OP
@ph0ngvu avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
 
Hooked
@ph0ngvu avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
UTC quote
I've wanting to rebuild this sprint 1968 engine for a few summer already and finally it is in the front of the line.


A buddy asked to document it but it's quite terrible. Lost some of first few snaps of disassemble, cleaning, remove old bearings, putting new bearings and missing some steps during the process.
Choice between Indian or Japanese bearing.
Choice between Indian or Japanese bearing.
seal / gasket set. Have to buy the cylinder gasket separately since it's 3 ports instead of 2
seal / gasket set. Have to buy the cylinder gasket separately since it's 3 ports instead of 2
original Piaggio pistons. One of them is 0Step
original Piaggio pistons. One of them is 0Step
some special tools
some special tools
got the bearings in.
got the bearings in.
got primary gears in.
got primary gears in.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
testing crank.
testing crank.
installed crank
installed crank
puller pulled crank in place.
puller pulled crank in place.
replaced cross, keep the gears as they are still in great condition. Assembled cross, & gear
replaced cross, keep the gears as they are still in great condition. Assembled cross, & gear
installed shaft
installed shaft
looking good.
looking good.
old kickstart gear looks worn
old kickstart gear looks worn
new piaggio is ready to use.
new piaggio is ready to use.
reinstall kickstart quadrant
reinstall kickstart quadrant
put on gasket and assemble the case.
put on gasket and assemble the case.
⚠️ Last edited by ph0ngvu on UTC; edited 2 times
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9201
Location: Nashville

92 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9201
Location: Nashville

92 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Your engine stand is brilliant!

I need to head over to Home Depot anyway, but I'll definitely by stopping by the plumbing department while I'm there.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4124
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4124
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Wow, excellent pics PV! I'm glad you posted them. And yes, the engine stand looks fantastic. That's some serious engine rebuilding. Good job! Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon

That engine stand has got me thinking about diy stands that aren't welded. Hmmm...
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8515
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8515
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
Nice job! How did you come to have all those pistons?

I hope you removed the cover/seal from the clutch side bearing? Seeing it has the proper seal on the other side you want some lubrication to get in there.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9492
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9492
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Oh, how I love seeing battered old motors being lovingly coaxed back to life. You are doing it first class w/ all quality new bearings etc.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I've always wondered about those yellow inserts in the main crank bores. I always thought they were brass and yours look to be, but I scrapped a motor that had plated iron inserts. They weren't dimpled all around in the case like yours, seemed original and I've seen enough of them to think they are maybe factory items in some motors?

Anybody know?
I have a magnet stuck to one half here
and the two brake posts w/ anchor pins
all are from a dead motor half that I melted
I have a magnet stuck to one half here and the two brake posts w/ anchor pins all are from a dead motor half that I melted
you can see the gray color and I think it's iron rather than steel because it's brittle & seeing the grain structure
you can see the gray color and I think it's iron rather than steel because it's brittle & seeing the grain structure
@autojack avatar
UTC

Addicted
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 695
Location: Melbourne
 
Addicted
@autojack avatar
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 695
Location: Melbourne
UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
Nice job! How did you come to have all those pistons?

I hope you removed the cover/seal from the clutch side bearing? Seeing it has the proper seal on the other side you want some lubrication to get in there.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
I thought the point of a sealed bearing was that it didn't need external lubrication.
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4090
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4090
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
These are not sealed bearings. They're polyamide ball caged bearings (instead of steel caged). They're supposed to be quieter, stiffer and more flexible...
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@gickspeed avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2000
Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Ossessionato
@gickspeed avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2000
Location: Racing Capital of the World
UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
Oh, how I love seeing battered old motors being lovingly coaxed back to life. You are doing it first class w/ all quality new bearings etc.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I've always wondered about those yellow inserts in the main crank bores. I always thought they were brass and yours look to be, but I scrapped a motor that had plated iron inserts. They weren't dimpled all around in the case like yours, seemed original and I've seen enough of them to think they are maybe factory items in some motors?

