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@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
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@chandlerman avatar
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I went to pull my BGM Superstrong clutch out to measure the plates and get some new ones ordered.

And it was stuck.

I mean really stuck.

I started out with the usual "pry with a couple of big screwdrivers" and that got me nowhere. So I tried tapping on one of the screwdrivers. Still nothing.

I put a gear puller on it and cranked that puppy down. Nothing. Applied heat to it. Nothing. tapped on the end of the gear puller with a hammer. Nothing.

So at this point, I'm at a bit of a loss.

I don't want to destroy anything, but I'm not sure what my options are to get the clutch off the crank at this point.

Anyone have any suggestions I haven't tried yet?
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Re: SuperStrong Clutch is Super stuck to the crank
chandlerman wrote:
I went to pull my BGM Superstrong clutch out to measure the plates and get some new ones ordered.

And it was stuck.

I mean really stuck.

I started out with the usual "pry with a couple of big screwdrivers" and that got me nowhere. So I tried tapping on one of the screwdrivers. Still nothing.

I put a gear puller on it and cranked that puppy down. Nothing. Applied heat to it. Nothing. tapped on the end of the gear puller with a hammer. Nothing.

So at this point, I'm at a bit of a loss.

I don't want to destroy anything, but I'm not sure what my options are to get the clutch off the crank at this point.

Anyone have any suggestions I haven't tried yet?
use a clutch puller tool. BGM and few others are now make this. combined with an air ratchet, this clutch will come right off. just a side note, i never use any kind of lever to try to pry off the clutch. it's either going to come off with your hand or not; and if it does not, use the clutch tool.
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Lucky
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Thanks Jon & Safis! I hate to admit that I didn't know a clutch puller was a thing, though it seems pretty obvious now that you say it.

Of course, the BGM is back-ordered and it seems to exist nowhere else.

Looking at the pictures, it pulls the clutch off from the center of the clutch basket?

I may have to fab something up, because I'd like to get this resolved before Slaughterhouse next weekend.
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Lucky
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well...parts are ordered. SIP and Scooter-Center are both getting some of my cash. Stiffer springs, new plates, a clutch puller/compressor/clutch puller combo tool that SIP makes.
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So?? You got it out?? What kind of plates you have??
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Lucky
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no, it's still in there. I had to order the tool.

I found the original box, which had the manufacture date (Nov 2017) and part # on it, so I took a punt that it's the 110mm plates, given that I found their 2016 catalog online which seemed to indicate it took the 110mm plates.

And if it's not, I have a regular 7 spring 22t clutch I can install and wait for a re-order.
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I have the clutch tool, I can send it tomorrow to downtown Chicago with my wife. She works near Randolph and Des Plaines.
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Lucky
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I work at Adams & La Salle, but take the train from Ogilve. I have early meetings on Mondays, but I could meet up with her in the afternoon at her convenience.

If she takes the train in, I could meet her at Union or Ogilvie, too.

Thanks!
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Okay, 656 W Randolph, Chicago Federation of Musicians. My wife, Terry is the president. They're open till 4:45.
Hope this is what you need!
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It looks different than what I ordered, but If it works, I'm happy!

I'll swing by tomorrow afternoon and pick it up, then get it back to you at Slaughterhouse on Saturday.

Thanks!!!!!

-chandler
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That looks like a clutch puller for a small frame not a large frame.

I would be sticking to your original plan of fabricating something yourself if you have to get it going in under a week.

Cheers

MattO
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Lucky
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I don't *have* to get it going. I can ride my VBB, but it would not be my first choice for getting to and from the rally.
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Interesting looking tool (the BGM clutch extractor). I wonder what the large round washer part is for?

It may be in tips and tricks but I can't find it... someone suggested using an open ended spanner (that would be wrench for you guys what don't talk English proper) wedged in between the basket and the end of the crank, levering the basket up. Similar in a way to the action the tool creates I guess. Might be worth a try.
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Grimmreaper is right, my puller is for a Smallframe. Sorry Chandler!
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No worries, I appreciate the offer.

I assumed the big washer is so you can also use it as a clutch compressor.

the SIP tool I ordered is a multi-purpose flywheel puller/clutch compressor/clutch puller. It's intended for inclusion in a travel tool set, which would not be the worst thing a guy could own.
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chandlerman wrote:
I assumed the big washer is so you can also use it as a clutch compressor.
Exactly...
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SIP and Scooter-Center have both shipped my packages out.

