lose its cap).
Rant over. Back to fighting the good fight. Best of luck.
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Hooked
"MY WIFES" 2010 GTS FASTER & BETTER ENGINEERED THAN YOURS!!
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UTC quote
Im starting to think its not the bike.
I cant for the life of me figure how a 2015 bike should have this much difficulty
on disassembly.

You can buy the swingarm piece on ebay for $25 all day long.

PB blaster is junk.

acetone & atf works best as a penetrant. And some heat.
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UTC

Molto Verboso
GTV300 (wife's)
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UTC quote
Is there something different about the 2015 swing arm design compared to the 2013?

I've changed the rear tire two or is it three times on wife's GTV and never used any thing more than a gentile tap with a plastic hammer to remove or install swing arm. Scooter has over 21,000 miles on it and still running factory bearing.

I can not for the life of me figure out why this one is being so much trouble. I'd suggest taking it to someone with a press to push it out but I'm afraid that something will get broken if it is indeed that tight.

And if it is that tight how the heck are you going to get it back in with new bearing???

If like turboblew says the swing arm part is available on Ebay for $25 I would just buy another one. And if you do how about shipping the stuck one to me to play with? I'll pay the shipping costs!
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2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
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UTC quote
theshuman, at this stage to get the inner race out, DO NOT put the swingarm in the oven. You only need a small expansion to take place. You need a proper heat gun to do this to heat up the swingarm very quickly around the stuck bearing race. Also, it's going to be best to use a bearing drift (a correctly fitting socket will do) because by now the race has been unevenly stressed and won't drop out. If someone brings something like this into the workshop for me to deal with I never use a penetrating oil as it's not worthwhile. This has become a straightforward heat and force situation.

METHOD: place the swingarm on a very solid surface. Support it on wooden blocks if necessary being carefully to support it around the bearing race area. You are going to be hitting the internal bearing race with a bearing drift (socket will do) and you do not want to distort the swingarm. WEARING GOOD EYE PROTECTION, get the heat gun and starting FURTHEST away from the bearing race, apply heat evenly in ever de-creasing circles. You don't have to heat the whole swingarm but just the area around the bearing race. Heating the swingarm furthest from the target area and working inwards to the stuck bearing race means substantial expansion will take place before transfer of heat to the race. Get it hot then working quickly, drive it forcefully out using your bearing drift and a heavy (2lb) hammer, NOT A MALLET. It has no choice but to come out, believe me! I think the reason you are having so much trouble is that you are simply not used to doing this type of job, and even knowing what to do is often not good enough to make it work. You are not to blame, anyone who is not used to the technique/s used in the workshop will often fall foul of "snags" like this. You are to be congratulated for your persistence and learning capability. Well done, please report back.

Ps. You will need to make a judgement as to how hard and for how long to carry on hitting it. Ultimately, some distortion to the swing arm could result from too much pounding on the race!
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UTC quote
Stromrider wrote:
DO NOT put the swingarm in the oven.
Why not? It is quite small and everyone has an oven. It has been done for decades with all sorts of engine parts.
Not every one has a heat gun. Yes heat gun will only heat the surrounding area if you don't aim it at the race. But aluminum transfers heat very quickly so ...
Stromrider wrote:
You are going to be hitting the internal bearing race with a bearing drift (socket will do) and you do not want to distort the swingarm.
As I see the problem at present only the outer race is stuck in the swing-arm piece and it is "hidden" behind the inside flange on the arm. So there is nothing visible to hit. Need attention with a dremel. If one is not available then...

Last resort is to buy a new arm but every cloud has a silver lining?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
Nobody's ever hear d of a blind bearing puller?
When you drill out the bearing, which it sounds like was done here, you can pop the race out of the swingarm with a blind puller, and use a steering wheel puller on the hub to get the other race off once you remove the wheel. You will never forget to grease the axle again after this.
It usually takes about an hour or an hour and a half to drill out the bearing, get the races off and get a new bearing pressed in. But if you spray lubricant or penetrating oil on it for two or three days, you can speed up the process to two or three days and an hour or an hour and a half.
You use a pick to remove the seal, then start drilling between the ball bearings with progressively bigger bits until you make a space big enough for the ball bearings to fall out. It helps if you drill in a couple of spots, instead of concentrating on one. You need to break up the ball bearings and enlarge the space between the races so you can get some of the ball bearings out. Get the big box of golden bits from harbor freight and if you break one, get another one.
There is a way to use the tool after you've broken it that usually works, but it's really quicker to just destroy the bearing and move on.
⚠️ Last edited by Motovista on UTC; edited 2 times
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UTC quote
conchscooter wrote:
From that lesson I have stuck with the 150 Vespa design....
They get the rear wheel stuck on sometimes. We got a flood bike in once and we never did get the rear wheel off, and I've seen several that took major force to get the rear wheel to break free from the axle.
Clutch bells also seize to the shaft sometimes.
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UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
Nobody's ever heard of a blind bearing puller?
While there is always the right tool for the job I find it difficult to assist or suggest on MV because one never knows the level of ability or equipment of the person in need of assistance.

