Modern Vespa

I can get them. I have used them. I could get them again. And I decided that's not the life I want to live if I can possibly avoid it.

The side effects ruin my quality of life as much or more as does the pain. I wouldn't be capable of riding my GTV safely or flying my small plane legally if taking opioids. Opioids make me feel sick all the time. They make me constipated. Food doesn't taste good. I have no drive. They cause me insomnia. I can't think straight, even with a very small dose.

I remember being a few days out from my major back surgery, laying on the couch staring at the ceiling, wondering why I still felt like weak total crap. I quit using the oxycodone and, while the pain worsened (but not much), the rest of me, especially my brain, started improving. The fuzz cleared, I started getting up and moving around, trying to gain strength. I felt better overall.

So, I reiterate - and this applies to me, everyone is different: I'd rather be run over by a locomotive than live my life in an opiate stupor, having had to give up all the things that bring me joy.

Also, wearing a small, long-lasting gel ice pack on my lower back (tucked in my waistband) to begin each day does more wonders than ANY pain meds. It's amazing how much relief cold therapy provides - like putting out a fire. When I'm on a bad stretch of pain and immobility, I double-down on the cold therapy, and I always gain improvement.

Weird I thought I replied?

Anyway are you talking about the reusable gel packs? Or something else? I will suggest that to my mother she has tried just about everything else.

Do you have a recommended type/size/etc.

Sorry, I honestly don't know.

However, while an occasional moderate fast of 3-5 days is generally considered safe and perhaps even natural, someone that age would definitely want to check with a physician first.

I use a Cryomax 8-Hour Cold Pack, size medium (12" x 6"). It slips comfortably and fairly discreetly into my waist band. The cold doesn't last 8 hours, but it lasts a good 4 hours. I have 2 of these. I've tried others, but they don't come close to lasting as long as the Cryomax.

I can relate. Sprained my shoulder a couple years back, couldn't raise my arm...managed to keep my life going, but huge problems sleeping due to pain. AFter nearly a month, went to a physiatrist who recommended Tramadol. Took it and spent most of the night awake feeling weird. Less pain, yeah, but decided if i wasn't going to sleep anyway and feel goofy besides, I wasn't going back.

Not all that surprised on the ice. I usually don't consider it all that effective, especially for chronic pain, but some people respond surprisingly well. Makes that awesome on several counts- can't hurt you, costs essentially nothing, and readily available. There's a tendency to diss things sometimes because they're too easy, or not often all that effective...OTOH, there are the lucky ones that do surprisingly well.......

For some things Lidocaine patches work. Think you need a DR to prescribe them tho. The OTC ones don't work as well.

You might also research stem cell injection.
It is another emerging treatment option that is slowly gaining acceptance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmd7-KjE62o[/url]

Advice surgury as apposed to taking highly additive drugs. BTDTHTB

I would rather take the drugs. Yes, you do become "addicted" but you don't get high when you take them for pain. I don't use them to get high like some people do. Sure you become physically addicted but if and when you stop taking them all the DR has to do is wean you off. Because of my RA i'm leery about what surgeries that i'll do.

That info is not totally correct. If you take pain killers long enough they do give you a high, you just sre not aware of it. But you can be easily weaned off of them if you so desire. Been there, trust me!

you absolutely do get high/euphoric... and if you drive can be charged with a DUI or impairment charge.
There is a whole epidemic of folks buying smack because of an perscription opiate created crave. On a personal level Ive seen a couple of very strong will folks get involuntarily addicted to pain meds. They were fortunate in being able to shake the monkey off their back. Some folks arent so lucky.

The weening thing is not a "one size fits all" program. One only has to look at people in NA as evidence of this.

Absolutely. Some people are predisposed to opiate addiction, you don't know if thats you until you try, then it might be too late.

Cheers I'll let her know.

I feel ya man. Seven vertebrae fused with titanium starting at T2 and four bulging discs in my neck. Some days I just want to give up. My 40's haven't gone as planned

I have two "back books" that cover the subject very well and are considered the "back bibles": Back Rx and Mckenzie's book. My "yoga class is a few feet away...
The politicians have decided they can legislate our society away from the opoid crisis and that's wrong minded. If that were possible we could all come up with a laundry list of fixes in need of a magic law.
Not to point fingers on lower back pain but one look around you and you'll see lots of people, some sadly are very young, who are certain to have back problems from simply being over weight.

T no i don't get "high or euphoric". That comment shows why you have the red X's.Your a ass to even suggest that. Are you in the medical field? It allows me to function, otherwise i'd be bedridden. Funny people aren't cautioning people with "addictive personalities" to not take that first drink of alcohol. There are days when my back pain is worse than others. When that happens i don't get on the bike. Meds or no meds if i can't have all my attention on my surrounding i don't ride, period.

