@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4201
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4201
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Thanks for the summary AJ - and happy to see you got it dialed in! Clap emoticon Clap emoticon
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
OP
@autojack avatar
UTC

Addicted
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 697
Location: Melbourne
 
Addicted
@autojack avatar
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 697
Location: Melbourne
UTC quote
Here's a video I made while the scooter was all opened up, with some tips on this process.

https://youtu.be/X9cTLqjFxFo
⬆️    About 2 years elapsed    ⬇️
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Resurrecting an old thread there. But this one is incredibly helpful.

I am doing the same project. I have a couple of questions.

I thought about just making the bike a German spec - those are close to the 1974. The only differences:
1. The ignition switch under the seat is a kill button, not a switch.
- It looks like this would require running the dual red lead from the battery to shut off the electrical

2. The switch configuration is the same as the German one, with this add-on turn signal on the shifter tube.
- So guess I would just need to run wires from the switch to the cowls for the rear ones

3. There's a front brake switch, which would need a wire run from the foot pedal to the headset?

4. The wires being different colors are ok, maybe, if they all connect to the ones on the stator junction
- but. Confused about the two yellow leads. Would I need to add a yellow from there to the rectifier?

My other option is to build a new harness, which sounds hard!

I have the old one, but it has repairs, where the wires are no longer the right colors.

I guess I could also take apart the old one and reconstruct it wire-by-wire, add new heat shrink, basically build one.

I thought about just building a euro-spec bike. Seems like it would have been easier. But the US models with all the US components are so rare now. Seemed worth keeping the rareness. Even though the Euro ones looked more sleek with the bar ends and bigger headlight.
@scooterist avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1548
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
@scooterist avatar
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1548
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Good luck!
⚠️ Last edited by scooterist on UTC; edited 1 time
@scooterist avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1548
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
@scooterist avatar
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1548
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
Scooter emoticon
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
This, I think, will be the hardest part of this project.

Rebuilding a wiring loom that was never that great to begin with.
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2537
Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2537
Location: Siam
UTC quote
The harness they sell for a GS160 non-battery has totally wrong connectors for the junction box. Just saying. It was just some Grabor junk.

After reading all this, I think the best way is homemade.
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
It seems like it. This one ended up having to be re-engineered.

Plus side: the whole bike is apart.
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
hjo wrote:
Resurrecting an old thread there. But this one is incredibly helpful.

I am doing the same project. I have a couple of questions.

I thought about just making the bike a German spec - those are close to the 1974. The only differences:
1. The ignition switch under the seat is a kill button, not a switch.
- It looks like this would require running the dual red lead from the battery to shut off the electrical

2. The switch configuration is the same as the German one, with this add-on turn signal on the shifter tube.
- So guess I would just need to run wires from the switch to the cowls for the rear ones

3. There's a front brake switch, which would need a wire run from the foot pedal to the headset?

4. The wires being different colors are ok, maybe, if they all connect to the ones on the stator junction
- but. Confused about the two yellow leads. Would I need to add a yellow from there to the rectifier?

My other option is to build a new harness, which sounds hard!

I have the old one, but it has repairs, where the wires are no longer the right colors.

I guess I could also take apart the old one and reconstruct it wire-by-wire, add new heat shrink, basically build one.

I thought about just building a euro-spec bike. Seems like it would have been easier. But the US models with all the US components are so rare now. Seemed worth keeping the rareness. Even though the Euro ones looked more sleek with the bar ends and bigger headlight.
I'd add to/modify the harness as needed.

1) A kill button/switch just needs to ground the coil, so you don't need more than a single wire to the junction box.
2) You can also connect the rear signal wires to the their corresponding fronts. Save the switch getting overcrowded.
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
I can try to work with the existing one.

Looks like it's all there. The previous owner labeled all the connections. And replaced some wires.

Seems like they should probably all be replaced. But maybe possible to do them one-by-one.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
Joined: UTC
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Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
hjo wrote:
I can try to work with the existing one.

Looks like it's all there. The previous owner labeled all the connections. And replaced some wires.

Seems like they should probably all be replaced. But maybe possible to do them one-by-one.
I was suggesting to work off of a new German market harness and add to/modify it for your bug-eyed bike. Laying the new harness and the old side by side may provide clues, cut lengths, etc.

Is your key switch on the headset or under the seat? If under the seat ignore my previous post.
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
BTW if you're having trouble finding a wiring diagram to make sense of various connections, you're very close to a US market PX.
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
it's a 1974, which I think was just US market that one year.

Switch under the seat, turn signals, battery, and the add-on indicator switch on the shifter.

The german one is really similar, but it has:
- a kill button where the switch goes
- no rear indicators
- no front brake switch (which is super janky, a rod threaded into the lever)
- apparently no fuse box

It's actually pretty similar to the German one. But some colors and are different.

I'll order it. It will take a month to arrive, but might be able to use it with just slight modification.

The US 1974 is so awkward, but it's also very rare, and I have all the parts, so seemed worth preserving.
Mine
Mine
German one.
German one.
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Now I'm questioning.

The euro spec bikes look nicer maybe, but the oddity of the American one is kind of charming.

They did weird things to meet DOT regulations. The headlight needed to be sealed beam, so they used a smallframe headset. The indicators are awkward, but Piaggio stamped brackets and original.
American
American
German
German
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
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Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
Joined: UTC
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UTC quote
This should arrive within a week:

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/wiring-loom-bgm-original-vespa-rally200-electronic-german-versions-with-battery-indicator-and-ignition-lock-sc5001?number=SC5001

"If I were you" I'd shelf the US market parts for posterity and go German spec. Those dodgy cowl connectors alone would be enough for me to bail out on the bug eyes.
Euro non-DOT tail light looks much better as well, IMO.
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
I'm considering it.

I'd have to fabricate the cowl connectors. I have the ones in the cowls, but the connectors are a modified version of the rear brake switch, with a metal peg (seems easy to do).

I don't think anyone has done a US-spec Rally restoration in decades. All the ones Bar Italia does are Euro ones. They reproduced the headset.

The euro parts are all easy to find.

I have all the CEV ones. I found NOS turn signals. But could save them.

The Hella bar end lights are as awkward as the US ones. But there are really subtle LED ones (though look very modern)
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
These
These
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
Okay, those NOS signals look kinda like game changers.

BTW I keep imagining the conversation between DOT and the Italians, re the tail light.
"You want us to WHAT?"
In DOT's defense, drivers of American cars at that time could hardly see past their 10ft hoods.

Have you seen Robot's video? He goes over some of the electrical issues there, as well as the cowl switches and other fun stuff.

@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Thanks! I'll watch!

I had a 1974 Super. That year was terrible for electrics. It was all hacks to comply with new DOT regulations.

The whole system runs off a battery, even the headlight. And on mine, the battery would drain when you ran the headlight for long periods, and all the lights die.

And the turn signals and brake light come on very slow. Even slower with the headlight on.

It's kind of a mess.

My bike is identical to Robot's. Same color/year.
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4169
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4169
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
You can always 3D print the switches if you have the inner parts…

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:224157
@hjo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1845
Location: San Francisco, CA
UTC quote
Oh, that's amazing!

I can take a look at the ones I have. I am pretty sure they are identical to the brake switch, but instead of a plastic peg, there's a metal one that makes contact with a brass plate on the cowl (which I have).

I only have one of the original cowls. The other is a later style with the same connection as the PX, in the guide peg.
SaFiS wrote:
You can always 3D print the switches if you have the inner parts…

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:224157
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1827
Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
I imagine replacing the plastic button of an old style "opener" brake switch with a modified brass bolt of the same diameter being an option.
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