I suppose one should assume the worst as anyone with the ability or a shop full of tools would have sorted it alone.

If the cost of the heat gun/bearing puller/dremel/et al is equal to or more than the part itself then the sensible thing to do is buy new parts. That being said if one has to include labour then the tools might be "a horse a piece" as they say in Montana. I have in the past paid the same to do it myself as to have a dealer do it but ended up with a bunch of tools that I didn't have before.

So I attempt to assist or point people in the right direction by using what an average Joe might have at hand.
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UTC quote
waspmike wrote:
Stromrider wrote:
DO NOT put the swingarm in the oven.
Why not? It is quite small and everyone has an oven. It has been done for decades with all sorts of engine parts.
Not every one has a heat gun. Yes heat gun will only heat the surrounding area if you don't aim it at the race. But aluminum transfers heat very quickly so ...
Stromrider wrote:
You are going to be hitting the internal bearing race with a bearing drift (socket will do) and you do not want to distort the swingarm.
As I see the problem at present only the outer race is stuck in the swing-arm piece and it is "hidden" behind the inside flange on the arm. So there is nothing visible to hit. Need attention with a dremel. If one is not available then...

Last resort is to buy a new arm but every cloud has a silver lining?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
waspmike, indeed! I think I was rather tired when writing my post about removal of the race, So thanks for pointing that out. it was something like 2pm in the morning and I had been tussling with the automatic gearbox of a near new VW which was causing me some grief. Amazing how you misread stuff and forget what you are focusing on at that time of the morning. Of course if it's only the outer race there is nothing to hit. Although my comment about using a heat gun stands good. If you put the swingarm in the oven it heats everything including the bearing outer race up all at the same time and temperature so you gain almost nothing as the steel will expand only slightly less slowly than the alloy and if it's already distorted there's probably not going to be much gain if anything. So in the trade we don't do that once someones job has moved to the stage the OP is at. The idea of the heat gun is that it heats up the arm around the race in a very controlled and above all, fast way. It causes the alloy swingarm to expand much more and more quickly than the bearing race and is key to removing stuff like that. You have much better control of the heat and expansion rate with a gun than in an oven. But you must work fast. Thanks mate!
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UTC quote
waspmike wrote:
Motovista wrote:
Nobody's ever heard of a blind bearing puller?
While there is always the right tool for the job I find it difficult to assist or suggest on MV because one never knows the level of ability or equipment of the person in need of assistance.

I suppose one should assume the worst as anyone with the ability or a shop full of tools would have sorted it alone.

If the cost of the heat gun/bearing puller/dremel/et al is equal to or more than the part itself then the sensible thing to do is buy new parts. That being said if one has to include labour then the tools might be "a horse a piece" as they say in Montana. I have in the past paid the same to do it myself as to have a dealer do it but ended up with a bunch of tools that I didn't have before.

So I attempt to assist or point people in the right direction by using what an average Joe might have at hand.
And very good you are waspmike!
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UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
Nobody's ever hear d of a blind bearing puller?
When you drill out the bearing, which it sounds like was done here, you can pop the race out of the swingarm with a blind puller, and use a steering wheel puller on the hub to get the other race off once you remove the wheel. You will never forget to grease the axle again after this.
It usually takes about an hour or an hour and a half to drill out the bearing, get the races off and get a new bearing pressed in. But if you spray lubricant or penetrating oil on it for two or three days, you can speed up the process to two or three days and an hour or an hour and a half.
You use a pick to remove the seal, then start drilling between the ball bearings with progressively bigger bits until you make a space big enough for the ball bearings to fall out. It helps if you drill in a couple of spots, instead of concentrating on one. You need to break up the ball bearings and enlarge the space between the races so you can get some of the ball bearings out. Get the big box of golden bits from harbor freight and if you break one, get another one.
There is a way to use the tool after you've broken it that usually works, but it's really quicker to just destroy the bearing and move on.
Yeah, got blind bearing pullers, mainly for cars but some small enough for bikes. Usually don't need pullers as a heat gun is better even on cars. Often won't work on just the race. Worth a go if someone can loan him one but I suspect it's past that now with too much distortion holding it in place.
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UTC quote
I pushed my bearing out using a bench vise and two appropriately sized sockets (had some large ones lying around that inherited from my father).

