Modern Vespa

NOTE: this thread started out with my request for purchasing (and pricing) advice on a GTV I was interested in buying but I am hoping to get advice as well on a different possible Vespa that has come my way - a local GT200. The first posts and replies all deal with the GTV but if you scroll down to the newer postings you'll see the info on the GT200 Granturismo which I'm also considering. THANKS!)

Am hoping some of the more experienced Vesparians can give me some buying and pricing advice on a GTV I'm interested in. I live in the Pacific Northwest. It's a 2013 GTV with relatively low miles (under 2K) and a bunch of extras (including a windshield, fender guards, a kick stand and one of those large-ish wicker rear baskets). The owner has taken good care of it but is selling because of health issues. The asking price is $4.5K

And, I know supposedly most of the modern 300's have identical engines. With cosmetic differences. And that the GTV tends to be on the pricier end of the spectrum. Cause of that fender-mounted headlight (among other things) and the largeish analog style speedo (a plus for me). So given all that - and given the relative scarcity of GTV's in good used condition ---

Is this a fair price? A good price for the buyer (me)? I know the terms 'fair' and 'good' are totally subjective and relative, too --- but I would still appreciate input and advice from the V.P.'s (Vespa Cognoscenti) out there.

Whattayathink?

$4000 would be a fair price.

Although alot of times IF the bike is super clean and the parts can be sold for the cash difference in what I consider fair vs the seller... I would come up.

I own a 2013 GTS300. Great scooter.

I bought mine used and had to change the radiator fluid, engine oil, belt and rollers. Since owning it the clock battery has died and the center stand needed to be removed and serviced - both due to the age of the scooter. So expect to do some maintenance yourself or pay a Vespa dealer to do it.

$3500-$4000 would be a fair price if it is in mint condition, considering the $500 +or- that you will have to spend to get it running safely.

The tires on my GTS have been fine, but tires do deteriorate over time (even if not used) so that's another cost to consider.

Radiator fluid and a new belt would be essential first buys.

Sorry, just noticed you said GTV. A GTV is probably worth a few dollars more, as they usually cost more new. But you would still have to consider the same expenses replacing fluids etc.

I'd go $3500 to $4000 for that GTV (probably on the lower end). I'd also want to know if the first service was done at the regular 600 to 700 mile mark. I'm a little uptight about maintenance, though. I might be willing to pay more for a well-maintained bike.

This isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, but I purchased my 2015 GTS 300 in Connecticut in August 2016. It had just over 400 miles (yes, four hundred miles). I paid $4000 from a dealer! I think the motorcycle dealer was a little clueless about scooters and perhaps thought it was a 150cc Vespa. I don't expect another deal like that in my lifetime.

Sounds high, to me, too. For example, a brand new 2017 GTV300-ABS can be had for $6K without the (not very much value added) accessories the seller lists, way south from you.

Fender guards, wicker basket, and kick stand do not add much value. In regards to windshield, is it OEM? Size? If tall windshield, has it been cut down?

Tires, are they original since it only has 2K on the clock? Service records?

Not asking for the answers, but, things to take into consideration, OK?

Best,

I bought a 2014 GTV with 8K... three windscreens.... the leather seat and a gel sport seat. LED running lights and just serviced. I bought her in 2016 for $4,200.

So there is wiggle room on the price. Figure out what you want to pay and make an offer. If the seller says no, just leave him with your contact info and tell him the price is good til you find another scoot.

Try leaving the dealership with that bike for 6K.

Why? the bike has less than 2K miles on it.
On the other hand, why am I telling people they don't need to replace perfectly good parts? I should be posting a laundry list of everything you could possibly replace every time this comes up.
The one thing that never gets mentioned that often really does need to be replaced is the Air Cleaner. The Piaggio air cleaners decompose and it's not uncommon to find less than half of one still in the air cleaner box when you do finally get around to opening it. Guess where the rest of it went.

My recent experience ...