I realized that I'd forgotten to order a new woodruff key, on the assumption that it's going to be mangled. Luckily, I was able to add in a nice, hardened Crimaz woodruff key right before SIP pulled and shipped my order, so I won't be kicking myself for that.

FedEx says the clutch extractor and a new clutch-side woodruff key will arrive at my house on Friday, which usually means Thursday.

DHL don't have an estimated delivery date yet, but the SIP package is critical path to get the SuperStrong off and I can throw a standard clutch on there for a couple days if I need to.

And now, of course, the VBB's clutch feels like it needs a new bushing....

I guess one way or another, that 22t I rebuilt yesterday is going in a bike, I just don't know which yet.
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We happen to have an unusually large and fully stocked local hardware store that carries metric woodruff keys and even split pins. Whenever I need one I usually stock up because they're cheap.
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I can get split pins easily. I know that Home Depot and Lowe's carry woodruff keys, but have never checked if they have the correct sizes.

I ordered a dozen fly side keys some years ago because I kept forgetting to fully tighten the flywheel and shearing the key the first time I was setting my points timing (don't ask...I'm slow some days), and have only gone through one since then.

Clutch side, I assume it's going to be be a disaster so I ordered a nice, hardened Crimaz.
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I bought the SIP clutch puller, but it doesn't fit a Cosa style clutch. I ended up using a pair of appropriately sized spanners/wrenches as per Ginch's post. Worked a treat on a very tightly fitted Cosa clutch.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
swa45 wrote:
I bought the SIP clutch puller, but it doesn't fit a Cosa style clutch. I ended up using a pair of appropriately sized spanners/wrenches as per Ginch's post. Worked a treat on a very tightly fitted Cosa clutch.
Must have been you then! The idea (and not the author!) stuck in my head.
Chandlerman, have you tried this yet?
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Lucky
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I'll give the spanner/wrench idea a try in the morning. I've been too busy and/or tired this week to pay any attention to it.

Were you able to do this with the motor in the bike? And did you lever against the basket or the plates?
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Actually, I probably read the same thing as Ginch, so cannot claim to be the primary source. However, it worked well. I believe that with the correct size of spanner, you'll get the bottom 'jaw' hooked under the basket, the curve of the spanner providing the pivot. the body is your leverage, and you won't damage the cast rim of the clutch housing, so long as you exercise caution and common sense.

By the way, the SIP multi-tool makes an excellent flywheel puller and clutch compressor.
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and the pivot pushes against the end of the crank like this. External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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Voodoo is absolutely correct, and it works really well. I must refrain from posting early morning, before I've had at least four cups of coffee. Not sure what I was thinking!
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Lucky
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That's what I was thinking but wanted to make sure. I'm taking an extra-long Labor Day holiday, so I'll give it a shot this morning.

I may need to drop the motor down on the swingarm to make room, in which case, it'll give me the motivation to get the BGM back on at the same time.
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Update: It's off.

It required a 3-armed gear puller and all the juice my 24v impact wrench could deliver, but once the clutch is rebuilt, it'll be ready to roll again.

Once I was able to get a closer look at things, I could see that the clutch had spun on the crank a good 150 degrees.

I tried the "pry on it with wrenches" approach, but that got me nothing but sore hands.

At that point, I went ahead and dropped the motor down on the swingarm so I could get at it better and was able to fit the three-armed gear pulled on the clutch.

No visible warping of the basket, but only rebuilding & reinstalling will tell for sure.

There's a visible notch in the center of the clutch, but I figure that will be OK since it's not a moving part. Hell, its non-moving-ness was the source of my problems.

And, finally, a better look at the chewed up clutch plates which I figure started this all.

Now, I just need the new parts to arrive so I can get this bad boy back together, but in the meantime, the BGM will be going back on, just in time for Slaughterhouse!
Yeah...that's not good...
Yeah...that's not good...
Give me a long enough lever (or, in this case, inclined plane) and I can move the world!
Give me a long enough lever (or, in this case, inclined plane) and I can move the world!
Non-moving part.
Non-moving part.
I swear, it was like this when I started!
I swear, it was like this when I started!
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UTC quote
ooof looking at the clutch primary gear your crank has taken a serious amount of load i hope its not bent !!!
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Chandlerman, whatever do you do to your engines? Multiple BGM kits stripped of their nicasil, superstrong clutches ripped to shreds, carbs set on fire.........

