Modern Vespa

Ever since I could walk and talk, I've always loved cars. Way before I became a scooter fan, I was a "car guy". I did start riding on 2 wheels when I was about 5 years old but my first love were cars. Not anymore. With all the garbage electronics that now make up what cars actually are- I've come to hate them. I know I'm sounding my age but do we really need all these sensors and automatic this and automatic that? Does anyone know of any cars still sold in the U.S. that have the minimum "shit" on them? We bought a Camry LE a few years ago just to get the least amount of "shit"- still wanted a KEY to start it, etc. I'd like to get us down to one nice, simple car this year. I'd love to hear thoughts from others that may think my way. I know the manufacturers are touting all this as "safety" equipment and many are falling for it. My wife can't believe this "car guy" is thinking this way. So sick of all the useless electronics.....

Discuss.

Bob

so please don't be upset with me but I love all the safety features, the sensors, backup camera etc. Bluetooth for wireless phone etc. IN my opinion all of these are safety features. Now the cell phone, that can be a very dangerous thing when used improperly. I love my cell phone and use it often, except when I am driving. I do not text when driving, and I rarely use the phone but when I do it is handsfree. I also have keyless entry and love it, not having to take my key out is great. So in my opinion, it is not technology, but how it is used. I can't wait for cars that drive themselves as too many people drive like such jerks, taking the driving away from them is likely not a bad thing. but this is just my opinion.

larry

It's called a used car... find the sweet spot for tech, and start looking there.

My current cars are 2006 and 2007. Almost no tech in them, but annoyingly there are electronic odometers. I hate them, I love the mechanical numbers rolling over.

Anyway, the one thing that's missing from both my cars, but which I will enjoy this summer while I drive my daughter's car, a 2015, is Bluetooth connectivity to my phone... radio, podcasts, map/gps, etc.

Me? I'm going to be on the hunt for a 70s era square body chevy truck with a straight six and stick shift. About as simple as simple gets.

The thing is Larry, I haven't been nearly hit less and less as these safety features have become common. For most folks it must add to the distraction or lead to only relying on the tech. I do prefer simplicity, thus an air cooled scoot with no FI

When I bought my last bicycle it had those damn click shifters. I hated it!

I traded my Honda with a stick for an automatic after my wife had a meltdown when she had to drive it up the parking ramp at the mall. I've regretted that ever since.

Bob, I'm with you - I hate many of the damn gizmos on cars nowadays... Accordingly, my newest car is a 2003 VW Passat wagon - which I may drive until I can't anymore... I also have a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (235K miles) and a 1996 BMW Z3 (only 68K miles)... With all the individual car interest groups/clubs in the country & worldwide, I'm having trouble believing 'everyone' will be in a driverless car anytime soon...
They will be very useful for the elderly, feeble, timid, gadget-freaks and bar-hoppers of the world... Which might be a good reason to have one, as a backup...

You are right, the skill fun of driving in our society is fading due to automotive technology but the next time you are out riding your scooter look at the cars next to you and see how many people are texting, eating, shaving and applying make up while driving. If the car can sense an object and stop before the drive looks up from their phone may not be so bad especially if that object is me on a scooter...

As a Scoutmaster and avid camper, my truck is virtually a necessity, but I do get your point and largely agree with you. Often, less is more; the simpler the better.

I'm becoming a Grumpy Old Fart somewhat prematurely.

Yeah, tend to agree with you. Not a luddite, but really wonder how much I'm gaining sometimes with all of the extra stuff added.

I'm on my second car with calling via the dashboard, and I still bitch about the interface. I swear I was better just wearing an earpiece on my phone....and that's another story....

I still miss my old VWs- Rabbit and "82 Jetta. Especially the latter.

I remember when (not too long ago) BMW would not put cup holders in their cars because cars were made for DRIVING not to ride in and drink!! Now look at them.....

I worked in marketing for 30 years until recently and MUCH of what we are seeing a result of excellent marketing. I read some very interesting pieces on this subject and there is positive evidence regarding this.

I do feel like some old fart telling kids to get off my lawn when I think like this but we really don't NEED all this stuff. DRIVE your damn car- don't depend on anyone, or any THING to keep you safe.

My '02 Sentra has great brakes, steering, stereo (even by today's standards), and an air conditioner that would freeze you at the Equator, and gets really good gas mileage. What else do you need?

Maybe I AM getting old....

Bob

I'm a Luddite when it comes to my two wheelers. I ride a 1949 Harley-Davidson. No hydraulic brakes (fully mechanical), no instruments of any kind, not even an electric start. Seven wires in the entire wiring harness.

When it comes to cars... I like the new technology. I've bought two news cars (for me, not the wife) since 2015. Both were loaded with all the infotainment bells and whistles, most of the latest safety gear, and loads of horsepower.

I'm old enough to remember when they first introduced the computer in 1981. A huge milestone but all the manufacturers were absolutely silent about it. No badges, decals, or advertisement. Just an ambiguous check engine light. That's when they first took control of your car. Slowly but surely they've been tightening the screws ever since.