I bought a (I'm third owner) 2013 GTS Super 5 months ago for about $3500. Less than 2000 miles. The bike looked fantastic, but I didn't know if it had the 600 mile service (would this effect long term reliability). I just changed the coolant myself and it had a lot of rust (should have been changed in 2015 & 2017). There may be problems for me down the road (hopefully not).

At this point, I'm happy I bought used. Time will tell. I would offer much less than $4.5. Looks can be deceiving.

Do you like it? Are you ready to pull the trigger for one? Then don't let a couple Benjamins stop you.

Low mileage GTV's don't come around every day.

I'm a vintage guy, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about....

The GTV is not a super common model, and is a "top of the line" model. If it's in super nice condition, in the color you are happy with, with accessories you either like or can sell, then it sounds like it's priced pretty close to what is to be expected. The fact that it's in your area, and not at a dealer, makes it even better.

If you pass on it, or don't come to an agreement on price, then how long will it take for you to find another at a similar price? If you bite on this one, then you're scooting, not searching. And sometimes a couple hundred bucks is worth it to be riding next week.

One last thing... I didn't tell you this... shhhhhh... but if he can write the bill of sale for say $2k, you can pay a lot less in sales tax when you go to the DMV!

I couldn't have said it better.

Bill

ANY scooter...even hondas should be peeped at before you hand over any cash! Worth the 5 minutes to inspect!

Um thats not an apples to apples comparo. Your scooter was being ridden with 8,000 miles and its late model age.

Your ideal seller would be a mid 50s gentleman or lady that was absolutely terrified by 15hp and 12" wheels. The scooter is in such primo condition that a test ride is not even necessary.

Good advice.
I think the price should be $4K or closer to it.
I bought my GTS from a dealer with barely 2K on it. He had sold it to a 71 yoa lady who traded it back to him for a lighter scooter. She was afraid of the weight!

Great comments so far and much appreciated, the multiple viewpoints. Which more or less reinforce my own feelings. Namely that ---

$4500 may be a tad high. $4K may be closer to semi-real market value.

But conversely given the shortage of nice used GTV's with low miles for any price anywhere these days (sigh) maybe it ain't that out of line after all.

ONE MORE (RELATED) QUESTION FOR EVERYONE ---

I did in fact find one other used GTV - further away - with significantly more miles on it - for a LOWER price. It's older - a 2007 vs a 2013 - has more miles - 14K vs slightly under 2K - and an asking price of approx $2750. It's also the older 250cc (which if I'm not mistaken WAS fuel injection) vs the newer 300 cc.

Any thoughts vis-a-vis both the relative values - and the relative pricing - of the older (2007) versus the newer (2013) GTV????

I only have old GTs.

2005, 2006 and 2007.

Mileage 27,000, 87,000 and 14,000

They can all give you trouble occasionally, but if maintained well, that is minimal.

In looking at friend's scooters, I have seen that the later 300s appear to be more reliable than the earlier 250s.

Several friends have had trouble with the 250. This includes the infamous fuel pump, but they have also had electrical problems with several needing to replace the wiring harness. They all eventually run into a problem of the HT lead being too short, separating from the spark plug cap or pulling the cap off.

Less of this with the 300, but nothing is foolproof.

I would get the newer one.

Bill

the one thing I hate about "high mileage" vehicles is trying to play "what needs attention next". Buy the low mile one for $4,000. You will get $1250 worth of enjoyment IF its in the stated condition.

If youre going to change a bunch of things... then yeah a high mile cheaper priced scooter would be a better deal.

I bought a 2011 GTV with 900 miles on the OD in late 2014 for $3800.00
It was 800 miles away. I flew to the owners city and rode it back to Cincinnati. Considering the the newer model of the one you found, and the location - I don't think the price is all that out of line. As always, money talks. The owner may be willing to negotiate, you never know.

A lot of good thoughts here so I won't try to add to them.

The one thing that always gets me is how many people buy scooters or even large motorcycles and never put any miles on them. Must be those people have more disposable income than I do!

To be honest I was a bit worried when my wife who had never had her motorcycle licence decided in the fall of 2013 she just had to have that Espresso Brown GTV.

