Modern Vespa

As an addition to those magazines you could google " BMW Loncin Contracts" and read about where the technical details originate.
It's a global economy and companies hire talent where it is found, Italian, Asian, America's, so on.
The BMW clubs all went ape shit when BMW first began using the Asian factory arrangements.Now it's the Indians for the little bikes.

Way late to this discussion (since a decision has been made), but having previously owned a Burgman 650 and Majesty 400, (comparable maxi scoots), I find the riding position of my GTS 300 much more comfortable. Not the ride, but the riding position. The Burgie and Majesty had a typical maxiscoot cruiser-ish riding position-feet out and elevated, arms extended, torso curved forward. After an hour, my knees ached, my quads were cramping, and my back hurt. The Vespa's more upright riding position, with arms lower, is comfortable for me for much longer.

My Burgman and Majesty were fast, reliable, stable and smooth, but uncomfortable for very long (search the user fora and you'll see lots of complaints about seating and knee pain). My Vespa is comparatively twitchy and slower, but more comfortable, and I ride it a lot more.

BTW, if you haven't seen the website below, give it a look. Enter your scooter and others you might be considering, your height and inseam, and scroll back and forth between the bikes to see how your ergos change. It's a hoot.

cycle-ergo.com

Haha I just used that tool to see me on my Xmax.....it honestly was nothing like reality.....fun though

Worked pretty well for me, but everybody is different.

bought a second key fob and programmed it. Also learned how to start the xmax without any key.

Sounds like you are settling in with the new ride. You know - even though this is a Vespa site, it would be just fine to add your Xmax to your profile.

Just for the information of others toward find machines that fit their body per the link above to www.cycle-ergos.com
I am a short legs and arms rider and many PTW's simply don't fit me. I tried using that websites ergo calculator some years back and found it to be of zero use as it doesn't incorporate important information.
A persons height alone is not but one small piece of necessary information!
The reach and inseam matter along with how tall your torso might be.
When you but a bicycle the situation becomes far more manageable!!!
We bought new MTB's last spring and TREK and other mfg.'s have the ergo's of their bicycles posted on the website.
Why MC mfg.'s don't publish this information or make a better attempt at building machines that fit riders tall & short is curious to me. I understand that a MC isn't as easily built frame wise in various size combos but they still could do us way better!
As an e.g., I used to ride a 2006 BMW R1150R, a sports touring bike. It was standard suspension and that model had an adjustable seat which I lowered as far as it would go and then some by messing with the mounts. Motorcycles also often allow one to use "riser/setbacks" in a combo that changes the handlebar reach for best fit. Most scooters and many MC's have little means of adjustment. I read reviews of PTW's as they come out and nearly zero of them fit me. Riding gear is mostly the same way for short guys and many females, no doubt.
This situation doesn't infect clothing which comes in many sizes.
Wake up manufacturers!

You can choose your inseam on the calculator and seat position. They're on the right side of the diagram.

afraid of rejection.....

My point stands that the thing doesn't work for me, inseam left out and un- mentioned by me or not. The stickman leaning out is about all I'll get from the pictogram, been there done that...
It is sort of OK IMO but not what I'd use to spend thousands of $$$ on a PTW thinking it fit me.

I agree it will never replace an actual test sit/ride, but by putting 4 or 5 machines side by side and scrolling my scroll wheel, I could see the RELATIVE difference in riding positions, which, since I had already owned two of the scooters, led me to look at, and ultimately buy, the Vespa. I also agree motorcycles these days have gotten taller and wider. I have a short inseam and long torso, so most of the bikes I can comfortably ride tend to be 70s and 80s middle weights (and modern big scooters) Next to a modern motorcycle, the older bikes look tiny.

No, we still love you.

Thank god This forum and community was extremely helpful in my understanding of Vespa service, maintenance, and mechanics that I can now use on my xmax. Thank you to all!

