Modern Vespa

You are talking about a bad dealer. The OP said nothing about dealer being an ass or did Vintage1. So what's your point? One dealer sales person was an asshloe to you, so every sales person is an asshole? I promiss that salesman sees more assholes tire kickers in a month than you see in years.

If you have never made a living selling cars or motocycle you don't have a clue.

If would be great having a clutch in a city the size of a large nieborhood instead of a scooter

EVERY dealership has that code dude

So we agree there's bad dealers? Thank you for getting that out of the way.
Yes, buyers can be a-holes to sales people. They shop around, pitting one dealer's price against another's. It's called shopping. We do it with TVs, computers, washing machines. This week Lowes has a better price on that washer-dryer than Home Depot, so who am I going to buy from?

That's not an excuse for a salesman to outright lie or to refer to someone as a MAGGOT behind their back. At the end of the day, we all have to look at ourselves in the mirror, we need to decide what type of person we want our family, our friends, and our business associates to think we are.

Don't think I don't know what I'm talking about w/r/t car buyers and sellers. After my police career I tried a job as a car salesman at a dealership that always treated me well. Guess what? They changed sales managers to a lying, cheating asshole. He not only wanted us to lie to the buyer, he lied to us when he knew we refused to lie to the buyer. I lasted there 4 months. I didn't build my reputation for being honest over several decades to blow it overnight in a sleazy business like that.

[quote="Vintage1"]
So we agree there's bad dealers? Thank you for getting that out of the way.
Yes, buyers can be a-holes to sales people. They shop around, pitting one dealer's price against another's. It's called shopping. We do it with TVs, computers, washing machines. This week Lowes has a better price on that washer-dryer than Home Depot, so who am I going to buy from?

That's not an excuse for a salesman to outright lie or to refer to someone as a MAGGOT behind their back. At the end of the day, we all have to look at ourselves in the mirror, we need to decide what type of person we want our family, our friends, and our business associates to think we are.

Don't think I don't know what I'm talking about w/r/t car buyers and sellers. After my police career I tried a job as a car salesman at a dealership that always treated me well. Guess what? They changed sales managers to a lying, cheating asshole. He not only wanted us to lie to the buyer, he lied to us when he knew we refused to lie to the buyer. I lasted there 4 months. I didn't build my reputation for being honest over several decades to blow it overnight in a sleazy business like that.

Welcome to the real word of cars sales. That is how most dealers have become because everyone comes in looking to get a better price than the last guy. The internet killed any profit for a dealership on new cars. So the hourly rate in service went up to cover the cost the maggots took away from the dealer.
Yes I use the term maggots a lot because you go shopping dealers to get the lowest price you are a maggot.

Go to Lowes and HomeDeopt and try pitting them against each other in a bidding war and they will tell yolu to pound sand. That price on the merchendise is the price they sell is for. So your anlagy of shopping multiple places for anything else except a house and a car is wrong, because cars and houses are the only thing you shop for that you can negotiate the price.

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If you have never made a living selling cars or motocycle you don't have a clue.[/quote]

its evident that you are/were a sales person, its also evident that you have some disdain for the buyer.

as I said, I've insured enough dealerships....I can tell you how we buy four wheeled vehicles in our family....

a call gets placed to a dealership two states over. as in, I know the owner of the dealership. I insured his business. We say "i'm looking for....." In 20 years, we've never quibbled price.

motorcycles-we have one dealership we go to for the past 20 years (my spouse is a dual sport fanatic, my son hare scrambles). We used to have to two...but Steve died a few years ago and the dealership closed. He was a GREAT dealer, and I loved him. Unfortunately, they do not sell Vespas. However, i can tell you--there is never a reason to be rude to a person. Never. I don't care if you sell snow to the eskimos, never a reason to refer to someone as a maggot. never.

Wow, all this talk of maggots has me interested.
I thought they were just slimy little pre-bugs that ate dead tissues.

Anyway, a question for all of those present or past used or new car salespeople who would suggest anyone who aggressively price-shops on a vehicle is a maggot.

Specifically for those who bought a home.

Did you just walk into that home, like it, and offer the asking price?
Or did you maybe walk into another home, hoping it could be had for less?
OR, did you offer something less than asking price?