Anybody know?
The dimples are not standard; someone has done this to stop the bearing from moving in the brass sleeve. I often see this on Asian bikes; this area is worn out. The right way to resolve this issue is to machine new brass sleeves and install. The early bikes had brass sleeves and later went to steel. Hope all that helps.
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8515
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8515
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
These are not sealed bearings. They're polyamide ball caged bearings (instead of steel caged). They're supposed to be quieter, stiffer and more flexible...
So wouldn't you want the 'open' side towards the lubrication?
@autojack avatar
UTC

Addicted
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 695
Location: Melbourne
 
Addicted
@autojack avatar
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 695
Location: Melbourne
UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
SaFiS wrote:
These are not sealed bearings. They're polyamide ball caged bearings (instead of steel caged). They're supposed to be quieter, stiffer and more flexible...
So wouldn't you want the 'open' side towards the lubrication?
I got it now. In the 7th photo of the original post, it looks like there is a gap between the black cage bit and the outer bearing race. So oil can get past that.
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2536
Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2536
Location: Siam
UTC quote
autojack wrote:
Ginch wrote:
SaFiS wrote:
These are not sealed bearings. They're polyamide ball caged bearings (instead of steel caged). They're supposed to be quieter, stiffer and more flexible...
So wouldn't you want the 'open' side towards the lubrication?
I got it now. In the 7th photo of the original post, it looks like there is a gap between the black cage bit and the outer bearing race. So oil can get past that.
What's the point of even keeping the black seal on, when it's on the inside facing the gears? Why not just take it out?
@autojack avatar
UTC

Addicted
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 695
Location: Melbourne
 
Addicted
@autojack avatar
'76 Vespa Rally 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 695
Location: Melbourne
UTC quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
What's the point of even keeping the black seal on, when it's on the inside facing the gears? Why not just take it out?
It's not a seal. See the picture SaFiS posted. It looks like it's a carrier for the ball bearings. We're seeing the back of it installed in the engine.
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2536
Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2536
Location: Siam
UTC quote
autojack wrote:
nomadinsiam wrote:
What's the point of even keeping the black seal on, when it's on the inside facing the gears? Why not just take it out?
It's not a seal. See the picture SaFiS posted. It looks like it's a carrier for the ball bearings. We're seeing the back of it installed in the engine.
Sorry, didn't realize that. I wonder if that would restrict lubrication.
OP
@ph0ngvu avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
 
Hooked
@ph0ngvu avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
UTC quote
qascooter wrote:
Wow, excellent pics PV! I'm glad you posted them. And yes, the engine stand looks fantastic. That's some serious engine rebuilding. Good job! Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon

That engine stand has got me thinking about diy stands that aren't welded. Hmmm...
Yea, I just want to have something that can be disassembled to smaller pieces and put away. With the same base and different pipe setup, it also can hold those Motobecane, Mobylette engines.
⚠️ Last edited by ph0ngvu on UTC; edited 1 time
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9201
Location: Nashville

92 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9201
Location: Nashville

92 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
My current stand is one that I hacked together out of some random lumber. I worry it's going to collapse every time I kick a bike over on it.

I'll definitely going with the piping on a proper base route before my next rebuild.
OP
@ph0ngvu avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
 
Hooked
@ph0ngvu avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
Nice job! How did you come to have all those pistons?