I love 'em all!

I love my push button start, keyless entry, back up camera (I still look over my shoulder and use the mirrors) mp3 playing, Bluetooth connected, ABS equipped, EFI run marvel of modern engineering but put me in a 60's bug with dual carbs (a girl's gotta have some fun ), blue-coil, AM radio, manual crank windows, exhaust-belching heater, with wonky wipers and I'm happily downshifting into and powering out of the curves!

How's that for a run-on sentence!

I'll allow it.

Whew, I feel better now.

Here ya go my next car when i get my new job. I'll be using it for shopping etc and a weekly 180km round trip to go running with a social group.



(The girl is only for scale)

3-cyl 1000cc, 5 -speed

- No ABS
- No power steering
- No airbags (although there is an airbag version)
- No reversing camera
- No electric mirrors
- Real key to start
-No automatic climate control
- No automatic wipers
- No electric tailgate
- No electric seats
- No headlight /interior light off delay
- No self dipping headlights
- No lane departure warning
- No Bluetooth (although does have 12v socket)
- No SatNav


Does have
- AC
- Electric windows but only in the front?
- Key-less entry if one opts for security Immobilizer
- Does have an automated manual transmission which I will get because I've
never had one and my wife may wish to drive it.

Think of it as a later day Citroen 2CV or Classic Fiat 500.

$10,000 or less.

DIY guys can even order parts direct from the manufacturer on-line via from the detailed parts list.

Although it should be noted that the Japanese domestic newer version is all singing, all dancing including collision avoidance auto braking, lane departure etc.

I have pretty much the car you describe but driving it in modern traffic is painful. Perhaps mine just needs tuning but "powering out the curves" isn't a phrase I'd use. I keep it because it was my first car and I like the look of the thing but I'd prefer modern tech, as long as it's built by the (japs and not the french).

I used to have a VW pickup. Even powering out of its own way was a stretch. I had dual port heads, over-sized barrels and a cam but think only a single carb. It is a long time ago
But is was fine for it's prime purpose. Collecting firewood.
Oh and had a gasoline burning heater good for "Up-North"

Even had a latter water-cooled Vanagon and that wasn't much better but nice to drive and did mostly everything.

Sold my last truck last year. 2006 dodge cummins one ton short bed srw. No power windows or locks, no cruise, rode like a tractor, towed great.bought a newer jeep with all the power stuff, easy to use and drive,,,,,damn i miss my truck!!

The thing about a horse and cart is that the horse can find its own way home if the driver cannot. Ever watched a milkman deliver? He just clicks his tongue and the horse moves on to the next house and stops. Plus there is plenty for the rose bushes.

I share the sentiment of the OP. My 2 vehicles are polar opposites. Our Prius C is my wife's daily driver and is a rolling science experiment. It gets 50mpg but it drives like a washing machine. I work in NYC and commute by train so my car choice was more about utility so I found a high mileage Chevy Colorado pickup that is everything the Prius isn't. It's a pig on gas but completely simple inside, no power locks, windows or anything.

The kicker though is that I still had problems with the truck due to a faulty imobilizer system. Even "simple" vehicles today are littered with buggy ECUs and more sensors than the original moon lander.

Funny thing, I watch every episode of Wheeler Dealers and Fast and Loud.

w.

It's more fun to drive/ride a slow (insert vehicle of choice) fast than a fast (insert vehicle of choice) slow.

Android Auto/Apple Car Play FTW.. I have a 2017 Chevrolet Spark with some tech but nothing crazy, Backup camera, Onstar, Android auto, Auto lights, Sat Radio

I love all those features! Then again.. i'm a millennial so of course I would


My 2 cents, you want a simple no frills cars get a $9,999 Nissan Micra (for Canadians) or the Spark LS....talk about simple! crank windows, plastic everywhere, good old fashion radio from the 90s

When I hear "they don't make them like they used to" referring to cars, I follow up with a "thank God!". My 2017 F150 crew cab with a 2.7L V6 gets close to 25 MPG on the highway, rides like a luxury vehicle, and runs the 1/4 mile faster than I could in my 1992 Mustang 5.0L. I'll agree all of the required safety feautures could be toned down a bit, but I love today's vehicles.

I like tech in anything.
People forget when getting 50,000 miles on a car before it needed a transmission or new motor was good.
Now if a car is well maintained a 100,000 miles is just broken in.

