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jess wrote:
I am firmly in the pro-SmartMeter camp. Sending around meter readers to read the digits is as quaint as the Milk Man delivering milk.
Or just plain drinking milk. Bleh emoticon
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Madison Sully wrote:
Or just plain drinking milk. Bleh emoticon
I like milk. In my latte. Drinking one right now.
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jess wrote:
I like milk. In my latte. Drinking one right now.
Sure, mix it thoroughly with something else and I'm on board. But the sheer quantity delivered by a milk-man? Blech. It's like coke. Hate the stuff straight up. Add ice and rum, well, then it's quite fine.

Is it odd that I then go on to say I like cheese in most all of its forms? What The? emoticon
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jess wrote:
I am firmly in the pro-SmartMeter camp. Sending around meter readers to read the digits is as quaint as the Milk Man delivering milk.
and dangerous

Police investigating after Energex-contracted meter reader mauled to death by dogs in Logan, south of Brisbane
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-03/man-mauled-to-death-by-dogs-logan/101730890
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Madison Sully wrote:
Is it odd that I then go on to say I like cheese in most all of its forms? What The? emoticon
Well, you are from Wisconsin, so this goes without saying.
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jess wrote:
I am firmly in the pro-SmartMeter camp. Sending around meter readers to read the digits is as quaint as the Milk Man delivering milk.
I remember those and party lines.
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steelbytes wrote:
and dangerous

Police investigating after Energex-contracted meter reader mauled to death by dogs in Logan, south of Brisbane
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-03/man-mauled-to-death-by-dogs-logan/101730890
Reminds me of the time probably 30 years ago. First wife was home when the meter reader pulled in the driveway. She opened the door and let out Husky Shepard mix who had to be at least 85 pound out and said "Go get him!"

Dog missed both steps by the back door and took off at full tilt for the guy. He just managed to jump back in the truck and close the door before the dog got to him!

Funny thing is this meter reader was a friend of ours and had been over to our house on a few occasions and knew the dog to be very friendly. The not so funny thing at least for a few seconds is that just 24 hours earlier he had been attacked by a not friendly dog and had to go to the hospital ER for the bite!

To make it even better a day or two latter we were at a party at the meter reader's house where at least half the people knew our dog so it was good for a laugh among most of them.

Not trying to make light out of the guy who got mauled hope those responsible for the dogs that did it are charged.
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I think it's because I'd much rather be telling them how much I've used with an analogue meter rather than them telling me what I've used with a digital.

On certain tariffs they have the ability to limit your power use if they feel the need to.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/5/23337864/xcel-locked-out-customers-smart-thermostats-colorado-heatwave

So they can control your thermostat if they want.
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Bill Dog wrote:
I think it's because I'd much rather be telling them how much I've used with an analogue meter rather than them telling me what I've used with a digital.
Human error introduced by meter readers is common, and makes the news regularly when someone receives an electric (or water) bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Bill Dog wrote:
On certain tariffs they have the ability to limit your power use if they feel the need to.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/5/23337864/xcel-locked-out-customers-smart-thermostats-colorado-heatwave

So they can control your thermostat if they want.
You're conflating smart thermostats with smart meters. Not the same thing at all.

It's far more likely that the power company will shut down a portion of the grid under emergency circumstances -- as has happened in California. This isn't anything to do with smart meters, but with the power grid itself.
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Yes, but I'm giving them the meter readings not a quaint meter reader and I'm more invested in giving the correct information than they are.

I can't remember the last time I saw anyone collecting meter rates since the new fangled Internet thing came about.

Surely if you have control over someone's Thermostat that has a direct bearing on the Smart Meter by default ? Cause and effect.

It's a fair point though - What's worse, having limited power or no power at all ?

Just under a 5th of new cars being sold in California are electric and the grid can't handle it.

Move to Texas ? Oh hang on.
⚠️ Last edited by Bill Dog on UTC; edited 1 time
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Bill Dog wrote:
Surely if you have control over someone's Thermostat that has a bearing on the Smart Meter by default ? Cause and effect.
If you have a smart thermostat that is beholden to the power company (why someone would want this I do not know) then it doesn't matter what kind of meter you have.