Well now it's spring of 2018 and despite living in an area where we can go for six months a year with very few days warm enough to comfortably ride that GTV has a bit over 21,000 miles on it!

One bonus of putting that many miles on it is when it comes time to replace rear tire the swingarm has not had time to get stuck! When I changed the coolant it looked like fresh coolant out of the bottle, same for the brake fluid when I changed that this winter.

The GTV I'm interested in is some distance away. In the interim, another very cool large-frame Vespa has come onto my radar: a 2007 GT200 (Granturismo) which belongs to a close friend and neighbor, who's considering selling it. It only has approx 1200 miles on it and has been impeccably maintained, if one didn't know better one would say it seems new. It's in the classic plum color (which some love and others not so much, but which I quite like) - and has the Vespa flyscreen. I test rode it today and was quite blown away by its smoothness, power, maneuverability, and general coolness. My only question is the price - which would probably be around $3,500 --

I did a quick search, both of previous GT200/Granturismo sales here on MV, and also craigslist listings, and most of them were a) priced lower, but b) have or had significantly higher miles and usage on them - as opposed to this one which, and I know I'm repeating myself here, literally seems almost new.

Any thoughts and opinions on this scooter at this price? Would it be crazy to spend this much on a ten year old GT200? Or is it a bargain? Or is there a more rational middle-ground, price-wise?

Thanks in advance for any and all opinions and advice.

Granturismos are becoming fairly rare. I've had mine for a little over 2 years. Sure is a great scooter. I paid a little over $1,800 for it with 4,000 miles. I've seen some nice GTS300s go for $3,500. I personally wouldn't pay $3,500 for a 2007 GT200.

Miguel, I loved the GT200s that I have owned. Very reliable, very quick. I think they are just as quick as the 250s, but the 300s are quicker. Having said that, I would probably go with the GT every time. I is truly a great scooter! Good luck!

Best advice I was given when I was purchasing my first motorcycle/scooter:

Sit on it, test ride it.

Whatever "feels" more comfortable is the one you should go with.

Trust your butt on this choice

I couldn't agree with this more.

I'll say one thing Abner - your GT200 is exceptionally beautiful! Thanks for the advice, Tim! Excellent advice, Sacto Monkeyboy - and I quite agree with it. In point of fact, I have done just that with the GT200 I am looking at - and it probably is THE most comfortable scooter I've ever sat on, and/or ridden. Thanks, Jet Peddler. It is damn good advice.

OVERALL, EXCELLENT ADVICE & SUGGESTIONS - my thanks to all.
Just one dilemma that I'm still on the metaphorical horns of, however.
I get Granturismo Tim's comment - about not paying this much for an older (2007) GT200. But - conversely - given the astoundingly low miles of this one, and its pristine condition (and previous care from a serious scooterista owner), it doesn't seem (or ride) like a used scooter - but, literally, like a new one. For me at least, that factors in...a lot. Which brings me back to the original question: how to find a fair dollar value for both seller and potential buyer (me).

A different way to pose the question: if this nearly-new Granturismo was worth $3.5K around three years ago (which I believe) - and if it's still virtually in the same pristine condition, should its 2018 price be the same, or lower?

Depends on which one YOU like. IMHO the 200's are as fast as the 300's and as long as you do the maintenance their the best scooter out there.

I think it should definitely be lower 3 years later.

"Rare" may add a bit to the value, but don't confuse rare with "collectible". It's going to be ridden not showed and it will continue to drop in value like most machines.

And in the end, it's just one model of Vespa. To most of the public, it's not different enough from all the other Vespas available for sale for it's 'rarity' to add value. If Vespas weren't being made any more, and were hard to find, then, yes, it'd be worth more but still only to someone who 'had to have that model'.

We always have to be careful and remind ourselves to not confuse seller's advertised asking prices with prices that they are 'going for'.

Excellent advice, Sacto Monkeyboy - and I quite agree with it. In point of fact, I have done just that with the GT200 I am looking at - and it probably is THE most comfortable scooter I've ever sat on, and/or ridden. Thanks, Jet Peddler. It is damn good advice.


Sounds like you answered your own question my friend. GT200!