I have learned that modern, owner written, car reviews are more about gizmos than actual car related features-in the way i think of cars/trucks. MC's are similar as many riders are posers (that ought to bring it on?) in the same way people buy Jeeps and ride the burbs in them or strip malls outside ski resorts,etc.. Lots of gizmos are coupled with features I want so they can sell stuff that costs little and makes people happy on both ends, not me!!!
That said, I still am a car guy and don't hate cars per se just the marketing and the gizmos I have pay for but don't want.
Remembering when PU's all drove like meat wagons. Then there's A/C, power steering, and crappy brakes and much much more not that long ago. I remember riding from KS to CA in the back seat of 1940's/50's cars with everything the OP wants in a car? I have zero interest in moving to Asia to own a stripped down car.
Like suggested above-buy an old (either a POS or a collector car) and be happy. Ebay sells what you need everyday. We watch Jay Leno's car show and even he features some older cars that I do not want to own.
Probably my most stupoid years of car ownership were those when I was infatuated with British cars, WHEW! Talk about a love, hate relationship...
Me thinks the car mfg.'s should be required to put the safest brakes, headlights and so on on each vehicle they make and sell. Lets not go marketing crazy with peoples lives? Then you have stupidity like no htd seats unless you buy something totally unrelated on a 4x4 and more crazy marketing tactics. it also includes overpriced paint colors and not this paint with that leather and it goes on forever with the modern packaging of accessories and packages.
The "tech" that turns me on is not the tech that interests webtech. I have a technical degree which is not his ballywag at all. Mine is in technology that mostly proceeds the main puter revolution. I will add that I am not the guy I worked with who bought no car that had a puter running it! He was a great mechanic/teacher with VG education and experience but lived by Fred Flintstone car rules. I float both directions and cuss stuff that tears up on those cars that webtech says run & run. Go to most any dealer and look on the back lot at the cars they cannot make run. Auctions get them too-whole rows of sweet rides that no worky.

I like some of the convenience features but not most. My daily driver is 1983 El Camino. It was loaded when new so it has power windows and locks, AC and cruise. All of which I would not be without. I added keyless entry, which I also like. I am still using the original AM FM cassette radio. I have a Bluetooth adapter that looks like a cassette tape so I can listen to podcasts and music on my phone.

There are only a few other features that I would like to have. I plan to ditch the carburetor for fuel injection. A backup camera would be nice but there's no good place to put the screen. Adaptive cruise would be great but that just ain't gonna happen. Niether are airbags but I am considering rear disc brakes. I would have prefered a 4-speed manual transmission over the automatic but those were very rare.

I refuse to ever buy a car with a menu on a touch screen.

Could not agree more. To me, the height of stupidity is the button that you push that lifts the tailgate. Push another button and it lowers, via (no doubt) a complex series of servo motors and electronics. Because...why? Pushing a button that mechanically releases a latch is too simple? And how great that someone can take control of your vehicle with a smart phone. Some people actually enjoy driving. They don't want a computer to do it. Technology is not good or bad. It's what we make of it. I can't be the only one who longs for a user-serviceable, long lasting car that is reliable, durable, affordable, and fun to drive with an acceptable level of safety and a minimum of gew gaws and complexity. But it seems as if needlessly complex, soon to be obsolete technology is foisted upon us. It's ironic. Today we're constantly told to reduce, reuse, and do without, but it was my grandparent's generation that actually did that. Today we live in a disposable world. When's the last time anyone here had a pair of shoes re-soled? I live in a country where a huge percentage of the population is overweight or obese, and the task of winding up an automobile window is seemingly too onerous a task. Can there be a connection?

I don't get the whole 'new cars are not user serviceable' thing. I have done all my own work for about 15 years now, on newer cars. As to the rest, my 2009 Ford Focus is a decent car, and has ~255,000 miles on it. Been in a couple pretty good crashes, too, and managed to survive.

Oh, and the last time I had soles replaced was probably 16-17 years ago. Since then I moved on to shoes that tend to wear out on the top side, for some reason.

Power steering was a God sent thing when I lived in my native Kansas as the wind made hwy driving nasty w/o it. Today's cars are very long winded indeed. Very typical to go well into 200k or so before they become a nuisance.

shoes re-soled was an issue ~ a hundred years ago. I've got these pricey Merrell hiking boots that have become my senior citizen work boots. No break now days either! Even military boots are VG these days-I wear them all winter.
As for servicing new vehicles-many things have been turned into either dealer only maintenance/repair or done away with toward throw away parts.
The last car I rebuilt I spent over $400 just refilling the tranny via a dealer and I'm a retired auto tech teacher that knows mostly what to do. Thus it's true that the very basics are done by shade trees even now days but it's very limited overall what can be done or needs to be done. More I could say on this whole subject but even on a rainy day I'm too lazy to type it all.

I too do all my own wrenching. In the last year I installed new CV joints, a new steering rack, new timing belt, shocks and struts, and much more in my Acura. I never asserted that a modern car is NOT serviceable, but you would have to be deliberately obtuse to deny the fact that a 2018 automobile is not much more complex and less user friendly to the home mechanic than a 55 Chevy. I'm not a Luddite. I appreciate air bags, AC, and my variable valve timing. But this "progress" comes at a cost, and there is no doubt that modern man produces a lot more trash than he used to, despite the fact that he professes to have gone green. I'm all for a car that uses less fuel and pollutes less. But IMO we are seeing needless complexity and if we continue to go down this road driverless cars (with "life fill" fluids) will rule the road. And for some (e.g. me) that will be a shame. Oh, and you should try a nice pair of Red Wing Beckmans. Their topsides seem to last darn near forever, for some reason.

Ah yes I've owned a few SAABs in my time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqguq1evb-M