I know I will be buying another vespa again when I can actually afford one.

https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/yamaha/2018-yamaha-xmax-review.html

That's a good review. Agree with most points.
One thing I noticed is that it only has 1 year warranty in the U.S.
Is that true?
I got a 3 year, 30,000 km warranty with mine.

1 year is not enough in my opinion.

Yes, in the USA the XMAX has a 1 year warranty.

If you want a motorcycle that doesn't shift, and you can sit on like a chair, get the Yamaha. The BMW is an overpriced Kymco.

If you want a real scooter, get a Vespa. To me, the others aren't scooters, they are hybrids. Scootering is different. It's like bombing around on a gas powered chair. And the king of the scooters is VESPA!

So I say get a Vespa!

Couldn't agree more with this. When the Stella died I test rode everything I could find. Including an SMAX. I ended up getting a GTS because only a Vespa felt like a real scooter. Everything else either felt like a toy or a motorcycle. I didn't want a motorcycle.

You say that BMW is a Kymco like it's a bad thing, they make the most reliable scooters around.
That instills confidence in me, BMW owners can use the Kymco CVT parts at 1/4 of the cost of BMW thievery. Owning one has never been more attractive.

Small wheels gets tiring for the older guys (I'm 43). Fighting the bars over every road imperfection and hole.
Ride a GTS and then a XMAX back to back and you'll surely change your mind.
The GTS is a 15 year old design, it rides like an old bike.

Plastic body is refreshing. I don't have to care about dents, rust anymore. Replacement panels are replaced in minutes and dirt cheap compared to paint shop downtime and cost.
My other 3 scoots are Vespa and they have gathered dust (and rust) since XMAX came into my life and I can't see me riding one anytime soon.
I still love Vespa but they require a lot more care than I'm willing to give right now.

Problems don't really arise in the first year.
Maybe as the scooter market grows in the U.S, competition will make manufacturers extend the warranty period.
I must admit it's a crowded market for sccoters out here so they need those incentives like warranty to attract buyers.

My Majesty and Burgman were excellent scooters, and much higher performance than my GTS, but their stretched out ergos were just not as comfortable for me. And the plastic bodywork (Tupperware seems to be the common term on the user fora) is a time consuming pain to remove to do even the most basic engine and subsystem (brakes, cooling, etc) repairs. Plus, it gets loose and rattle-y over time. No denting and rusting is a plus, though, as you say.

It's not that there is anything wrong with kymco, it's more that the BMW is overpriced. I'd buy a kymco myroad 700 over the bmw 600, and could likely get one for half the price.

Regardless, those "scooters" are a different animal. They have less of a step through design. They are much bigger. All plastic instead of steel. And more of a luxury two wheeler automatic than a scooter or a motorcycle.

I've always had motorcycles so, at first, I too was attracted to the maxi scooters. I liked the burgman, but didn't like the transmission it came with. The BMW is supposed to handle really well but both are way overpriced.

I was considering a kymco myroad, then I took a few different scooters for test rides, and I realized I don't really need a 600 cc twin. Something closer to 300 cc is plenty for everything but long rides on the freeway, and I don't like that kind of riding anyway.

That lead me to look at what I would call real scooters. And once you get into the real scooter market, vespa is in a league of its own. The gts 300 is the biggest and the best out there.

I looked at a kymco Like, which is o.k. but the engine is too small. Vespa's are expensive new but you can get one used for a good deal. And no other brand has the style of a vespa. The single cylinder engine is super sweet and very reliable. And I'd take a steel body over the usual tupperware any day.

But that's all very subjective and just my opinion.

It's badge prestige with the BMW. Same as when you buy a Vespa. It's not the best scooter out there but the name and design grabs you. There is no shame in that. It's like buying a Rolex watch to tell the time when a Casio can do the same job.
It's common in all industries.
Vespa is a timeless design and the history is there but it's expensive compared to other bikes and it's lacking in technological advancements. I just don't feel safe at speed on a GTS.
I ride a PX also. It's over 40 year old design and it rides like an old bike but I love its charm.