In a nutshell, is the shoe, indeed, on the other foot?

Negotiating for abetter price is one thing. Acting rude, obnoxious, and threatening is something alltogether. People remember and what goes around comes around from each side!

its evident that you are/were a sales person, its also evident that you have some disdain for the buyer.

as I said, I've insured enough dealerships....I can tell you how we buy four wheeled vehicles in our family....

[/quote]

Yes I sold cars for 9 months and in that 9 months I found out 80% of cars buyers are cheap low life maggots!
I can count on one hand the number of people that weren't trying to screw the dealership out of every penny of profit they could.

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You say screw the dealership, I say frugal. Why should I pay a penny more for a product than I have to? Oh, so that dealership will think highly of me, and treat me well when I return? I buy vehicles, then take care of them myself. The frequency with which I have someone else do work on a vehicle of mine is about once per, oh, 5 years or more. Turnover at typical dealerships that I have seen suggest no one will recognize me if/when I return. You say you sold cars for 9 months; how long in total did you work at that dealership in a customer-visible position?

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One of the best threads here in a while.

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Wow. You have this all wrong my friend - as the buyer, it is NO part of my responsibility to worry or care at all about dealer profit. Nobody is forced into a job in sales (get an actual skill?) and any commissions a salesperson is hoping to make matters exactly DICK to me - why should it.

In fact, as the CFO of my organization (family) I would be remiss in my duties if I did NOT try to get the absolute lowest price. That is my job as head of my family.

The fact that you think buyers should be "considerate" of the salesperson's chosen (crappy) career path and make sure they have a "fair profit" is ridiculous to me. That's YOUR job not mine. My responsibilities and goals for the transaction are clear, and a salesperson's cut means nothing to the buyer. This is life - jump on board.

No just leave them enough to pay the bills at the end of the month.
You don't understand peolpe would start asking about hold back once they took every other penny, hold back is the money the manufacture gives the dealer once the cars is sold to help pay the interest the dealer was paying to have the car on their lot.
When people start going after hold back they are total maggots.
Dealer I worked at paid cash for their cars so owner put that in his pocket.

Just remember they get it back if you ever go in for service

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I typed something then scrapped it. I'm not gonna be drawn into this BS.

Businesses evolve. If the internet is responsible for lowering some dealer's profit on sales, so what? The industry will shake itself out somehow.
What happened to all the horse trading auctions when automobiles came along?

Many businesses closed or had to reinvent themselves when computers and the internet came along. It wasn't the general public's (or MAGGOTS as you call us) fault.

Um, yeah. I just did that. My daughter's condo size washer-dryer pair just went kaput. There's a Home Depot in her town, but not a Lowes. Lowes had it on sale. We walked into H-D and told them that Lowes had it on sale. They checked that on their own in-house computer and saw that. They then CHEERFULLY matched Lowe's price. It's their policy, but I suppose you're still going to say we somehow screwed Home Depot.

Oh, I also worked loss prevention for Home Depot for several years after my first retirement. My store manager asked me to not be so picky when I would be called to customer service to examine an item being returned without a receipt. (Lots of fraud there as you can imagine)
One example- He even overruled me and said it was OK to accept a cheap Sears Crafstman drill as a return because their company studies had shown when someone is allowed to return an item, they spend, on average, $108 in that store on that visit.

So, you see, not all businesses feel the need to treat their customers as MAGGOTS in order to stay in business. LOL!

Personally, i am pretty loyal to Home Depot. Love Mr. Langone!

Heckin' bamboozled!

FrankNBrew has been ejected from this topic

Debate away but let's not get into personal attacks.

One reality of dealer loyalty is the changing landscape of personnel and sales programs. I'll use the four new Tundra pickups I bought from 2000 (1st ones), 2003, 2005 and last a 2010. I work hard to find a deal, no trade-ins, willing to travel, e.g. 1st in Cinn.,OH, 2nd in Columbia, MO, 3rd in Jacksonville,NC, 4th in Ft. Wayne, IN. I use web searches and a set list of options and colors I'll accept and priced tight to the bottom. I'll avoid the use of the word "invoice" as that price will just stir this thread up even more. In each case it was not possible to go back to any of those dealers and get a similar deal, next time around. Sales management changes like the winds on my home prairie state.
It's not just monthly or seasonal timing I'm talking here it's flat out unwilling to go as low as the time before.
Vespa dealers are a different thing I suppose but I've only been in one that closed anyway. The idea of getting to know the person your dealing with is just not possible most of the time at a car dealer is much of what I'm saying as they're gone, gone.