I hope you removed the cover/seal from the clutch side bearing? Seeing it has the proper seal on the other side you want some lubrication to get in there.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
I went to Europe in April and was able to visit a couple scoot "swapmeet". Still lot of NOS parts being sold there. There was one guy with a full trunk of NOS pistons.
nomadinsiam wrote:
autojack wrote:
Ginch wrote:
SaFiS wrote:
These are not sealed bearings. They're polyamide ball caged bearings (instead of steel caged). They're supposed to be quieter, stiffer and more flexible...
So wouldn't you want the 'open' side towards the lubrication?
I got it now. In the 7th photo of the original post, it looks like there is a gap between the black cage bit and the outer bearing race. So oil can get past that.
What's the point of even keeping the black seal on, when it's on the inside facing the gears? Why not just take it out?
You are right. I was wondering why as well. Unfortunately, I did not know you can remove the bearing seal. Should I worry about the bearing not have enough lubrication?
GickSpeed wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
Oh, how I love seeing battered old motors being lovingly coaxed back to life. You are doing it first class w/ all quality new bearings etc.

I've always wondered about those yellow inserts in the main crank bores. I always thought they were brass and yours look to be, but I scrapped a motor that had plated iron inserts. They weren't dimpled all around in the case like yours, seemed original and I've seen enough of them to think they are maybe factory items in some motors?

Anybody know?
The dimples are not standard; someone has done this to stop the bearing from moving in the brass sleeve. I often see this on Asian bikes; this area is worn out. The right way to resolve this issue is to machine new brass sleeves and install. The early bikes had brass sleeves and later went to steel. Hope all that helps.
I see your point. I'm not original owner of this engine until 5 summers ago. It has 40+ years of unknown history.
OP
@ph0ngvu avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
 
Hooked
@ph0ngvu avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
UTC quote
some more porn.
⚠️ Last edited by ph0ngvu on UTC; edited 3 times
@moto64 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1747
Location: S.Salem, NY
 
Molto Verboso
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1747
Location: S.Salem, NY
UTC quote
I have to ask... how do you test a crank by putting it on a can ?
OP
@ph0ngvu avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
 
Hooked
@ph0ngvu avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
UTC quote
Moto64 wrote:
I have to ask... how do you test a crank by putting it on a can ?
Laughing emoticon I didn't really test it on the can. Gotta put it on something to take picture. What I did prior to that was to make sure the connecting rod doesn't slide side to side and everything else looks good visually.
OP
@ph0ngvu avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
 
Hooked
@ph0ngvu avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
UTC quote
weird, last post images were out of order.
install cylinder styds
install cylinder styds
get the engine bolts on. I reused most of original bolt and screws. Some people are against it and use new one but why not reuse when they are in great shape.
get the engine bolts on. I reused most of original bolt and screws. Some people are against it and use new one but why not reuse when they are in great shape.
clutch time! replace corks, plates
clutch time! replace corks, plates
all good to go
all good to go
change out worn part of clutch lever.
change out worn part of clutch lever.
clutch in, bend the tab
clutch in, bend the tab
clutch cover on
clutch cover on
original factory 3 ports and header. A Piaggio NOS 57.8 piston go with it.
original factory 3 ports and header. A Piaggio NOS 57.8 piston go with it.
mount the piston and rings.
mount the piston and rings.
gasket in place, piston ring compressed, sliding cylinder over.
gasket in place, piston ring compressed, sliding cylinder over.
looking good, arrow down.
looking good, arrow down.
header in place. Did not clean as it should be.
header in place. Did not clean as it should be.
original flywheel & stator next.
original flywheel & stator next.
looks like flywheel magnetizing is still very good.
looks like flywheel magnetizing is still very good.
install stator
install stator
put on woodruff key
put on woodruff key
install NOS coil without any thinking
install NOS coil without any thinking
then realizing original stator is messed up and needs some new parts. Replaced with NOS condensor, coils and point
then realizing original stator is messed up and needs some new parts. Replaced with NOS condensor, coils and point
all set
all set
preadjust timing a little and temporary screw in flywheel.
preadjust timing a little and temporary screw in flywheel.
OP
@ph0ngvu avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
 