@safis avatar
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Man, talk about thrashing!!! That's just crazy!!! I hope the CR plates will handle you Razz emoticon Razz emoticon Razz emoticon
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swa45 wrote:
Chandlerman, whatever do you do to your engines? Multiple BGM kits stripped of their nicasil, superstrong clutches ripped to shreds, carbs set on fire.........

I'd say he's torture testing these popular components for all of our benefit, what they will and will not withstand and reporting his results. Clap emoticon

I was also wondering if CR plates are being considered? Especially after seeing this carnage:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Could be a dead cush drive, but do you occasionally like to power shift and pop the front wheel off the ground?
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
I assume the crank is ok? Perhaps (with the plug out) get someone with a drill on the flywheel to spin the motor over while you look at the clutch side of the crank.
I'm also very pleased that the BGM will live again to seize the day... uh, I mean... you know what I mean... Razz emoticon
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To answer everyone's questions..

The Superstrong is rated stock at 20 HP. I was getting about 25 HP off that motor with the BGM and various other go-fast parts. Along with that, if I didn't throw myself out over the handlebars on takeoff and make a conscious effort not to, the front wheel was coming off the ground, like it or not.

I ordered heavier springs, which should be good to 30 HP, along with new plates. The corks and steels were all trashed by the clutch removal adventure.

As to killing the Nicasil, I only killed the Nicasil on one cylinder. The other was just me putting in the wrong main jet by mistake and melting the piston. Replacement piston along with the second BGM are back in the bike, so once the clutch parts show up, I'll spend some time re-jetting it and hopefully be ready to ride tomorrow night.

I figure adventures like these are just the price I pay for building fast bikes without always knowing what I'm doing

And setting the Stella on fire was a total freak accident. I mean, who hasn't accidentally pulled their plug wire loose while kick starting and caused a small fire...
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V oodoo wrote:
and the pivot pushes against the end of the crank like this. External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Ive been away for almost two years travelling (being a slacker) and then one of the first pics i see on here is one of mine


stuck clutch, ideas



I thought i recognized that spanner in the photo
(The 'wrench' - not me!!)
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A final update, new steel & cork plates arrived on Saturday, so yesterday I sorted the clutch, swapped five of the springs for stiffer springs, and put it back in the bike yesterday.

I used a Crimeca hardened woodruff key, too, which was just over 4mm thick, so I had to grind it down to 3.9mm to fit in the crank slot. After that, with a little bit of futzing and fitting, though, it's installed and working beautifully again. The clutch is a little heavier than it was, which is not surprising with the stiffer springs, but still significantly lighter than the stock clutch with heavy springs.
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bholinath wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
and the pivot pushes against the end of the crank like this.
Ive been away for almost two years travelling (being a slacker) and then one of the first pics i see on here is one of mine


stuck clutch, ideas



I thought i recognized that spanner in the photo
(The 'wrench' - not me!!)
It's a good trick & it's buried somewhere in the tips n trix thread.
Good job fitting that clutch Chandler, remember now, easy shifting & gentle clutching.
OP
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
remember now, easy shifting & gentle clutching.
Hah!

I was babying the stock clutch that was in there, but I'll try to tame my "ride it like I stole it" ways!
@berto avatar
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Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
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Molto Verboso
@berto avatar
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1925
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I used a Crimeca hardened woodruff key, too, which was just over 4mm thick, so I had to grind it down to 3.9mm to fit in the crank slot.
Does the grinding not compromise the hardening?
OP
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9839
Location: Nashville

48 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9839
Location: Nashville

48 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
berto wrote:
chandlerman wrote:
I used a Crimeca hardened woodruff key, too, which was just over 4mm thick, so I had to grind it down to 3.9mm to fit in the crank slot.
Does the grinding not compromise the hardening?
possibly, but it was either take .1mm off or not use it. I used emery paper and just scrubbed it down, so the impact should have been pretty minimal.

I'll let V oodoo chime in as the resident metallurgist
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