Modern Vespa

How many Vespa / Piaggio dealers are still in business? I don't get it, such a well done product but poor consumer response. Your thoughts.

My thought is that if you lay the blame on the consumer you are looking in the wrong place. The consumer is never wrong. I don't mean that in a literal sense, and I know politics are verboten here, but I hope you and I can agree that in a free world nobody ought to be able to tell me what brand of vehicle I must buy.
If we agree on that, what does that leave?
In my experience, marques often foist ever more onerous demands on dealers, until the dealers give up. Especially when the brand is popular. Vespa isn't very popular, but it does pretty much have a niche all its own. And if you want to get involved you must play by their rules. Until you've owned a dealership and tried to comply with all this you really have no idea how much stress is involved. If you know what I'm talking about I needn't say any more. In my experience it's rare for a brand to look within for solutions. Far easier to look to the dealer. If I were setting up distribution for my brand I'd certainly try to give the dealer a reason to want to sell my brand. That means doing things like having a good supply of product, not putting ridiculous demands on what must be stocked, not trying to make all my money on dealer interest on floor planning, not opening up a dealer right next to another, rewarding dealers for loyalty, not closing out product in a way that sticks it to the dealer with stock, etc. etc.
Of course it's a balancing act. But when you see mass numbers of dealers dropping a brand, that ought to be a wake up call for management. Generally it means that the brand isn't as desirable as the home office thinks it is. Time to balance it more in the dealers favor.
Those are my thoughts.

Jennifer, I tend to agree with your analysis in many ways. Vespa are not very popular?? Not sure I'd agree with that one, at least not over here in 'urop'. The GTS300 is the number one selling bike in it's class over here in the UK, outselling all other bikes easily. It's a great bike, as are the other bikes in the range.

Piaggio do make very big demands on dealers in many many ways. If you are a multi franchise dealer your Vespas must not share the same floor space with other brands, you must stock all the range, you must pay half towards all warranty work labour costs, you must meet your targets...etc etc it goes on and on. This can indeed cause a lot of stress to dealers. Of course, Piaggio are not the only manufacturer to lay down these rules, and as such this makes it a pretty much even 'playing field'. While all other manufacturers make similar demands of their dealers, normally the dealers don't have to put money towards the warranty claims in the same way. I do think in the states that Vespa are a very niche brand, and therefore not supported 'en-mass' like they are over here. We also have a different mentality towards scooters over here, they are a real workhorse and not just a pleasure vehicle. Many folks over here use them instead of their cars and often cover very big mileages on their Vespa. PIaggio could do much to make it easier to sell more Vespas and make it easier for dealers. I wonder if that will happen?

Sadly I think it's our culture here in the U.S. We're used to cheap gas, so cars win the debate, especially in the Midwest where half the year is unfavorable to PTWs. When people do buy higher-value PTWs, the trend has been toward bigger motorcycles. I personally don't get it.

BTW, I think Vespa Madison has done great by me, and is doing things well. Only wish it wasn't 70 miles away.

Since the question was asked by someone in the U.S., I assume he's asking about U.S. dealers. All reasons already given are valid. Prospective Vespa owners are a niche market. I'd go further to say they are viewed as a "toy", a plaything for the U.S. buyer.

They seem to predominate at sunny climates as a plaything, or maybe with hipsters in the cities. Even w/r/t cities, the big M/C manufacturers are now selling 300cc smaller frame bikes to lure those buyers. Sorry to say, I don't see a better future for Vespas in that market.

Vespa's are expensive and people don't really know about them. I should see more of them over here. We have the perfect environment for them. I also think one of the biggest problems Piaggio has in the USA is service. Huge problem when you don't have good mechanics to work on them.

you would think Piaggio would want to attract the "new" rider segment with a unintimidating stylish ride.
Could care less about a dealer network. More times than not they aren't staffed with anything but rubes. Obviously there are some that do better than others. I think I would much rather have a handful of enthusiast dealer(s) that could get you what you need in a day or 2 with modern logistics.

This message board has more info and resources than a typical scooter dealer.
I dont see it going away anytime soon.

