Modern Vespa

This one looks awesome. Very similar to the smallframe kit he's been producing for a while now. A few shops are carrying it, SIP included apparently but I can't find it there. On his facebook page he's not saying a whole lot about it.... these pics are from fb and Duepercento mainly. Also a little video where he tries linking the front and rear brakes hydraulically - with a bit of success apparently.
Looks like I can't post the video, see if this works...
https://video-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.9040-2/38867461_248561745983513_2163277071676080128_n.mp4?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6InN2ZV9zZCJ9&oh=0d220397b1686ff6b04c9362def22af2&oe=5B854EE0

http://www.duepercento.com/product_info.php?products_id=5255 It's 510 euro.

Chatted with him a little last night on fb. I asked if he had done anything about the diving when under brakes. This is referring to the linked two disc setup in the video. I asked if he had some way of balancing front and rear braking force and he said no.

many thanks Brother M, now i know how to make one for myself the diagram really help a lot

will think it over and cheer

Keep me updated on your efforts E! Would love to see it!

Damn you, you know I've wanted a disc brake set-up on the Rally and now I'm going to have to look in to this and see if it is a simpler option. Sigh.

Well it is. You don't need to change the fork for a start... he assures us they are all bolt-on.

Sounds just too good to be true, but I am up for a plug and play always. Roll on December. Thanks for the info Michael.

Apparently the attached sheet should have been in the box. I think it says I need to pull out the grease nipple and fir a rubber stopper (none in the box) in its place.

Anyone able to point to a good thread (with pictures for this slow learner) showing how to pull a Sprint/Super front hub apart and put it back together? And/or how to do the same with the spring (Pictures ditto...)

I promise to sprinkle this thread with install photo's in return (f I can figure out how to route the brake hose)

Craig

Craig,

Did you get this on OK and was it a winner???

Thanks, hope lock down is over quickly for you guys in Melbourne.

I've put one of these on my 125 t.s. It works very well but of course the front does dive under braking so you have to be careful.

When I fitted the kit I also replaced the spring with a stiffer one, the damper with a BGM PRO Sport, I also replaced all the bearings, the spring attachment and other bits of hardware.

Add to that a brake lever/master cylinder combo and the brake hose, then things are getting close to the PK fork conversion price, which is probably what I would do next time for a tuned oldie.

To fit the kit and to do anything to the hub, axel or the caliper, once the kit is fitted, you have to remove the disc from the hub by removing the 5 torx head screws. So you need a good quality torx screwdriver. There are no instructions, so no torque settings, you need to tighten everything as much as you think and I used locktight on everything with a thread. The kit fits straight onto the exisitng forks with no drilling or welding, so you can easily revert back to the original brakes.

I fitted mine during the christmas holiday 2019 and have only had one problem since. The screw holding the caliper bracket came loose inside the hub after a very serious emergency stop. So of course everything has to be removed to get to it.

Finally, you have to learn how to bleed brakes, bear in mind that brake fluid is hygroscopic so it attracts moisture, I learnt the hardway that it isn't a job for a rainy day....

Pete

Alan, he hasn't ridden it much. I did have a 10 minute ride and the brakes worked very well. As PeteB notes though, you need a good shock and spring - people are saying that the SIP shock and stock spring are a good combination. Something about a stiff spring not allowing the shock to work to it's full capacity.

I don't have it on mine obviously, but I did just buy the new Crimaz master cylinder - version 2, and it's a lovely thing. Very discreet with a built in reservoir.

that is super clean!

Which bike is that one?? It looks weirdly unblemished

Thanks for the update. Might have to lug a set or two back with me when I can enter Australia once more. One for the Rally and one for the Sprint. Seems the easiest solution for adding a Disc set-up. Keep your phone on

Thanks Pete, I like the locktight and torx screwdriver tips. 8) Definitely some points to consider when comparing the Disc options. Cheers

Isn't it? And it fits!! My only grumble (and it's small) is that the outlet for the hydraulic line is from the bottom rather than the side. So less chance to keep it hidden, but still nice. That's the Blue Badge smallframe, courtesy of Terry, Owen and Patrick!

I'd like to see a linked setup with drum rear. Maybe have a hydraulic cylinder that mounts underneath and pulls on the rear drum cable?

I was looking at playing with a hydraulic clutch and lever.

You could do a rear brake the same way, but you'd have to figure out how to connect the master cylinder to the brake pedal. I have thoughts, basically mount it to the side of the tunnel like the brake light switch, but nothing solid until I get one to look at and can figure out how what you would need to chop off and then add mounting bolts.