Again, you're conflating two different things that aren't actually related in any meaningful way.

From the article you cited:
Quote:
All of the customers affected had enrolled in an energy-saving program, called AC Rewards, that's meant to ease the strain on the power grid during heatwaves. Xcel can adjust those customers' smart thermostats when demand gets so high that there might not be enough supply to meet it. Xcel offers a one-time $100 credit on electricity bills upon signing up, and $25 a year afterward for participation.
All of those customers actually enrolled in a program specifically to grant the power company control in exchange for a $100 credit.

So, yeah. Not about the smart meter at all.
⚠️ Last edited by jess on UTC; edited 2 times
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Bill Dog wrote:
Yes, but I'm giving them the meter readings not a quaint meter reader and I'm more invested in giving the correct information than they are.

I can't remember the last time I saw anyone collecting meter rates since the new fangled Internet thing came about.

Surely if you have control over someone's Thermostat that has a direct bearing on the Smart Meter by default ? Cause and effect.

It's a fair point though - What's worse, having limited power or no power at all ?

Just under a 5th of new cars being sold in California are electric and the grid can't handle it.

Move to Texas ? Oh hang on.
Does the meter reader drive an electric car?

Strokes beard.
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I'd be really disappointed if they didn't as it would be an ideal marketing tool.

That's why I included this bit - On certain tariffs they have the ability to limit your power use if they feel the need to.
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I don't know how this works / will work in the US, but looking from over here, I can see Bill's point of linking smart meters & household heating systems.

Smart meters, or ARM (Automatic Meter Reading) meters have a mandatory (within EU) relay connection build in them. This has been used to shift comsumption to night hours especially in the houses that have electric heating systems.

Technically this relay can be operated by the distribution company. It is typically connected to heating and hot water heating systems - not to the actual room thermostats, it is just connecting and disconnecting the main power to the heating systems if this has been allowed within the customer contract.

EU is right now, officially starting in 2023, moving to faster smart metering cycles. Instead of the 1h meter reading interval in use today, the new one will be 15min. This enables pretty fast electricity balance calculations throughout the whole country, and between countries. At the same time, the relay & smart meter data specs have been revised, enabling more accurate control at the household side and also giving more data to local 'smart home' systems and such.

...and actually, this is not pissing me off, so mayby a wrong topic
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jess wrote:
Human error introduced by meter readers is common, and makes the news regularly when someone receives an electric (or water) bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
This happened to me but with natural gas instead of electricity.

I received a bill that was about 8 times what I normally pay. I was pretty sure it was a mistake so I called and they said yes, someone had read the meter wrong.

They said they would correct it but it would mean about 2 hours on the phone and would take about 2 weeks to get a refund.

I asked if I could just pay the bill and have free gas until my account was balanced. They said that would be fine and I didn't have to do anything else.

The funny thing is that right after that the price of gas shot up for ... reasons. Since I had already paid for most of a years worth of gas at the lower rate I came out money ahead.
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Bill Dog wrote:
Yes, but I'm giving them the meter readings not a quaint meter reader and I'm more invested in giving the correct information than they are.
Were I your electricity provider, I'd send a meter reader around occasionally (1x/year or 1x/quarter) to confirm that your self-reported readings are truly accurate.

While you have a vested interest in making sure your usage isn't overreported, they have a vested interest in making sure your usage isn't underreported.
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They would be welcome to visit but the numbers would still check out as I'm not a very good bullshitter.

Maybe the Smart Meters are being offered because they simply don't trust us to send the right amounts ?

As I said to the nice lady who asked why I didn't want one - Do I have to have one ? No you don't. In that case I won't.

Even though I've given them a reason to decline they still send me a questionnaire and more offers to fit one.
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We had a smartmeter for both gas and electricity installed a few years ago. we have gas and electric from the same company and we got a joined up bill/energy comparisons year on year and a fair amount of reporting on energy usage.

