Modern Vespa

Anyone know a solid starting value BTDC for a flytech system? Rally cases don't have a cast mark like P's so I cant work backwards to measure a number. Instructions are shit and I have to do some dremeling to one mounting screw slot.

You only had to dremel one screw? You're lucky. I had to dremel all three on mine

To figure initial timing, what you'll need to do is find TDC, then back off 24 degrees to get 17 BTDC at WOT, then, check it with a timing light and fine-tune from there.

The thing to remember is that once you have TDC, you just make a pair of matching marks on the case and flywheel and it's all relative from there. Even more so if you have an adjustable timing light.

Marks on the cases are totally overrated.

I had my pickup at about 10 o' clock on LML motors, so that should get you close enough to strobe it, assuming the woodruff key slot is located the same on a rally crank.

I've attached a random shot I found showing the flytech on a motor so you can see the approximate positioning.

Good luck!

Killer. I'll try 24* BTDC or do whatever it takes to get 17* WOT.

Yep. Just one of the three was too thick.

Went to install the kit at a friends where my rally is stored and forgot my extractor tool, spade terminals and 12V bulbs. Installed it anyways minus lights and first look with the timing strobe I'm probably at 23* BTDC. I'll come back tomorrow and set it right.

Anyone know if their flywheel has a gap between it and the cases? The flywheel is on and torqued.

I'm definitely not impressed with Pinasco as a company. Their instructions suck, stator plate machining sucks, CDI came with an extra nub that didn't fit the bracket so I had to cut that, there's not enough screws to mount the CDI, no spade terminals to wire the stator to the harness or regulator to harness, no flywheel holding tool or mention that one is needed so I don't wreck the fins. Positive though is it works, less wires and tons of power out at idle. And FYI S.I.P's website shows the wrong photo for this kit.

I have one on my smallie and it's noisy. Works though

Do you have a gap? There was no fan cover issues with how it is currently but it just seems odd.

Here's a pic of mine on a p200 motor. I have a 5mm gap between the shelf above the engine bolt and the fan.

I didn't notice a gap when I installed the flywheel, and I've had it off a dozen times. The fan cover fits.
Next time I check the timing I'll look at it.

A friend who fitted a Vespatronic to her Rally 200 found it did that as well. She had to space the cover out to get it to fit nicely. So maybe something to do wth the original Rally crank which has not been allowed for?

Btw: Pinasco couldn't afford all that stuff because they spent all their money on marketing... also, if you don't speak Italian, who cares?

You do see more posts asking for info on the Flytech than any other variable ignition system, which I find telling. Very frustrating!

I originally bought it because it was the only variable-timing ignition I could get with an electric starter ring, but it was a total PITA to get installed for all the reasons listed above.

And I've found the quality over time was not all that great, either.

I replaced it with the new SIP Sport ignition, which was a piece of cake to install. No machining slots, good instructions, nice full-color wiring diagrams.

I'll never go back.

I like the look of that SIP ignition. $270 is a lot of money to pay to swap out a nearly new flytech. But I agree the quality of the flytech is questionable.

The whole reason I purchased this is because it's a bolt on replacement for Femsatronic systems. Mine have been bullet proof, but I like the idea of having a backup option with anything electric. Nothing else matches the 74 Femsa crank or else id probably go for the SIP one. It's $90 cheaper than what I paid for the flytech.

Reached out to Mark at Scooter Speed and he said the gap is typical. Haven't ridden it anymore. Trucks acting up so I'm taking care of that first.

Finally got everything timed, torqued and soldered. Everything is working as expected. The biggest benefit would probably be the acceleration from the lightened flywheel. One downside for me personally is I was hoping this system would have enough power to keep the lights from dimming in a batteryless conversion. Oh well!

Hey guys. Just wanted to say that I just holed my piston on this bike. I'll rebuild and try to find out how much the CDI advances the timing and then see if i can come up with a good number so this wont happen again.

Sorry to hear. Timing has to be a long way out to actually hole a piston. More likely to be jetting.

Jack- strangest thing when it happened. I was doing about 45 on a mellow country road enjoying the scenery when it happened. Typical running great, then pop and the engine died.

Flyside seal looks ok and shows no oil leaking outside to the cases. Didn't have any hanging revs/air leak indications all ride. It's a stock cylinder, 24 carb, air filter drilled, 122 main jet, sip road 2.0 and the flytech.

Bummer MJ! Hopefully you can find out why, why, why, this happened....

Yea head scratcher. Unfortunately I can only rebuild and retest at this stage.

In that case it has the wrong atomiser/air corrector. What is the mechanical set up? And all the jets sizes?

Ouch, that super-sucks.

Assuming it's not malfunctioning, which in my experience might be a big assumption, the FlyTech advances the timing seven degrees at 8,000 RPM's, then stops there. It also goes -1 degree at idle for easier starting.

So you were doing either about 5,800 RPM's in 3rd or 4,400 RPM's in 4th gear at the time, so assuming timing was set to 18 BTDC at 8,000, you were looking at 22 or 23 BTDC when you holed it.

I have put a pretty good dent in a piston with similar static timing, but that was with moderately long WOT runs and trying to jet around the problem before I ultimately seized it to death because I didn't know what the hell I was doing at the time.

Either way, you need to know your max RPM's along with exact RPM's when checking timing to dial it in correctly, which means you need to be running a tach. This is also where you probably want to invest a variable timing light, which allows you to use a single timing mark, plus the good ones include a tach as well.

There's a relatively cryptic graph of the advance in the typical Pinasco-quality (i.e. cryptic) installation instructions. I couldn't find it online with a quick google search, but I pulled it out of my pile of Vespa papers in the garage if you want me to scan & share it.

Of course, that 1/4 to 1/2 throttle range is the one that we tend to set up a little on the lean side because you usually are racing through it and, at least to me, it feels like I get a snappier jump into the power curve, but I notice it when

(By way of comparison, the Vape (SIP Variable Timing Ignition) continues to advance linearly 1 degree per thousand RPM's to pretty much as high as you can rev it.)

I have no idea what electronics exist inside a Pinasco CDI - but with a Ducati CDI I had - I have seen with a timing light the spark jump around at least 20 degrees either side of the timing mark! So it is possible that timing did cause the issue.
Also I should say that it ran perfectly below 4000 rpm, and sometimes above as well.

It's been my experience that this is a pretty common failure mode for Ducati CDI's. They start to stutter and the timing jumps at lower and lower RPM's. I've had multiple Flytech CDI's fail in a similar manner.

It seems like the motor just won't rev past a certain point, like it has a dirty main jet, when it reality, it's the CDI. And from what I've been able to find, the only source for that CDI by itself is https://www.emporiodelloscooter.com, who charge an arm and a leg, plus ridiculous shipping costs to replace it.

That's what gives me some confidence in the Vape kit, that all the bits are available from the start as individual spares.

Thanks for the reply guys. Cylinder and crank are off getting machined and cleaned. Rest of it is sitting at my house while I'm away at work. I should be back around New Years. Rebuilding and then strobing the Flytech is first on my to-do list. Sorry to keep you guys hanging but I'll keep you posted.