Might be time to shut this one down.

w.

Some people hate confrontation, so they don't negotiate on price at all, or very mildly.

Others love it, see it as a war where battles are won and lost.

But I always remind myself that a good deal is one where both parties walk away satisfied.

Years ago when my kids were young I was in the market for a new point and shoot film camera (remember those??) with a zoom. I was talking to a friend (actually my wife's friend's husband, he was in no way my buddy) and told him I liked his camera, wanted to get one like that, and asked him where he got it. The jerk wouldn't tell me where he got it... like in some way he got a good deal, but he wouldn't reveal his source, because then I would get the same deal without working for it. I ended up getting the same camera (without the date in the corner of the pictures). And I probably spent $10 to $25 more than he did on a $200 camera.

Maybe he paid too much for it and was embarrassed to tell you how much it cost him.

It's not a war for me, it's me trying to buy as cheap as I can w/o any battles, just me making choices, working hard for sources and being willing to walk away if the deals not there.
Your spot on the personality enters in to the equation on big ticket items. I'm not ever going to buy a vehicle from a "get your best price here" sales plan but I steered my SIL toward True Car for her last new car and she was happy to do that buy.
As for telling people price on a car or truck it wouldn't help most other buyers cause they're shopping a monthly payment or no money down deal-take one look at advertising and my point is made.

You're right about the monthly price.... I really don't understand that part of it, but that's how some people use their internal calculator. I'm a buy it and use it till it's worn out or no longer right for me.....

I did TrueCar last time I bought a new car for my daughter. It was a painless way to negotiate with a few dealers competing for your sale. Was it the best deal out there? Probably not, but it seemed better than what I might have been able to do myself. And the dealer we went to (Toyota) actually gave us like $300 off the TrueCar price. And we went from 3:00 signing up for TrueCar to walking into the dealer at 5:45 and signing off on paperwork by 7:30. And I got dinner in between... because food is better than most things in life.

Oh no, he got a good deal, because he bragged about how good of a deal he got. He was, and still is, a jerk. I'm not forced to hang out with him anymore, which is a good thing.

Being a dealer is not easy however it is rewarding to own a family business dealing with a product we love.

Some of the general blanket stereotypes used in this thread against basically all retailers is disheartening.

Some people visit the showroom to even be in this conversation once every 10 years, Dealers and staff have been showing up and grinding to pay for the lights for 6 days a week for 10-20 years to serve and have a partnership with you, the consumer.

The comment about paying a 16 year old $9.00 an hour to uncrate and set up a new bike? That crosses a line for me, an absolute insult to most in the industry and I resent it.

Yes, people buy new GTS for $8-9K everyday in this country. Nobody is under any obligation to do so however it is what they cost so respectfully don't shame your fellow rider that did. Maybe thank him/her for helping keep your local Vespa sales and service department open, you might need a valve stem someday.

SDG

That is a price match policy, matching a another sellers SALE price. That is not going in and trying ti buy it for lower than dealer invoice.

Or if they have a warranty issue, someone that pushed the dealer to the point they made no money is not going to have the selling dealer go out of their way to try and push warranty work threw to be covered, where a good customer that let the dealer make a reasonalbe profit may get more push back to the manufacture to cover the warranty.

Dealers have lots of pull with manufactures to get stuff covered that wouldn't normally be covered.

Yes, it's a price match policy which I used to represent shopping around, which was also discussed here about scooter shopping. And you took offense to people shopping looking for a good price. I guess you never saw a car or motorcycle dealer advertise that they'll meet or beat anyone's price? I have.

I never said anything about lower than dealer invoice, so please don't put words in my mouth or quote my post about a washer-dryer in order to argue with me about looking for a deal on a scooter. I also don't recall anyone else posting about lower than dealer invoice. I, and others, are only talking about a good, low price deal.

Now you're reaching, almost twisting it to that we want to steal the vehicle from the dealer, which was never suggested.