Modern Vespa

2013, 4500 miles, babied, garage baby. Pour water in coolant tank and it comes out bottom of the engine (?).. about 2 inches below spark plug and a bit forward of spark plug. There is what appears to be a short piece of pipe coming out the bottom and that is where the coolant is flowing from. It is not a separate pipe ..it is cast into the housing facing down. From my reading there is some type of plug that AF1 sells that goes in that hole. Mine is rotted away of fallen out. The inside of the pipe (for lack of correct term)is very rusty as is the muffler clamp that is nearby...guessing leaking for a while?? Any advice? How to get old plug out and new one in? Sounds like Piaggio is not going to be of any help, but at 4500 miles I think they should. A steel screw in an aluminum block?

J

That is a freeze plug.

Check the following thread. Probably the "freeze plug" corroded. Pretty typical on Piaggio engines...

2013 BV350 coolant leak with only 3,500 miles - video

piaggio help? The scooter is 5 years old and probably never been maintained properly. IE: coolant flush and fill every 2 years.

you are correct..I have not flushed the coolant...really don't think it was necessary with so few miles.

Do you live where it gets below freezing? Have you been putting just water in tbs coolant?

So i guess the freeze plug is a misnomer.

Yes, typical on any motor the coolant didn't get changed. Coolant is a corrosion preventer, till it gets old, then it's a corrosive.

Seen it happen many times even after a coolant change. Most models I worked with and had this problem were between 2013 - 2015. We even had two new Aprilia SR Max 300 under warranty which developed the problem. Maybe a bad batch of freeze plugs, I really don't know. I also had a few, where the plug under the camshaft just popped out. When the Beverly 200 hit the European market, we had a massive recall with this problem. It was due to wrong dimension of the plug...

When my 2013 BV350 had the problem, the dealer told me that they were told by Piaggio that it was a bad batch of freeze plugs.

I got lucky with mine that I'd only had it 1 month, had bought it with 1200 miles, and the dealer had done all of the service. Because of all of that, Piaggio covered the part, even though it was out of warranty. And because I'd only had it a month, the shop covered the labor, and gave me a loaner.

The BV350 appears to have a few issues with the cooling system. I was advised by one of our suppliers in Italy to start carrying BV350 water pump rebuild kits. He said it's a real big seller in Italy and we would outsell the GT200 kit (which has been a pretty steady seller,) by at least five to one. I figure I'll see what starts happening mid summer before cashing in all the beanie babies and investing in waterpump kit futures.

Yeah, thought it would be a wrong spec freeze plug rather than a corrosion problem. As WEB-Tech indicates, the ethylene glycol OAT coolant will stop any corrosion during it's normal service life but after that the PH value changes due to the depletion of it's additives and becomes very acidic over time, thus eating anything metal and of course, it also won't lubricate the water pump seals very well causing that to fail early too. Doesn't matter what miles the scooter covers, changing the coolant is a time based thing. Miles are much less important. I tested the coolant on a brand new bike that had been standing for 18 months on the shop floor and the tester revealed the coolant was due for changing as it had dropped outside the safe PH level and was acidic and that's even before we sold it! On checking the bikes manufacture date, the bike was in fact over two years old. We also changed the engine oil on the bike before it went out to a customer as oil also breaks down in the motor at that age.

Yesterday I was able to pull out the remnant of the plug. Here are pictures of it and the hole that needs filling. Today I start searching for the plug and sealant for it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am going to call some auto parts stores first off. I am worried about being able to get it back in the hole while the engine is in the scooter...but taking the engine out would be the death of me/and or the scooter.

wondering now if I turned a piece of brass round rod down to the proper diameter if it would work and be less flimsy when I beat it back into place?? or stainless steel, or aluminum?

Take that piece to an Auto Part store, Not Auto Zone or Advanced Auto, a real Auto Parts store. NAPA should work. They should be able to match one up for you.

If you can get a straight shot getting it in shouldn't be to bad.



Wayne B

If you don't have a straight shot, think of using a bolt and a threaded sleeve as a press to press it in.

Was just thinking, paintless dent repair guys make all kinds of tools to press dents out from hard to reach places, they may be able to press a freeze plug in.

napa said call auto machine shop...they told me call motorcycle place...Honda did not want to diddle with me. THe solid one is sounding better all the time. I am leaning towards stainless steel. I was told that Aviation Permatex is the sealant to use. Wish I could verify the size somewhere.