It was intact so I don't know whether the method would work with just the outer left due to the retaining lip

It took some pressure to shift it.......
OP
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UTC quote
Update on stuck swing arm - May 23, 2018 @ 10:00pm EST

The inner race is finally out! I used a proper heat gun (thanks, Stromrider) to heat up the area around the bearing housing. Then, I was able to punch the inner race out with a brass punch and a heavy hammer (thanks again, Stromrider). The inside of the housing was pretty nicked up due to my initial attempt to use a screwdriver to remove the race. I cleaned it up with fine sandpaper. Then, more heat and a bearing press, and I was able to seat the new bearing. The bike goes back together this weekend. Hopefully all will be fine... Just in case, I ordered another suspension swingarm (with pre-installed bearing). I will use grease and/or anti-seize on the inner bearing and shaft when re-assembling! Hopefully this concludes my saga. Thanks to all.
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UTC quote
If it were me, I would use the new parts that were ordered and forget about using the old possibly damaged parts. Just a thought.
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UTC quote
Lebo wrote:
If it were me, I would use the new parts that were ordered and forget about using the old possibly damaged parts. Just a thought.
Yeah, I thought about that, but I'm really itching to ride as it's been over a month. The new parts are taking forever to get here - I ordered them online at piaggio-parts.com (in the UK); they have not answered multiple requests for a status update.

As a novice, I'm not sure what could go wrong or be damaged. The bearing is brand new, so the only piece that could be damaged is the rear suspension swingarm. It's been heated and re-heated multiple times. I not a metallurgist, but it can't be ideal to heat up metal and let it cool and then heat it up again, etc.

So, how would I know if the suspension swingarm is "damaged"? If there is no way to evaluate the damage, what would happen if the swingarm is damaged and I rode on it? What's the worst possible outcome? I have no idea.
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UTC quote
theschuman wrote:
Lebo wrote:
If it were me, I would use the new parts that were ordered and forget about using the old possibly damaged parts. Just a thought.
Yeah, I thought about that, but I'm really itching to ride as it's been over a month. The new parts are taking forever to get here - I ordered them online at piaggio-parts.com (in the UK); they have not answered multiple requests for a status update.

As a novice, I'm not sure what could go wrong or be damaged. The bearing is brand new, so the only piece that could be damaged is the rear suspension swingarm. It's been heated and re-heated multiple times. I not a metallurgist, but it can't be ideal to heat up metal and let it cool and then heat it up again, etc.

So, how would I know if the suspension swingarm is "damaged"? If there is no way to evaluate the damage, what would happen if the swingarm is damaged and I rode on it? What's the worst possible outcome? I have no idea.
Fantastic news! Well done.

I don't think you need worry about damage to the swingarm. The only possible thing could be some minor distortion if you haven't been careful to support the arm in the right place when hitting it with the hammer. But it's quite strong so probably not an issue. Heating it up and letting it cool down again will not in anyway hurt it. It actually gets really hot each time you ride your bike. That's what it's designed to do. So don't worry. If the arm looks ok and doesn't appear distorted or twisted you are most likely good to go. If you notice it's difficult to fit and get the exhaust bolts to line up it may have been distorted, but again unlikely. Let6 us all know the final outcome if you will. We will likely all be coming to you for advice about how to get the swingarm off now! lol
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UTC quote
Update on stuck swing arm - May 24, 2018 @ 11:00pm EST

This is likely my last post to this thread and final update on this issue. Of course, I have one last question! Everything is back together and working, except the ABS, which I expected not to work due to the battered ABS rear tone wheel. Another rear tone wheel is on order, and when it comes in, I'll have the opportunity to see if the anti-seize and bearing grease allow the suspension swing arm to come off more easily. Thanks again to the MV forum community for their amazing assistance and patience with my cluelessness. You've got to start somewhere.