May 2022, our energy company 'migrated' us to their new billing platform and its not compatible with our smart meter - the meter is a smets1 and the move to the new platform is the equivalent of changing supplier. It was also the kind of migration where you don't move any historical data over to the new platform.

The situation at the moment is that we have to manually give a meter reading. We have quarterly billing and cant have monthly billing because the account was 'migrated' and the option for monthly isnt available on their new billing platform. They also can't give us a date on when our meter is going to be remotely updated with new software that will make it compatible with the new platform, apparantly they are doing it regionally.
⚠️ Last edited by Matchlessman on UTC; edited 1 time
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Exhibit B.
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We have had a smart meter for a few years now with no complaints. They don't have any "control" over the meter other than reading it remotely making a great option for them to eliminate people make their business more efficient.

They've been marketing the smart thermostats, but that is too much like submitting to our robot overlords. I am all for helping out, but I don't want them throttling my A/C because somewhere downtown an office building with a billion cubic feet of wasted space needs to keep their lobby cool. Was that ranty?
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seamus26 wrote:
They don't have any "control" over the meter other than reading it remotely

Can they bill you different rates based on time of day?

Theres a scheme over here at the moment where if you reduce usage between certain times, they pay you a small amount of money. I'm not sure of the details because you can only sign up to it if you have a smart meter. Apparantly the smart meter that my energy supplier installed that no longer works with their billing platform doesnt qualify.

No, you weren't ranty.
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So it sort of feels like a bribe then ?

Not ranty enough
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The key wording seems to be reducing amount of energy used. We'd probably end up getting a couple of pence, we use as little as we can anyway now.
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It's an interesting concept isn't it. A Power Company encourages you to use less power.
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I'm sure they still make money out of it.
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Matchlessman wrote:
Can they bill you different rates based on time of day?

Theres a scheme over here at the moment where if you reduce usage between certain times, they pay you a small amount of money. I'm not sure of the details because you can only sign up to it if you have a smart meter. Apparantly the smart meter that my energy supplier installed that no longer works with their billing platform doesnt qualify.

No, you weren't ranty.
Yes, in fact they do, but I opted in. I charge my EV only during off peak hours (11pm to 7am) and reduce our consumption between the hours of 2pm and 7pm. I used our manually programmable unconnected thermostat to adjust the temps during peak hours. Here's what I found.

Instead of running the AC between 2-7pm I just let the house coast. (FTR, our house is a 1952 brick colonial without much insulation. Windows have been updated.) What I found was we remained comfortable and the AC unit doesn't run during this time. The effect was, comparing last year to this year, not only did we spend a lot less on energy, we actually used less energy even figuring in charging the car.

Bottom line is, we added an EV and are using less energy because we are just paying more attention.
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Bill Dog wrote:
It's an interesting concept isn't it. A Power Company encourages you to use less power.
This has actually been the case for many decades in the US. Building out capacity on the power grid -- both the power plants but also the transmission infrastructure -- is extremely costly. Reducing usage is far more cost-effective for everyone concerned, and it generally reduces pollution, too.

What's not to like?
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You are more than welcome to call me a Luddite but I'm just not a believer in because something is new it's necessarily good.

Don't get me started on Alexa.
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I have a smart electric meter, a smart gas meter, and a smart thermostat. None of these have any ability to be turned off by the power company. All have worked quite well for years and years.

When we moved into this house, the previous owner had set up the AC to be governed by the power company (during power emergencies) via a separate box on the side of the house. I was under no obligation to keep it, as I was not a party to the agreement, so I removed it.
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Bill Dog wrote:
Don't get me started on Alexa.
Alexa sucks. Actually, most voice assistants suck.

My main use case for Siri is to ask her to start a timer when I am watering the trees in front of the house.
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I find it a little creepy that you'd let "someone" listen to all of your conversations just in case "their" name comes up.

And it's a strange phenomena that both of our countries have built a huge and efficient road network but not an effective power grid to match.