I live in Cornwall and there isn't a single Vespa dealer in the county. There's one with very mixed reviews just over the bridge in Exeter (over 90 miles away) and the next, good one is twice that distance away in Bristol. I bought my GTS second-hand from my local Kawasaki agent and he services it for me.

What kind of info is delaer not providing that you think they should be?
They are not going to tell you how to repair it, that would take away from their work load, which is how they make their money.

Dealer aren't their to ask questions unless it's about a sale or what a service will cost, they aren't a tech support team.

I'm not a businessman but I find the mere idea of opening a dealership to be daunting. In addition to the above, the Internet creates huge inroads into potential profits.
Dealers make a few hundred dollars on a scooter sale. The accessories and servicing and parts are all in competition with online suppliers.
Besides all that there are precious few reasons to buy a brand new 2018 GTS over say a 2015 at less than half price with say 3,000 miles on and all sorts of farkles that failed to retain the owner's interest in riding.
Like marriage it could be said that opening a dealership is a triumph of hope over experience.

A local dealer should at least generate interest in the product.
Last time I was by my local place it looked like a storage unit. Bleak & depressing. No merchandise to inspire an "impulse" sale and no displays that showed its versatility & perfection as a commuter vehicle.
Not even a $20 "retro" T shirt that all the OEMs are doing now!
Compared to walking into ScooterWest... where I found myself like a kid in a candy store! I spent $200+ on shirts, jackets, & interesting gifts for folks.

Harley dealerships have been selling T shirts for years. They dont care if you spend $50,000 or $4.00 but they know how to make money off foot traffic. Last year our local HD dealer sold 10,000+ t shirts.

The mega motorcycle dealers selling HD's & aftermarket HD glitter are the only really large, high traffic PTW dealers I've seen in the USA. The multi line Asian and Euro MC dealers have far more traffic on ATV's & UTV's. Many of the older ones started as MC's only then transitioned into what sells and floor space goes to the winner.
The nearest Vespa/Piaggio dealer to me closed several years ago in Lexington,KY a small city of 1/3 million people with a major university and much blue blooded money in the horse industry around there. The couple times I went in there it was clean, had scoots and was basically empty of customers.
I wonder how many Vespa scooters are sold in the USA? and compared to the UK? and overall/ all brands scooter sales in both countries?

I'm one of the lucky ones with a great local dealer. Moto Europa has Vespa, Ducati, Triumph and KTM. The motorcycles do a good business I think - the scooters a little less so - they still have some brand new 2015 Sprints and Primaveras on the floor. I've seen a number of GTS/GTVs cycle through though, including the Sei Giorni that I drooled over. But they have a pretty loyal following for service (including me) so they'll always get my business. I bought my Vespa off CL but my husband got his Triumph Speedmaster there after going with me for a service dropoff and being so impressed with their team.

Basically it seems Piaggio did what many late 20th century marketers did: invert the model upon which they originally built their successful empire.

In other words, Vespas were originally the chosen ride of the great unwashed: cheap, indestructable and easily maintained. That's why the majority are actually in India.

So, hey, some Gucci clad Italian marketing guru thought, "oy, Luigi, let's slap the 'Vespa' name on an overpriced, difficult to maintain, easily catastrophically damaged niche item and throw it at the Americans! They love overpriced ptws!"

Thus, I blame Harley Davidson because that overpriced niche market approach really worked well for them, and no doubt Piaggio thought there were as many wealthy, aging ex-Mods over here as there were wealthy, aging rockers.

And they were wrong. It turns out that those of us who still love The Jam are outnumbered by those who still love Steppenwolf by a faction of one to a gazillion (roughly).

Meanwhile, in Japan and China...they're building scooters for the great unwashed....

One issue, I'm certain, is the perception of price. Since the scooter isn't considered a primary form of transportation by much of the US market, the average consumer doesn't see the advantage to spending $5k for a Vespa or even $3K for a Honda, when they can buy a Chinese 150 for $1300. They fail to understand that their inexpensive acquisition will leave a trail of parts home from the dealer, and will likely be worn out in a matter o fa couple of thousand miles, if it runs that long. They see shiny and cheap, and then they're blinded by the price.