Hooked
@ph0ngvu avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
UTC quote
more and more
Selector looks to be ok just need clean up and not rebuild.
Selector looks to be ok just need clean up and not rebuild.
gasket
gasket
slide it in
slide it in
and done
and done
Carb time
Carb time
stock carburetor looks great
stock carburetor looks great
rebuilding time. Taken apart.
rebuilding time. Taken apart.
all clean and assemble time with new parts from Dellorto kit.
all clean and assemble time with new parts from Dellorto kit.
on board
on board
considering on a 40+ yrs old engine, stock filter is still in great shape. A quick clean and assemble
considering on a 40+ yrs old engine, stock filter is still in great shape. A quick clean and assemble
almost there. Time for the drum hub.
almost there. Time for the drum hub.
rubber seal on, installed circlip.
rubber seal on, installed circlip.
new brake pad or NOS or the one came with the engine?
new brake pad or NOS or the one came with the engine?
installed
installed
right torque? humm no idea :D Repaint? I think old patina looks great.
right torque? humm no idea :D Repaint? I think old patina looks great.
forgot to order castle nut pin. ScootMercato sold for .50c each + $3 shipping. Found a bunch at Home Depot around 49c for 3 :D
forgot to order castle nut pin. ScootMercato sold for .50c each + $3 shipping. Found a bunch at Home Depot around 49c for 3 :D
temporary installed exhaust to test the engine later
temporary installed exhaust to test the engine later
had to stole wifey baking "equipment" to inject oil =)
had to stole wifey baking "equipment" to inject oil =)
oil is in and letting it sits overnight to see any leakage.
oil is in and letting it sits overnight to see any leakage.
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8515
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8515
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
After using the motor for a week, dump that gear oil and get yourself some GL4 rated... GL5 has additives that attack the brass bits (in the clutch).
OP
@ph0ngvu avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
 
Hooked
@ph0ngvu avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
UTC quote
Engine started for the first time in years which is not bad for one with bunch of original parts.

repaint the exhaust with high heat resistant.
repaint the exhaust with high heat resistant.
only found high heat resistant up to 750c. Hope this will last.
only found high heat resistant up to 750c. Hope this will last.
put it back on the frame, connect fuel lines, clutch, throttle cables ...
put it back on the frame, connect fuel lines, clutch, throttle cables ...
engine started after a few kicks.
engine started after a few kicks.
redo the wiring.
redo the wiring.
Old parts but nice and neat along with ring wire connector from HomeDepot.
Old parts but nice and neat along with ring wire connector from HomeDepot.
UTC

Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1968
Location: UK (South East)
 
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1968
Location: UK (South East)
UTC quote
Are you sure about that gear selector rod in the photo under the one with the gaskets? It looks pretty mangled to me, unless it's my eye sight that's bad.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4124
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4124
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Very Nice - I love following along - thanks for posting the pics!
OP
@ph0ngvu avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
 
Hooked
@ph0ngvu avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 496
Location: US
UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
After using the motor for a week, dump that gear oil and get yourself some GL4 rated... GL5 has additives that attack the brass bits (in the clutch).
Really, I did not know this.
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8515
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8515
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
ph0ngvu wrote:
Ginch wrote:
After using the motor for a week, dump that gear oil and get yourself some GL4 rated... GL5 has additives that attack the brass bits (in the clutch).
Really, I did not know this.
To be honest I have no idea how long it takes to do damage, but you may as well use the right stuff.
@philos avatar
UTC

Banned
2001 LML 150 2t
Joined: UTC
Posts: 382
Location: Queensland, Aus
 
Banned
@philos avatar
2001 LML 150 2t
Joined: UTC
Posts: 382
Location: Queensland, Aus
UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
ph0ngvu wrote:
Ginch wrote:
After using the motor for a week, dump that gear oil and get yourself some GL4 rated... GL5 has additives that attack the brass bits (in the clutch).
Really, I did not know this.
To be honest I have no idea how long it takes to do damage, but you may as well use the right stuff.
... like this one?

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/849075007984734208/l3NlQtFM_400x400.jpg
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