J

I wouldn't use anything other than a proper freeze plug. The freeze plug is designed to flex into place as you hit it. Read up on the fitting technique. Anything solid such as you are suggesting will usually leak due to problems with expansion and contraction differences. The sealant won't last long under those conditions. The freeze plug has to be able to deal with heat, pressure of coolant (13psi), and vibration. Don't deviate from standard. Contact Piaggio hq and ask for the spec of the plug. Although they don't supply it (it seems) they will be able to tell you the size needed.

Having a terrible time getting Piaggio to help me find a new plug. Going into week 2...at least they asked the vin number last Thursday. Maybe I will hear soon. If anyone knows who I might talk to to get one sooner please let me know. It is slightly less the .5 inch, my friend said maybe a 12mm. I would prefer that Piaggio supplies it..then I know I have the right size. People say they are easy to come by...not what I am finding....there are tons of googelable freeze/core plugs...then it gets crazy.

Slightly less than 0.5 inch would be more like 10-12mm.

4mm is slightly more than 0.125".

sorry caught that shortly after posting.

Piaggio can't supply something that is not in their spare parts catalogs. You won't find a freeze plug or specific dimensions for it, when it's not a replaceable part (by Piaggio). They only sell the entire cylinder head...

I am guessing they could get it from whoever made the heads for them. or tell me who to contact.

Got this from another thread. It worked for me. I have about 6000 miles on it since I replaced the plug. No problems.


Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:14 pm quote
Fixed!

The plug that works is made by Melling, part #MPC-108. I purchased it from summit racing. The SAE equivalent of 12 millimeters is .472". The plug measured .478". It was a bit tricky to drive it in straight into the casting, but I got pretty close. It would help to freeze it first if you have the means.

Great info........ THANKS

should we all just be changing the freeze plug regardless of whether coolant has been changed? btw, this is sort of engineering non-sense, isn't it? since when has coolant needed changing every 2 years?

(edit: i'm pretty sure i'm going to get taken to task for the last sentence lol)

I would advise a visual examination of the plug...from my readings it rots from the outside in, so you should be able to see the problem before it cuts loose like it did on me - whoosh I had a half inch hole. It is visible from the bottom up, or with an endoscopy camera. You can see where it is through the inspection panel on the right side - One screw to open, just above foot rest. If you search these forums with the part number given above you can find the topic originally addressed and pictures of the failing core plug in place.

>>

Ah, since 15 seconds after reading the maintenance schedule on any Piaggio or Vespa scooter? And add brake fluid to that same list. Sure, many owners don't do that, but not doing it and then complaining about the result is somewhat silly.

Here in the UK it's a prolific selling bike. Lots of them! But no big issue over failing freeze plugs. Very rare so just don't worry about it but check it once in a while like you should visually inspect every part of your engine occasionally. And yes, changing OAT engine coolant in engines with cast iron cylinders is normal at two years. Nothing new there. The same coolant in an engine without any cast iron in it usually will have a 5 year recommended change period, but even then, not always. Depends on several factors.

Go to a GM dealership and tell them you need freeze plug for the Oil Galley of a 305 then show them the peice you have. They may have to order the whole kit.

"Brass Freeze/Block Plugs Kit For Chevy 305,307,327,350. This Freeze Plug / Block Plug Kit includes the folllwing:

8 of MPC-41-B Block Plug
2 of MPC-48 Oil Galley
3 of MPC-95 Oil Galley
3 of MPC-108 Oil Galley
1 of MPS-78 Camshaft
5 of MPP-567"

I think I got it fixed this past weekend. Bought a 12 mm plug from NAPA Auto parts for $1 ish, used aviation permatex on hole and plug, and drove it in using a piece of 5/16 round rod welded to a tool I made to fit the plug. Let the permatex set for a day and then flushed out coolant and refilled with Dex cool. Have ridden about 30 miles and no sign of problems. Keeping my fingers crossed.

And bad bad on Piaggio for their lack of direction in fixing this problem. Will keep me from ever doing business or recommending them.

>>

Well done! But don't be too harsh on Piaggio. Many other bike manufacturers are just the same and don't supply replacement core plugs (freeze plugs) off the shelf. They don't normally give any trouble though and at least you can get them elsewhere.

sorry to say but they sucked in every way. Take the Money and Run