Think we are part of the problem. The dealer is in business to make money, and most of that profit comes from accessories and service. If we continue to save a few bucks by ordering from discount houses found on the internet and do most of the service ourselves, how is the dealer going to be able to stay in business? Our dealers should know each of us by name and greet us when we come through their door and we can/should make that happen.

Mine know me by name because I'm forever bringing my scooter in to have them fix what I tried to DIY

Mentioned this before, but out here all the surviving PTW dealers make most of their money selling quads and/or outboard motors and snowmobiles. It's very, very rare to survive on PTWs alone, and that holds true for name brands like Honda, Yamaha et al which aren't fighting the uphill brand recognition battle.

The other thing I've recently noticed is that all the thriving dealers show no brand loyalty whatsoever: they all stock a couple Hondas, a couple Suzukis, a couple Yamahas, a couple BMWs....

Orin of Scootin Old Skool fame had an interesting idea awhile back. He thought about having Walmart stock Indian built economy Vespa 125s for sale and service through Walmart. A modern version of the Allstate Vespa.
Not that anyone was listening I suppose.

A new era Allstate. Cool idea. They could call it Walstate.

"The great unwashed"? come on...

In Mexico, where I've spent lots of time on MC tours and fly & drives, you see few scooters, mostly Chinese pizza bikes bought at an appliance store in market towns. Same thing in the cities except there are actual PTW dealers there. There are a few Asian brand name bikes but not that many. Scooters don't seem to serve their purpose as well even in large cities there.
Allstate scooters take me back to my childhood when we lived inside a Sears & Roebuck/ Monkey Wards dreamland. I spent hours on the pages where the Italian motorcycles were listed along with scooters. Not that I had any money in the game.
Once I got brave and asked my Dad if I could "have a scooter or motorcycle"? He said sure, find the money and buy one.
Honestly speaking, scooters are not taken seriously in the USA.
I could care less if a vehicle dealer of any kind knows me by name. I bought on the used market and buy parts where it makes sense to my budget. Being a skilled trades person has me in self maintenance mode 100%. In riding PTW since 1963 I have never bought a new ride.
I'm not in the majority but reality says buy parts & accessories from someone, anyone who's not the mafia, etc.. Living rural that is nearly always the place that sells to my puter and the UPS man comes here every week. He needs a job just like the scooter parts web sellers do!

I don't know that scooters aren't taken seriously. Bintelli, a Chinese scooter distributor, has 115 dealers nationwide. The 50cc scooter accounts for 65% of scooter sales here and they sell those in abundance. Bintelli also distributes electric bicycles and their dealers carry those too. With both the Aprilia and Piaggio carrying 50cc scooters at under two grand it would behoove Piaggio Inc. to push those just to keep the doors open and bite into that 65% market.

Bingo.

I've already chronicled my own Dealer-Done-Left-Me misadventure that almost immediately turned 180 degrees from depression to delight with a new dealership (even closer!), which actually takes the brand seriously, which the old dealer certainly wasn't. I also intimated that perhaps Piaggio is finally taking the somewhat-flaky dealership arrangement here a bit more seriously; I don't know this as a fact, of course, but the conversation I had with the owners of the new dealership, in regard to their own conversations with Piaggio, along with my giving my own two cents' worth with a Piaggio rep who happened to show up during an Open House the dealer had a bunch of days ago, give me a bit more than a glimmer of hope. We'll see. My new dealer managed to blow through a slew of 50cc Vespas and Piaggios even before they even had all the bikes properly set up on the showroom floor - something my old dealer apparently couldn't accomplish. Part of this can be chalked up to location: the new dealer is in a relatively plum location compared to the old one, so that undoubtably helps, but the inviting nature and spaciousness of the showroom is also a major draw. Besides Vespa, they've sold a buttload of Indians, and the three Royal Enfield Himalayas they could get their hands on were presold before they even hit the showroom floor (which they ultimately did, and they looked rather nice).