How close to being on the road is it. Will you make the not-the Mille, not that I'm sure you'd want to ride a smallframe that far?

We will have moved back down under by this time next year all things being well with the world once more. Kind of wish we had of bitten the bullet and headed to Perth at the first inkling of this

Would have been plenty of time to get 'Alice's' Sprint sorted I suspect.

Crimaz did try that, it was a couple of years ago so I assume he thought there was not much call for it. Uses discs both ends. His method was... kinda crude you might say, but he said it worked well. Just run both calipers off the same master cylinder, no biasing or anything. Or rear only via the pedal. There's a video here - I'm still hoping it will possible. Numbers are looking good atm. Just a matter of having time to run it in and deal with any issues that might come up. "Alice's Sprint". Good one!

Hi! I just mounted the Crimaz front disc brake to my rally but I’m not sure where the brake hose is supposed to go. Through the fork like the old wire?

I put the hose of mine then straight up through the fork tube, you should be able to see from the image.

Thanks! It seems like the most logical way. Got confused by the not so great technical manual.

Such an elegant design. I love how low key the master cylinder is.

outstanding PeteB now I want.

The only thing I would like to do is change the master cylinder for the more discreet one that Ginch has fitted.

Hello Pete, which front shock have you used and have you reduced the 'dive'? I'd like to beef up my Super's front end (it's 10"), but feel that the suspension is it's biggest weakness rather than the drum brake

I fitted a stiffer spring and the BGM PRO Sport adjustable damper

I took the opportunity to replace all the bearings and other small bits of hardware

seems a lot better

Hey! Thanks for the help. Everything is mounted and seemingly ok but the brake pads are always “on”. I talket to Crimaz and he told me the need to be run in for 500 km wich I find odd. The disc gets really hot after only five minutes of riding.

I have aired the system at my best. Any suggestions on what to do? Thanks

your problem resides at the master cylinder.

when your hand moves lever the fluid cant move backwards. pressure is created which pushes pads into disc. when lever is at rest the fluid is able to move backwards back into the master reservoir. first thing to check is to be sure lever is not allowing the cylinder to return to rest position. simple to remove lever to see if drag disappears. if drag is still present the problem resides in the master itself.


I just had this very problem when I purchase ebay masters for my helix project. I eliminated foot brake by converting rear cable brake to hydro. I wanted the masters to match. the ebay masters did not allow fluid to return in the rest position. I had huge brake drag problems. in my case they wouldnt drag immediately. the more you drove it the more they dragged. eventually locking the brake entirely. had to carry bleed wrench around on rides till I figured out where the heck the problem was. problem was solved by switching to factory yamaha masters. the return hole is very small and very close to first seal. I didnt want to spend the time removing guts of cylinders to modify.

side note: the drum brake converted to hydro is very powerful. very pleased with conversion. can lock rear brake from 40mph with ease. you will have to match master cylinder size to slave cylinder size properly. there are numerous sizes at both ends.

I actually looked at doing a hydraulic conversion for the clutch on my GL project this way.

JerryD, I know you said you did it for a Helix, but how much pain/work/trouble was it to do the basic install and setup?

my info is useless as far as how hard it would be on a vespa. it was easy mod on the helix. re-used ,reshaped original cable bracket for mount. ordered correct length line. my main point was how good drum brakes are when hydro operated. if I ever find an early vespa worth owning I was planning to convert both drums to hydro . its inexpensive compared to disc brake conversion.. drum brakes work far better than people give them credit for. they just basically suck when cable operated. there isnt proper leverage. drum brakes are also known to not work well if water gets into drum when raining. wasnt an issue on the helix. still has great power in the rain the few times I had to drive in it.

I could data on cylinder sizes. but if you plan to operate both front and rear with one lever all that changes as well.

That makes sense. I was thinking you'd converted a fully cabled rear brake to hydraulic.

I agree that drum brakes are under-rated. I can lock up the rear wheel of every scoot I own, and they're all drums, even with an R70/120 11" wheel on my GL for added grippiness.

The front brakes, though, it's as much a problem of the spring+damper suspension causing the front end to shudder under hard braking as the weakness of the drum. I've never ridden a PX with a proper shock & a drum to know how that feels, but for hard braking, my Stella is definitely the best of all my bikes because of the modern suspension and front disc.

I guess it's time to start saving for a PK fork

I could let mine go maybe, I've been wanting to switch to a Zip/ET4 fork.