Screw it. I wrote this this morning and wasn't going to post. Tossed it in my clipboard app anyway. Anyway that has been here for a while knows Judy is a kind soul and not you know, a drug addict.

So here it is . Are you a MD? Until you walk a mile in someone else's shoes be careful to pass judgement. No, you do not get "high" to the point you cannot operate a vehicle. The "high" I get is not being in pain if only for a little bit. I have a terrible condition so until you spend the first hour pretty much every morning trying not to vomit and wake up because the pain and nausea is so bad... It isn't until the pain medication kicks in that I can get my day started. Am I addicted? yeah probably and I look at it as the price to pay for not being in pain. I have tried other medications and nothing else works for the pain. The other medications I'm on do help but not for the pain. They do fortunately deal with the constant burning and numbness in my extremities and I put in a special bathtub for aqua therapy to help with that part of the condition. The reason opiates to a large effect work is that they make you care less about the pain. I live almost every moment in pain and the emotional drain of that is heavy. I have a business and loved ones I need to interact with and a life to live. I think I have a right to some quality of life and the medication helps.

I understand that the medication is abused and it has caught the eye of Sauron that is the media. The abuse does need to stop but there are those of us that need it. Trying to make those of us that use it pariah really isn't fair. Hot yoga and long walks on the beach or hanging upside down is not going to cure me. They do help and I do try to do what I can.

T i hear you. Seems like pain meds goes in cycles. Back in the 70's -80's living enough pain meds, especially to children. They would give kids tylenol and adults Morphine. Just because kids couldn't verbalize pain meant they didn't get adequate pain meds. 80's to 2000 they got adequate pain meds. Then about 8-10yrs ago people were snagging the leftover pills for recreational use so they get "high". So now they want to stop giving them. Needless to say there are a whole lot of people who need them to function. Never ends.

In KY, we may become the first state to tax opoids. That's the way politicians think, every fix is to pass a new law? They have also discussed a 3 day limit which is equally ludicrous.
Thinking back to wisdom teeth I disliked the pain meds used then and went with some pain and over the counter. next for me came the TMI surgery on my butt and guy gave me a few low dose morphine for a surgery that is right up there in pain level. Some females say the first elimination is worse than child birth. My major pain then was well beyond what he gave me that was effective.
Next came shoulder surgery-full tear and more and months of hard work. The pain was variable and the 100 opoid pills were more than enough, flushed the rest. next came two hip surgeries, new doc and 100 opoid pills of which I used not more than a 1/3 each hip job. I am left to wonder what the politicos think one can do with a 3 day supply? For some of us the pharmacy is a long ways off at a time when were are not so mobile.
Then at the other end you have WV where they have been shipping and prescribing enough opoids pills to allot 400 per capita there.
I've often asked why the Rx people isn't telling somebody there's a bit too much live action? maybe it's all about the money?
My wife and I worked in what was the 2nd minimum security prison in the USA in the late 1970's. I ran group counseling from my Vo-tech job , she was a teacher then principal of academic school. I had "residents" then that were doing the "go to Florida and stand in a dirty doctor line" for bogus Rx prescriptions for pain pills. Fast forward to 40 plus years later and were still seeing this crap from doctors and pharmacists like it something newish.
Hardly so.
I worked with re-hab clients later on ~ 2YK era. I had people who relied on a remote control that numbed their back pain but of course they couldn't even drive them selves to my appointment let alone do anyones job but they had to be evaluated for work.
What a person with permanent lower back pain,etc., will do t=with a 3 days prescription is not funny. Neither is the very idea that taxing opoids will deter someone. Damn! These people will hurt their own mother for a fix and often steal from their own families and were talking a tax? Weird indeed. Rant over...
Riding a scoot does me no favors back pain wise but I do my Yoga and hope for another day. I'm sitting with a "lumbar roll" behind my lower back as I type this-it helps but nothing short of fusion will be my next step.

Same as when you get dental work done and the dentist says you may have some pain and soreness for one or maybe two days. He prescribes whatever opioid and the instructions are take one every 12 hours for any pain. So he prescribes THIRTY pills. That's 15 days worth of pain. So, if you're supposed to feel fine in 2 days, and you have pain say, for 4 days, wouldn't you call or go see the doctor, or would you just suffer in pain for 15 days?

I had sinus surgery done in the doctor's office about a year and a half ago. It's a kind where you stay awake. And there shouldn't be any pain afterward. The only 'anesthesia' is the doctor saying to take either a 1/2 or 1 whole Valium one hour prior to my appointment. (I'm not driving to the appointment, my wife drives me)
So, since I don't usually take pain pills, I choose to take only the 1/2 of a pill. And I'm ZONKED. Mission accomplished.