Greetings! Since I travel a lot on business I have observed a few fundamental differences between most countries and the United States with respect to two wheel transportation. First, due to tax laws in most countries, the tax on two wheel transportation is based on motor size and this favors the smaller two wheel transportation vehicles such as scooters. Second, the price of gas is a lot more expensive in most countries than in the United States, and this also favors scooters due to their high mileage. Third, people in most countries use two wheel vehicles as transportation where as in the United States motorcycle and scooter are primarily used for recreation. Fourth, in most countries the ratio of scooters to motorcycles for is far greater than the in the United States. Fifth, in the United States there are far more non-Vespa scooters than Vespa's on the road. Finally, in the United States, overall sales of all motorcycles and scooters have been declining over the last few years and still appears to be in decline. All of this my explain the low number of Vespa dealers and the drop off in dealers in general in the United States.

Motor vehicle laws have changed so much since the 1960s that it would be almost impossible for them to do this.
No matter how much you want things to be different, the simple truth is that the US doesn't buy scooters in enough quantity to make a difference to any of the big companies. Given what it costs to get permission to sell a model in the US, Honda probably lost money bringing the SH150 over. And that's one of the most popular scooters in the world. The Japanese companies bring their Asian market stuff here, and have done so for years, or the old, tired stuff once they've moved the tooling to another country, like Mexico. Remember how many years they were selling the Elite 60 and Honda Helix, two ideas who's time had long since gone? Yamaha brings the Vino, which is popular in Asia, not sold in Europe, etc. And how many people do you know who aren't into scooters who lament the fact that we don't have the cool models they do in other places? Everytime the big companies test the waters in the US, they get burned.
Meanwhile, you can go into a department store in Chile and buy a new Honda or Suzuki 125cc scooter. Because the demand is there. When you stop seeing three year old scooters on the showroom floor just about everywhere, you will start seeing more interest by the manufacturers. No matter how enthusiastic the dealer is about selling Vespa, the guy coming in for an ATV to go hunting is not leaving on a new chartreuse Primavera.
As far as looking as the business model of a company that imports Chinese junk and asking why the big companies don't emulate them, there is more profit for the dealer selling the $1000 Chinese scooter than there is selling a $2000 Piaggio fly or Aprilia SR Motard. The companies like Piaggio make the product, and have to stand behind it, the companies importing the Chinese crap scooters just move on to another supplier if they get a better price or a new name if the Government shuts them down, because they have no real obligation to stand behind what they are selling. Keep in mind that the Chinese scooters we get in the US are not the same quality as what they sell the rest of the world, because they don't have to be.

Elsewhere in a recent post the discussion of being bamboozled on price was discussing $9,000 delivered price for a GTS. I love my GTS but I paid $3100 last year for a 2012 with 700 miles on it. Prior to that I had an 06 with 900 miles on it which I paid $2700. Be serious now. There is no way in the world I would pay $9k for one and I don't know anyone else among my moto friends that would. $9,000 buys you a heck of a lot of more motorcycle elsewhere. I paid $11,700 for a new 2013 BMW F800GT which I have put close to 30,000 miles and ridden across the USA and back a couple times. Sometimes I'm surprised there are any stand alone Vespa dealers in the USA at all.

Yeah, you beat me to it; I just went from that thread to this thinking exactly the same thing.

I am definitely not a Chinese scooter expert, if there is such a thing?
What I have observed is that the dealers I've seen have been "buy here/pay here" used car lots or similar. I've also seen pawn shops with a couple of dead ones sitting aside the pawned title cars.
In my opinion Motovista & sandiego_steve pretty much nailed this USA scooter business-what little there is of it...
I do stand by having said they are not taken seriously in the USA-meaning the average Joe or Susie Q, not only doesn't want one, doesn't know or want to know anything about them and they will remain in their soccer mom suv or Gringo/camo/macho pickup truck as long as they are sold here.
Talking gasoline & scooters, I get a laugh from our evening local TV news(not really so "local") who uses the AAA to pontificate on gasoline price surges. Last night the AAA blamed the "guy" vs. a middle eastern country (trying hard to keep this non-political) for gasoline going up locally. Weird excuse IMO. Gasoline's said to be at it's highest in some years-lets see if scooter sales do an uptick, or PU truck sales go down?