Looking down on the BMW for using Kymco to supply the engines is misguided.
All manufacturers look to others for parts because that's saved on R&D.
Kymco has done the hard work to make reliable scooters, why spend millions to start from scratch?

Look at the new Toyota Supra that's about to go on sale, it's basically a Z series BMW in Toyota clothing.
Even Toyota knows that when it comes to sports cars BMW makes solid roadsters. Toyota makes commuter passenger cars.
They even went to Subaru for the 86 engine.

Technology sharing is the way forward.

I don't see it as plastic vs metal, I see it as tube frame with panels vs unibody. The Vespa design just gives it a more solid ride. And the point would be then to pass this saving on to the customer. A luxury brand like BMW is supposed to give you the originality and quality, that's what you're paying for.

When they introduced the F650 back in '93 it was built by Aprilia with a Rotax engine. A few models later they brought the manufacturing in house. Maybe if the scooter line hangs around they'll do the same in a few years.

I am a member of the "Chain Gang" motorcycle group, so I'm quite familiar with the BMW 650's. Your preaching to the choir...
Badge Prestige? That doesn't hold water for me, but like they say, "if the shoe fits, wear it".
If you want a laughable moment in that vein of thought read some of the millennials comments on the new cars they either bought or are thinking about buying. In thinking I'd learn something useful toward my interest in the new Mazda CX-5 2.5 turbo car I joined the Mazda 24/7 forum. There is a good bit of activity there on the car and some useful purchase information. I'd give it ~ 90% millennial banter about gizmos and other stuff not helpful to a purchase. Edmunds posted buyers reviews have been that way for some years now.
IMO, all three of the scooters in this thread have their respective attractions. If I was taller I might have bought the XMAX or C400.

i agree with this although i've never ridden either...plastics are cheap and easy to replace...a new design by yamaha or bmw should ride better and be more reliable than a 15 year old design...i like the look of the vespa better than both the bmw and the xmax...to me the xmax and bmw look like couches on wheels and they are quite large looking...if i wanted something that big i think i would just buy a motorcycle...the vespa still has more of a scooter look to it...but the xmax and bmw have more advanced features...ideally i'd want to buy a plastic body vespa with all of the technology and reliability of the bmw and xmax...the plastic panels are partly why i went with a buddy over a vespa, besides weight and cost...but i have no brand loyalty (as you can see in my signature) and i like anything on two wheels

Funny how people always resort to the plastic vs steel. Vespa has a lot of plastic on them too. The Yamaha is the best riding scooter that I have ridden and I have owned Vespa GT and Piaggo MP3. So I guess all Piaggio scooters aren't "real" scooters. Interesting how a company can make both real and fake scooters. Both XMAX and GTS have solid frames and ride great. Yamaha is also the most reliable motorcycle brand fewer defects per million in the world. I get the Burgman/Majesty comparison, but the XMAX is nothing like the two. I know because I have owned both and put at least 25k miles on each. I went with the XMAX because it's state of the art design and reliability of the scooter. I've ridden and owned many different scooters in the 14 years that I haven't owned a car in all weather conditions. All scooters have their merits and detractors.

Just got my hands on a new primary gear for the XMAX.
Standard is 37T but the TDR one is 39T. Can cruise on 170kph apparently.
It's lighter for better acceleration when paired with the TDR 15g rollers. They claim it's 1.5 seconds faster to 100kph.
Standard rollers are 17g for reference.
I also bought 16g rollers in case the 15g make it too revvy.

It's about a 15 minutes install so we will see.

Not bad for $90 USD for gear and two sets of rollers.

I wasn't trying to turn it into a pissing match. My bad.
People like what they like and lot of it has to do with brand recognition.
My friend just bought a BMW G310 bike and he admits solely it was for the badge prestige. He could have bought the Yamaha R3, a far superior bike any which way you look at it and had 2 grand in his pocket.
He wants that BMW badge. Plain and simple.

