Modern Vespa

whooosh.... genie swoops in on her scooter to join the ranks of brits ... well, sort of... as the canadian-born spawn of a yankee dad and a crumpet-eater mum i'm a canadian-american-brit (triple nationality).

i lived in montreal for 10 years before moving over here and i have to agree with raisinhell - the north american lifestyle tends to revolve around 'stuff'. i offloaded four truckloads of stuff from my 10-room flat before moving over here, where i now share a 5-room flat with my partner. we maintain a strict policy of getting rid of something whenever we get a new thing in the flat, otherwise we'd be sleeping in the garden.

on a basic level i think the problem that michael moore brought up in his original post has to do with a perceived link in western society between progress, rights, and gratification. we believe that it's our right to have lots of stuff, we find it gratifying to have lots of stuff, and we think we've moved forward in our lives if we have more stuff than we had this time last year. since moving over here, i've had to rethink this relationship - there literally isn't any room in my life for all the stuff i want, so i've had to think hard about what i actually need (please note that shoes are immune from this hard-line policy. we make room for the shoes ).

this all sounds a bit po-faced and i hope i'm not coming across as some sort of poster girl for a north american paradigm shift ... but i do believe that a basic confusion between wanting certain things and actually needing them, lies at the heart of this debate. [*stirring yet thoughtful orchestral extro...*]

This post has be subjected to Ethnic Cleansing out of respect for the person that wished it be removed~

I've never met a poster girl for a north american paradigm shift.

I have been watching this thread like a Hawk as it was surely going to turn to custard and I have a big padlock at the ready.
I just want to congratulate the contributors for keeping it within the bounds of MVs guidelines.

See - we can be good boys and girls if we've had enough sleep and the weather has been good enough to let us go riding to get our zen back.

Yep Genie's on the money.

When you think about what our parents had and what we have, we've all got lots of stuff and we are all expecting the world to keep delivering more and more prosperity. Unfortunately these things go in cycles.

I managed to live without wheels of any kind for ten years. When I moved house I hired a truck. If I wanted to go away for the weekend I hired or borrowed a car. I used public transport, I caught taxis, I walked.

My Vespa is a pleasure machine, so perhaps it is just as indulgent as owning an SUV. And of course I'm already thinking about adding another scooterto the collection. Do I need it? No. Do I want it? Yes.

<<Please>>

Wrong emphasis - you poms say "mate" - short a.

in Strine its Maaayyyyyttte!

Depending on its context, it does change a little!

No-one is saying you don't "have the right" to do want you want (within the context of your jurisdictions laws). Certainly no-one has the "right" to damage your truck.

But just becuase someone has a "right" does not mean they have to do it.

I have rights too: a right to be able to ride my scooter without fear or favour of being run over by a vehicle that is rarely or never used for its designed purpose.

I also have responsibilities, which I accept and take very seriously.

I have a responsibility to ride in a safe and considerate manner. I have a responsibility to dress in a certain way that enhances my visibility, and minimises trauma should I be involved in an accident.

I have a responsibility to use the limited resources of this planet wisely and fairly. Other countries have the right enjoy what I have enjoyed.

What happens when someones rights clash with someone elses? (the lawyers make money ) whose take precidence?

One of my favourite quotes is an American Indian one " we do not inherit the earth from our fore-bears, we are caretakers of it for our children".

All lit by the Darth Vader of English Electricals - Lord Lucas, Prince of Darkness.

Didn't most of the pom bike come with a dog and a white stick?

One of the most interesting threads yet. Wish I got here sooner.

There's mighty big scope in the original question - spanning individual, municipal, regional, and national contexts. I started a dissertation in response, but my wrist hurts and the meds are supplying too many inappropriate adjectives. Here's an attempt at a summary answer:

There are no positive scooter images on American T.V.

or..

A national fixation on security and personal status maintained by ammoral marketing and manipulative media makes us blind to the benefits of scootering.

or..

Only fairies ride scooters and all the U.S. fairies moved to Middle Earth (somewhere near Christchurch NZ).

Read on if you've got the time...

On an individual level, my wife and I bought our scooter for the following reasons, no priority:

Economy - low-cost operational expense
Environment - low emissions, less energy per distance travelled
Convenience - mobility and parking in an urban environment
Fun - its exhilarating, cage comfort is nice, but I like the wind, the noise, and the direct connection to the landscape. I lose that in a car on the freeway. Dates on the scooter are a hoot. A hot hoot.
Design - stay clean on the way to work, good storage, comfortable ride. We chose a Vespa for the aesthetic appeal and sweet style. My wife doesn't want to ride a motorcycle, but she'll saddle up on a scooter.

We also considered safety and are willing to trade some risk for all those benefits. We minimize the risk by gearing up. Even after my recent accident, I'll advocate scooters as an excellent and reasonably safe mode of transportation. I also believe the road risks are higher in the US in general because we are a car/truck/suv culture. You can't ignore the physics when you're on the road surrounded by F-150s, Escalades, Navigators and Hummers.