Choosing a GT is a wise decision.

They are fast, comfortable, stylish and so smooth.

Their simplicity, no electronics, abs, traction control, efi, etc makes them quite simple.

They will give you little issues over time, but are so easy to repair.

There have been times I thought each of mine were on the verge of the junkyard, but were repaired and now nearly prtfect mechanically.

I am currently in Seattle about to start a 6000 mile journey on one of them tomorrow. The middle 10 days will be the Scooter Cannonball Run. I couldn't think of another scooter model I would rather be riding.

Bill

A four year old bike with 3 owners and less than 2K miles. Only in America.

I am no stranger to the Granturismo, but Piaggio has been discontinuing parts that are GT200 exclusive. As of 2018, Piaggio is still using the engine, so you should be able to get engine parts for the next 8,000 years, but some of the plastics, especially for the GT200, have been discontinued. So it's going to be harder and more expensive to fix minor scrapes and dings. The GT200L shares slightly more plastics with the GTS than the GT200, so it will be possible to replace more parts longer and keep it looking nice. The OEM belt costs more than the belt for the GTS and the speedometer cable didn't get improved like the one on the GTS did a few years ago. It's also pretty expensive for a speedometer cable.
The 250 and 300 GTS share most parts, and the only parts for the GTS 250 that are getting hard to find are the ones that are exclusive to that model, because at some point Piaggio discontinues making them.
So you are going to pay more to keep the GT200 together.

Hmmmm....food for thought. If you pardon my ignorance - what exactly is or are the difference or differences between the GT200 and the GT200L? I assume it's more than mere cosmetics - but I've done a few forum searches here and a number of people have claimed that there were no actual differences. Could you elaborate? And - how does one tell which model it is? Are there different little nameplates or visual cues?

Thanks for weighing in, Bill, your comments are helpful. I'm strongly leaning towards taking the plunge - if for no other reason than when I test drove it, it was not only the most comfortable scooter I've ever ridden (and I've ridden a few), but the motor was running so smoothly it was almost purring, which worried me a little, wondering whether the pussycat had enough tiger in the metaphorical tank to growl when one opens up the throttle...? But (long story short) this one did - or rather, does.

And, ultimately, I can pretend to be as objective as the next armchair philosopher, but when all's said and done, this is a subjective decision...and some scooters just feel 'right'...you know?

If the starter and horn button are round, it's a GT. If they're rectangular, it's a GTL. The wiring harnesses are different.
That's one of the other problems you run into, is that after a while there is only one part number for something that used to be available in both versions. You can still get the rear headset plastics for the round buttons in some colors in Italy, but they don't fit with the front half of the headset plastics, which are designed for the rectangular buttons, and are the same as the ones on the GTS, and the little tiny screw holes don't line up. Even if you order the correct part number, you are going to get the wrong front headset. I've got two of them. One came out of the Piaggio USA warehouse, and the last one I ordered came straight out of the warehouse in Pontedera. This is a part that commonly breaks, usually on the little tabs where the covers for the master cylinders attach. And you would have to rewire the bike to take the rectangular buttons if you want the front and back of your headset to line up. They don't have the same plug in. In the US, there was a glut of NOS, or New Old Stock (which is how brand new parts that have been sitting on a shelf for years, for old models are described) plastics for a while, because they lost 85% of their dealer network over a 6 year period and got a lot of parts back, but Piaggio USA had a fire sale and now the prices on most of them are right back up there. If you think about it, there was no reason to continue making the GT after they came out with the GTS, but Piaggio had a lot of bodies on hand, so they kept it going until they were gone. More than likely, Piaggio decided they could save money if they used GTS headsets to build out the remaining GT200 bodies, and that's why they came up with the GTL.

The GT and the GTV are both fairly rare on the market, which means a limited number to choose from or consider in either case. Why not include GTS250s and 300s in your search. A clean, low mileage 250 in good condition would be a fine choice IMO.

I've have had both. The GTV 300 is faster and more powerful than the GT200L. The stock seat on the GTV will absolutely kill your butt tho. That price is def in the highest range.

GT200L