Can I assume you bought the 300, which this is for?

Yes 300cc.
These gears are for 250cc and 300cc XMAX's. Transmissions are the same.
Anything over 250cc in Indonesia gets a 50% tax hike. That's why Indonesia gets the 250cc

This mod is wild. The Indonesian market 250cc are buying these from Thailand.
It's a 380cc kit with new throttle body, intake pipe, Exhaust system, injector and transmission parts.
Only 1300 USD for the ones game enough. I'm not sure I want go that path.
Maybe after my warranty is out. Maybe.

Once again, it's not about either of those things. A Vespa is simply a unique machine, built entirely different than any other scooter. It has a ride and feel that no other bike has.

I've done over 70 on a Stella and felt fine. I do 80 on my GTS all the time.

Vespa like Lambretta just got it right, same with the beetle and the mini, just timeless design. (Shame Scomadi did a better job reviving the Lambi design).

This is a Vespa forum after all, and it's pointless trying to say anything oppositional cause we're on here for the reason we love Vespa.

(Said even though I've sold my Vespa for an Xmax which I'll defend over anything as it's fantastic).

If I ever get to the point of having a second scooter it will be for either a Vespa or Lambi or a replica in either design.

Gee, I must really be out of it then because I am pretty satisfied with the ride, performance, and reliability of both my GTS and Buddy 125 (which is an older design than the GTS Vespa BTW). How is your Buddy treating you?

I must agree. My Vespas are not only old design, they are just old. They have lots of miles on them too, but they ride great.

My new XMAX rides great too, if a bit stiff. I like the Vespa ride better.

As for performance, I don't know why one would change a thing on the XMAX. Mine accelerates well and tops out at around 85 mph. Who needs more than that?

Bill

oh i know the buddy is a 2006 design which is mostly unchanged over the years...i assumed it's an older design than the GTS...i've only had my buddy for 1 season and haven't put a ton of miles on it due to limited time, so time will tell how it treats me and if i'm satisfied but i like it thus far...if i had found a used vespa at a reasonable price i may have had one right now instead of the buddy...but what i'm saying is technology will always advance so the newer design should be better than the older design...a newer design may also be more complicated than an older design...but i'm willing to bet that i would like the ride of a xmax better than my buddy 125 but i didn't want to spend that kind of money at the time...even if i'm satisfied that doesn't mean that there isn't a scooter out there that's newer and better...whether or not it's substantially better and i need those new better features/performance is the real question

Changing the shocks on the XMAX is the best modification you can do for sure. The stock shocks are way too stiff and it was affecting the rear traction on acceleration. The front forks are too bouncy and that air noise at compression isn't right to me.
The traction control used to kick in a lot more on the stock shocks. Once I replaced them the power is getting down to the road a lot better. Less TCS light blinking on my favourite hill.

As for other mods, I agree with you. It's fast enough but I'm addicted to changing out stuff. Done it with every car and bike Ive owned. I'm always looking at the modifications before I buy the bike.
I only bought the PX to go crazy on. Modifying is part of bike/scoot ownership for me.

The lighter rollers and gear is a great improvement for the money. I can cruise at a lower RPM and slightly better acceleration.
I'll do the pipe and a tail tidy and I'm done modifying this bike and I'll move on to the VanVan 200. After inquiring about the 380cc kit I decided against it. It's impossible to use with the TCS on. Can't put the power down and the API stand alone ECU leaves the engine light on. My OCD won't enjoy all those yellow lights on the dash.

I guess we live on different continents is the reason why we see it differently.
In a market flooded with all kinds of scooters, the Vespa is considered a status symbol. Unobtainable to a majority of the country.

Thailand has 78 million registered scooters. Mostly Honda and Yamaha 2nd. Vespa has barely sold 400,000 units.