So, can you guess how many Valium he prescribed me prior to the surgery?
You guessed it- 30!

Now, I'm not getting political, just stating who we can 'thank' for this fiasco, and it's Bill and Hillary Clinton. Remember when she was pledging to completely redo our healthcare system and in the end it didn't happen? Well one of the things that did come out of that is the Patient's Bill of Rights. That notice that has to be posted in every hospital room in the U.S. One of the listed 'rights' is "You have the right to be free of pain." Well, that's bull crap because obviously, it's not always possible for every patient to be completely free of pain. But the doctors have to try like hell and do everything to try to make you pain free because if you sue because you felt pain, they need to show they did try all they could, so now heavy dose pain meds are prescribed.

Yes, you are getting political and that is a violation of the posting rules of this site.

How's that?

Wow I touched on a problem in which doctors over-prescribed for so long now people in need can't get the good opiates needed.

Big Gov't trying to help people shooting dope now. Cut off their supply and make them get street bullshit. And then call the "addicts" lazy and stupid or some other shit.

Thank you all so much for this thread. I do have a real problem here and I thought you would laugh at me and say "get tough".

Scooter people are good people. -Dan

OK, get tough, sounds like you'll need that. Addicts = addicted and the stupid aspect, is optional, and can be applied to people who are addicted or non-addicted?
Not that I recall anyone here calling them stupid, some certainly are and many actively participated at all stages of their dependency. For the record opoids make me feel like crap ( also constipated,yuk) and I flushed them as soon as I could, which ='s not so stupid. Lots of story lines circulating about the person who had a surgery and because their doc gave them a bottle of pills to not suffer post-surgery they are now addicted with the blame left to fall on a doc.
One of my nephews is a surgeon. He told us back after his first few years he couldn't have imagined the number of people who were after him for pain pills that they had no reason for getting, known to him.
Every ortho doc I've seen has explicit pain pill signs posted in their patient rooms. OTOH, drive by a weight loss clinic or pain clinic in an area known for opoid abuse and see the full parking lots and long lines outside the window.
When my wife worked as a community mental health office counselor/therapist her office was in the only local medical clinic operated through a small regional hospital. She had many who having been denied "pills" for some mystery malady who'd come by her office in a weird effort to get "pills". We still have an occasional laugh at this man who came to her years ago saying "it was not in his head but his feet" and he had to have some meds fast".
Pain is so different for one person vs. another. Those who have never been a part of activities that cause much pain might have a different approach to being asked by a doc-"how much on a scale of 1-10?" I've been around some so called "pansies" in my life and they sure didn't like hard physical exercise or get an "A" in PE or hike 25 miles a day for fun.
I'm not trying for stereotypes of abusers just say pain is very conceptual and conditioned by experiences.

I've never like that 1-10 question. To some one who has only had the experience of stubbing a toe on the table or stepping on a Lego just about anything could be rated as a 10.

Many years ago I had a ruptured appendix that really hurt bad but I can't honestly say it was what someone else would rate as a 10 who suffered multiple broken bones or major burns.

Now the first scratch on a new Vespa or motorcycle that would have to rate a 15!

Oh its easy really.

Giving birth is a 6
Telling a woman that giving birth is only 6 results in a magnitude 3 slap
Manflu is 8
Peter gets a solid 10:

Peter is a wimp...

I deal with chronic pain (fibromyalgia, bursitis, plus worn out arms and hands from years of too much work with keyboards, price guns etc) in addition to my neck full of bulging discs, titanium thoracic spine and titanium wrist. I've repeatedly asked my Dr. for some kind of pain meds beyond ibuprofen for those days when the pain is so bad I can't function. Can't even sleep. Since I told my Dr. I smoke marijuana, which is legal here, I've been labelled a drug seeker and am allowed nothing. I hate pain meds but I do need them at times. I guess I'll just suffer instead. It might be better if insurance covered a weekly massage but they don't.

Im not making judgements but you are uninformed if you think opiates do not affect your coordination/judgement.
I dont need to be an MD or Pharmacist to know gobbling pills isn't the methodology I want to treat pain with. Also my post isnt medical advice.
Especially in my 40s and hopefully 50s & beyond.
Same way I dont want to be on blood thinners.

Apparently you know what you need to cure your condition... so have at it.
I simply posted my experience and many others of a more holistic path.

I know my fat father had back problems because of his obesity. He blamed his condition on many things except the spare tire hanging over his waist line.

Surprising but acupuncture helps and they don't cover that either.

Would I be off base saying the reason some things are not covered by insurance maybe that there is no kick back from the suppliers to the insurance company?

Would I be off base saying the reason some things are not covered by insurance maybe that there is no kick back from the suppliers to the insurance company?