Wide open spaces, giant *ss SUVs, people not paying attention, big chrome bike culture...At least where I live I rarely see another scooter much less another Vespa.

The title, "How many dealers are left" and remains unanswered?

Well, there's no easily accessible list, but have a look here: http://www.piaggiousa.com/find-dealer.html

As for my German hometown of Augsburg, near Munich: in our 300.000 citizen city there are five dealers. They all have been selling Vespas for at least 30 or 40 years and no end to that in sight. Vespas are in high regard throughout Germany, despite their many drawbacks. The Vespa GTS 300 has been the second best selling bike in Germany for years, just behind a much bigger BMW motorbike.

That said, fingers crossed for those US Vespa fans among our crowd!

No way can you expect Piaggio dealers to copy Harley's business model. Since 2000, Harley has made more profit on the "lifestyle"- black jackets, t-shirts, helmets, coffee mugs and key chains than they make on motorcycle sales. And now that a Harley trike for example, lists for $40K, I'd say the H-D dealer is making a tidy more profit on sales than a Vespa dealer is capable of making.

We, (the USA) are conditioned to drive everywhere. Unless you live in a large city, you're commuting to work, driving to WalMart, and out to dinner.
Two wheels are a ride just for "fun", not a serious means of running our errands.

And with those SUVs you mention doing 90MPH following six inches behind the car in front of them on our Interstates, what scooter rider wants a part of that?

Sadly it appears Piaggio has indeed followed that model (see below).

As a larger trend, following the 2008 housing crash and foreclosure debacle, wages have not kept up with inflation and Americans are vastly less willing to carry large debt, especially on large luxury items...like PTWs.

This is probably especially true of millenials, the demographic Vespa would have traditionally targeted (urban, fashion conscious, childless, so no need for a car etc). That demographic already now carries high student loan debt and owns property at drastically reduced levels.

So, how many 24 year olds can really be expected to plunk down $9,000 for GTS 300?

From January 2018:
"Harley-Davidson Inc. on Tuesday reported its fourth straight year of declining sales as the Milwaukee motorcycle maker struggles to get more riders on Hogs.

Harley's motorcycle-related revenue fell 6.8% in 2017 to $4.92 billion, as retail sales continued to suffer in the U.S. and around the globe. Analysts polled by Thomson Reuters had expected revenue of $4.88 billion.

Shares of the company fell 4.7% in premarket trading to $52.70.

Harley-Davidson said its global retail motorcycle sales fell 6.7% in 2017, compared with the prior year, with U.S. sales down 8.5% and international sales declining 3.9%.

Harley said it shipped 144,893 motorcycles in the U.S. in 2017, a drop of 10% from the year before."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/harley-davidson-sales-decline-continues-2018-01-30

http://bintelliscooters.com/find-a-dealer/

http://mopedinternational.org/1073987.html

Bintelli distributes Adly

Funny thing is I bought a used 2013 BMW F800GT with 8400 miles on it for $5500.00. New is new and used is used.

Oh the irony.

SDG

I'd say very few since the entry level motorcycle market is expanding more and more every month it seems...with greater value for their buck.

Ducati Scrambler 400- $7,000
BMW G310 - $4750
Honda Rebel 300 - $4500

The new dealer in these parts seems determined to let people know they're here, partly by putting on events (open-house days, rides, etc.) and, whaddaya know, good ol' print adverts. I stopped in very briefly yesterday to see how things were going; they're still getting a few more things set up in the Vespa showroom, but so far things are going quite well, having already sold quite a few machines.

Wow, I just sold mine for just over $6k with a top case included. I did better than I realized.

How much has Kymco done to support Amerivespa over time?

How much has Piaggio done to support Amerivespa over time?

Losing dealers or market in the US does not seem to be of any concern to Piaggio.