Oddly enough I'm all for using less power but we have an uncanny habit of reproducing which means the demand will always increase.
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Bill Dog wrote:
I find it a little creepy that you'd let "someone" listen to all of your conversations just in case "their" name comes up.
The "Hey, Siri" trigger is done entirely on the device. At least in the case of Siri, nobody is listening to all of my conversations, until I explicitly say "Hey, Siri".
Bill Dog wrote:
And it's a strange phenomena that both of our countries have built a huge and efficient road network but not an effective power grid to match.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I've tried many times to get a smart gas meter fitted to my flat in the UK - there have been five visits so far. Each time they say "Oh, it's such an old model I don't have a kit for that, we'll book another appointment" <<< which they don't of course.

So I have to rely on my son to send me monthly readings so I can enter them into the supplier's database. Of course this means I have to remind him every month - which means he has to pay attention to email, whatsapp and his phone (I request on all three). It's 50:50 whether I get a reading in time.

PITA.
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What's with all these new fangled "conveniences" people talk about? I say, Flibblty-Flee! Back in MY day we didn't need no fancy plumbing. We carried our water a mile uphill from the river in buckets on our heads. No pipes or sinks or mamby-pamby toilets. When we felt the call of nature we just went outside and crapped in a hole in the ground, we did.

Furnaces? Bah! Bunch of pansies! When it got cold we'd all just huddle around the burn barrel in the middle of our one room house. We burned trees and tires and any dead animals we could find to keep warm. Oh, we stunk to high Heaven, but so did everyone else, so we didn't pay no mind.

Radios? Those new fangled gizmos are the debil's work! Disembodied voices coming out of a box on the table? Who knows where those voices are coming from or the ideas they put in your head? If we wanted entertainment we just sang. Or screamed or sobbed, depending on how cold or hungry we were, but it was a good sound and we were happy.

Kids nowadays are all caught up in this new fangled gobbeltygook! Progress? I say fiddlesticks! We may have been cold and hungry screaming hole crappers, but things were simpler then and that's the way we liked it!

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@jess avatar
UTC

Petty Tyrant
0:7 And counting
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Petty Tyrant
@jess avatar
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Location: Bay Area, California
UTC quote
The problem I have with modern-day luddites (and why I will never, ever stop making fun of them) is that the base level of technology they are willing to accept is almost always a sliding scale, usually based on either their own childhood, or maybe one generation prior.

Very few modern-day luddites ever want to go back to living in caves and eating only what they can kill. I mean, there are people who do subscribe to that idea, but we don't call them luddites -- we call them eccentric billionaires.

And we still point and laugh.

When a self-proclaimed luddite can articulate a rational reason why technology X is acceptable, but technology Y is not, and that reason isn't rooted in a time relative to their own birth, then maybe I will take them seriously.

Until then, I will just point and laugh.
@monogodo avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
2017 Piaggio BV350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1086
Location: Irving, TX
 
Molto Verboso
@monogodo avatar
2017 Piaggio BV350
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1086
Location: Irving, TX
UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
I find it a little creepy that you'd let "someone" listen to all of your conversations just in case "their" name comes up.
I've never been able to get "Hey Siri" to work on my iPhone or iPad.

The other night my wife and I were watching YouTube videos, and the phrase "Hey Siri" was said. My iPad woke up and had the Siri symbol in the corner. We ended up re-watching it for some reason, and my iPad again woke up when the presenter said "Hey Siri". I then said, "cut it out." and Siri replied (onscreen only), "sorry."
@jess avatar
UTC

Petty Tyrant
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Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
@jess avatar
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
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Location: Bay Area, California
UTC quote
monogodo wrote:
I've never been able to get "Hey Siri" to work on my iPhone or iPad.
Sounds like you didn't go through the quick voice training step?
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
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eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20546
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
How does an electronic device that relies on listening for its own name to operate not have to listen to everything else up to that point it hears it's own name ?
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43708
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43708
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
How does an electronic device that relies on listening for its own name to operate not have to listen to everything else up to that point it hears it's own name ?
Quite. But then I come from an era when privacy was still attainable - and I don't apologise for wishing to retain as much as I want to.
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