My last question is about the exhaust muffler/silencer flange gasket busing... Do I need to replace it? I have a new one, but I can't figure out if it needs replacing or not... I also have a nifty tool called an exhaust (muffler) expander. I can't figure out if I need either. The exhaust is back on, and the clamp secured... Am I missing something?
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UTC quote
theschuman wrote:
Am I missing something?
Nope.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Don't overtighten the clamp or your manifold will soon break. It needs a surprisingly low torque. 12 to 13 Nm.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
OP
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Update 7/22/18 @ 9:30pm EST - I removed the suspension swingarm again today, as I am finally getting around to replacing the damaged rear tonearm. It slid off without any issues at all. When I previously re-assembled, I used lots of grease (Maxima AND anti-seize) ... I'm happy it worked.
⬆️    About 4 years elapsed    ⬇️
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UTC quote
Well guys, i know im replying a 4 years old thread but i resolve this issue and im sure some people will have this issue aswell in the future so i will give my 5 cents here.

Model: Vespa 2016 GTS Super 300 (GTS300ie)

Work to do: Change rear tyre for second time in the scooter life.

Description of the problem: After removing Exhaust, ABS sensor and cable, putting aside the shock absorber and unscrew the screws of swing arm i found it stuck hardly.

Metodology to resolve the problem: I look at internet and found this excelent forum and this particular thread and try some advice here without success.

How i resolve the problem:

1) I build my own special puller tool based in this one:

https://www.scooterwest.com/gt-gts-swing-arm-shock-mount-puller-toolsap.html


Materials i use: Iron BAR, Driller, Drill bit various sizes, metal washers, one bolt (0.4" diameter i think) with his nut.

Procedure to remove swing arm:

1) Lubricate shaft using WD-40 (is the best i can found near my home) and some SQ 5 in 1 Multipurpose Lubricant Oil.

There is no need to say the stuck is just between shaft and bearing. So lubricate BOTH sides, not only front.

2) I put the puller in position and begin to turn the screw clockwise direction holding the nut with a wrench cause i dont weld it to the puller, until the special iron puller begin to bend (even steel will bend if swing arm is really stucked)

3) With that hard tension already between shaft and swing arm i begin the magic trick.

"Vibration"


Yes. Vibration do the trick. Of course some combination of Lubrication (since 1 day before when i try for the first time), high tension and vibration help me to remove finally the f... piece xD.

I think some heat gun can help to lubrication phase and even when you begin the vibration process.

So, how i apply vibration to the piece?

4) Well I used a normal hammer to continually tap the screw that presses the shaft, not too hard cause you can damage some mecanism at the other side of the shaft (where is located the transmision stuff). At the same time i begin to lubricate the front and back shaft / bearing area and surprise i heard a click telling me shaft finally separate from bearing.

Conclusions:

1) After remove swing arm i found the most precious liquid in earth between bearing and shaft. WATER. So the mainly cause of this stuck is water, maybe some friction wear and weather changes.

2) Vibration works using the same principle like a bolt losing his nuts if are not secured by pressure washer or used some loctite glue, etc.


Finally i able to continue dismounting wheel as directed by Manual.

I expect this help someone in the future without need to destroy the bearing or the swing arm.

Cheers,

Lester H.
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UTC quote
Hello Lester, welcome to MV and thank you for posting your methodology for removing a stuck swingarm on your GTS. I hope it will be beneficial for anyone in the future searching for a solution to this common problem.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
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2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 57,000km
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UTC quote
quick question ...

when reinserting the bearing into the swingarm should I use wd40, antiseize or grease?


to be doubling clearing I am not talking about on the axel when sticking the swingarm back on the bike
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UTC quote
Neither. You should be starting a new thread with your own problems. This is an Necro thread. Have you been around here long?
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UTC quote
steelbytes wrote:
quick question ...

when reinserting the bearing into the swingarm should I use wd40, antiseize or grease?


to be doubling clearing I am not talking about on the axel when sticking the swingarm back on the bike
I install them dry, but a small wipe of grease or squirt of something slippery isn't going to hurt anything.

freeze the bearing and heat the arm and the bearing should all but drop in. if you need to drive it home do so ONLY on the outer race otherwise you'll junk it.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 57,000km
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5188
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@steelbytes avatar
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 57,000km
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5188
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
UTC quote
greasy125 wrote:
I install them dry, but a small wipe of grease or squirt of something slippery isn't going to hurt anything.

freeze the bearing and heat the arm and the bearing should all but drop in. if you need to drive it home do so ONLY on the outer race otherwise you'll junk it.
Thanks all done. Wd40, frooze bearings in normal freezer, sat the swingarm in the Sun for a few hours (it's a stinking hot day) and a bit of encouragement with a large socket bought especially for the purpose (will never need this size for anything else)

Getting the old one out yesterday was harder. Sun, wd40, socket, perseverance. it had some rust spots on the casing and the colour of the wd40 that dribbled out the other side when I was soaking it was a horrible brown.
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