K probably not. I get mine done in Chinatown by a guy who has Chinse certification. Definitely much better than learning here. He also does cupping. Amazing when he sticks a needle in my head and i feel a sensation in my foot. 8) I had a French Lop (Boomer) who hurt his back jumping up on my bed. My vet called in a Acupuncturist that did horses and she did my bunny. He looked like a porcupine. He was so relaxed after the session that he looked drunk. So it does work. but at $0 a pop it's sorta pricey.

I got scared off the pain meds, I asked what the long term effects of the pain meds. The answers or should I say the lack of answers I got were they are additive. I said I know that, aside from addiction what other health effects long term will they have. When people are not talking I suspect that it is really bad. I knew I had to get off this stuff for health reasons.

John

This caught my attention. Speaking from experience, I can tell you about addiction. I choose not to take opioids if I can and it is legitimate. Medical marijuana is not safe because you never know exactly how much you're taking. It is not controlled by the FDA. I get by with medications other than opioids because I have an addictive personality. Spasticity and guarding is the way I end up needing pain meds. For that I take muscle relaxants. I hope this is relevant to theOP.

I don't talk about it here and won't . I will just say that I do suffer from a condition that causes severe chronic pain and there is no cure. Medical marijuana and opioids do serve a purpose if used correctly and I disagree that you cannot regulate how much medical marijuana you are taking. I have a prescription and the medical oils are consistent in THC/CBD content and it's very easy to dose using the included syringe.

Opioids.... Well the media is all over that one because it is such a great story. I have had VERY long talks with my pain specialist (MD) about my medications. I have had also had some long back and forth's with Judy when she was with us and a few other people. Opioids are so very misunderstood and yes very abused in the system for a variety of reasons and that is unfortunate. Here is the thing... they work.. yeah.. crazy as that sounds. Unless you suffer from a chronic pain condition that ACTUALLY requires your very real pain be managed you will never get it. I have tried everything and nothing works as well as opioids when It comes to managing very REAL pain. BTW this is after talking to 3 Dr's that deal in pain management. I have also been told by MD's that yes people try to fake it all the time and they have to be very aware of that. What has happened is people like myself (and Judy) have basically been turned in to pariahs because obviously I am an addict and a loser. Whatever... the fact that I can still run a business and not be a complete dick to my wife and others is so worth the trade off. REAL chronic pain sucks so much and I can not put in to words how very hard it is to live with.

At this point of course I'm addicted in that if you take it long enough you can't just stop taking it. If by some miracle another medication came out that was not an opioid that managed my condition I would be thrilled and taper off the opioids. Until then I have a life and can live it not suffering from constant terrible pain.

BTW once the dosage is managed properly you aren't high off the medication, it simply manages the pain. The "addiction" is a negative sure, but the only alternative is being in pain. To a large extent it works because it makes you care less about the pain. So while I suppose maybe that is a kind of "high" it's not like alcohol or marijuana. I do use CBD during the day and I think it helps. Anything with THC I only take about 1 hour before bed. It allows me to sleep through the night and healthier that an opioid I suppose. I can't take it during the day as I do not like being stoned as that does fog my mind. I'm also on other medications such as gabapentin which also works but no one cares about that because it's not apparently "addictive" .

Unless you walk a mile in a mans shoes....

Anyway I'm not going to talk about this again here. We have other people with problems and this isn't really the place.

There have been good points in this thread. I came across it to check on a friend.

What you say makes sense NW. I consider myself lucky. I prefer the man-made kind marijuana. My experience tells me so but it is a personal choice.

And as personal as it seems, I don't have a problem sharing it here to a certain extent. I completely understand your reservations.

The thing I notice being a Brit, is that you Stateside guys and girls get ripped off by the medical services you have over there. Everything is profit orientated and miraculously sooo expensive (nothing wrong with profit, but by most folks standards in europe, not good when it's medical treatment). Now as a Brit I have family living out there and they have been there 30+ years. I've seen them struggle to pay for quite often ridiculous medical bills. They have insurance but the deductables can be a killer. This causes some of the less well off from seeking medical help which encourages their conditions to get really bad before they seek medical help.

My cousin ended up in a wheelchair with a spinal disease that was treatable but expensive. He didn't get the treatment. Over here he would have been treated free at point of delivery and would have been a useful member of society, working and paying taxes.

So getting teatment early, that's the thing. Especially for spinal and joint diseases. There's so much help out there. Good luck to all you folks suffering.

Marcellus summed it up nicely, "Something is rotten in the State of Denmark."
Insulin costs about $5 to make, and sells for about $500. High speed rail in California costs about twenty times more per mile to build than in France. You can get an MRI at one hospital for $1000, and at another hospital a quarter mile away, it's $4000, but you don't know that, because nobody posts their prices.

I just spent a week over thereabouts. I never knew I was so unwell until I started flipping channels.