Even in Hawaii where scooters are commonplace, our decision was looked at askance by many of our friends and co-workers. Most skepticism focused on:
Safety - Nearly everyone has a friend of a friend who got creamed on a scooter or motorcycle, or has seen an accident, or has read a story in the newspaper. Accident stories are the dominant form of scooter education - and the only one with mass reach. Friends discussed the multitude of safety features they sought in their cars - airbags, antilock brakes, frame construction, etc. Hitting the streets without these features to protect you from "the idiots" seems insane to many.
Image/Status - Scooters are seen as cheap, teen/student transportation. They're something you outgrow. They're not seen as an "adult" way of getting around. People asked if I was worried about being called a dork. They asked if it was a money thing, concerned that we can't afford a car. They joked that it was a mild case of mid-life crisis - test run for the Harley. It was suggested that if I want a toy I should buy a mini-cooper instead. Its safer.
Kids - Some cited their kids as the reason they won't get on two wheels. Kids seem to come with a lot of accessory stuff that can't be easily accommodated on a scooter. One friend seemed open to the idea, except that neither he nor the suggestion would survive the grandparents' judgement - if his wife would tolerate it at all. So scootering/motorcycling parent = bad parent.

A lot of these attitudes are the result of media images - sensational accident stories, advertisements that promote images of dangerous roadways and the safe comfort to be found within the car. There, I went and blamed the media - easy target. There's very little exposure to scootering or scooter education in the U.S. We've both lived abroad (China, Taiwan, Thailand, and Japan) where scooters are common, and that must have some influence on our view. Our choice to get a scooter was carefully considered, but an easy one.

I spent a year in Nanjing in the early nineties when it was a bicycle dreamscape with dedicated bike lanes on tree-lined streets. But vehicles there, then as now, are status symbols to be traded up - bike to scooter to car to imported car. I wonder how many American scooterists have traded the car in for a scooter, supplement their scooter with a car, or never had a car in the first place. Do most of us choose to scoot from a position of luxury?

At any rate, it would be great to see scootering promoted and marketed in the U.S. for all of the reasons that we got ours. We had to get educated / exposed to scootering outside of the U.S. mainstream. It would also be nice to have safe driving practices being promoted and enforced to make the streets safer for everybody, rather than inspiring people with me-against-the-world images to get bigger and bigger vehicles. And for crissakes! Get off the celphone and drive like a sentient being!

In the meantime, just like that great American icon Johnny Appleseed, I'll keep sowing seeds of interest with our GT200 (after the repairs).

congratulations if you read this to the end.

I live in Texas. Ride everything form a pea green Stella to a smoky GT200. Texans are big vehicle friendly and intolerant of anyone who is not doing thier desired speed in their lane. entrance ramps: fugettaboutit. I seem to get along with all the other vehicles just fine - I do wear very prominent shirts that indicate a love for street fighting and combatives, exercise my right to carry a gun and I look older.

Never been called a fag, have many rednecks pull up and ask about mileage and top end speed, and 99% of Harley and full size bike riders wave. I sometimes wear full gear and other times short and flip flops. I ride with an attitude that says I belong here too. I don't act apologetically for taking up my half-a-car length and my lane and line is mine. There's body language in scootering just like everything else.

Has anyone else noticed that when you ride with a confidence and try working with the other people - as an equal - they treat you the same way? I had far more trouble in my old Mercedes with a California tag than I do on my scooter that says "90 Miles to the Gallon - Thanks for Asking!"

I also crashed many wedding parties decades before the movie. It's all about attitude.

Masterdale is cool!

Masterdale is accurate - to a point. Driving like you belong on the roads certainly helps. Being meek seems to attract trouble.

But on busy highways, you will never be top dog. Guys in Escalades feel they outrank Explorers, BMWs outrank Volvos, Audis ignore everyone, panel vans don't give a rats rear-end about anyone.

On busy city streets - there are many people who just aren't looking hard enough to notice your attitude at all. If the thing bearing down on them isn't the size of a tank so it actually wakes them up - they just turn in front anyway.

And Jimbo - a slightly different take on the "kids limitation". I have never heard people say they wouldn't have a scooter or MC because of their kids stuff...but Canadian weather limits the practicality of a scooter anyway. They talk about responsibility to their kids. I put off getting a scooter or MC until my kids were teenagers. I also stopped skydiving when I started a family. Some things are really a personal indulgence. I couldn't live with myself if a risky personal indulgence deprived my kids of something - even if it was just them having to miss out on things while Mommy's injuries healed. They are old enough now that my role in their life is much less on a day-to-day basis.

One small addendum to Christine's excellent point....

I'm starting to teach my 13 year old daughter Rules of the Road. I even took her to a go-kart track again yesterday to work on driving lines and defensive and awareness skills.

We have a 4-way stop near our home. Each time we stop there, I ask her to recite the #1 rule. She responds with "He's bigger, he's got the right of way. He wants to go first, let him."

In martial combat, the principles allowing one to employ the other's seeming advantages against them are: Blend, Flow and Yield.

Works really well in traffic too!

You should be able to get 10months out of it without problems... Jan 15 to Mar 15 is about all that approaches the limits for riding. But with most TO winters (read: no snow): 11.5months should be achievable with electrics (vest, grips) and some warm clothes.

People are people are people. We all have specific reasons for riding scoots or maxi-scoots in my case.

A recurring theme I pick up from this thread is that all of us have what I think are perfectly legit reasons for riding/driving whatever we choose. FWIW, I'm not into big gas guzzlers but do like affordable, comfortable and reasonably efficient vehicles. When people ask me why I ride a scoot I simply tell them it meets my needs. If they want to consider my a sissy that's their problem, not mine!!!

I happen to like most motorcycles and have certainly owned my share. But for sheer fun and practicality nothing beats the scoot. . . . and the 65 - 70 mpg I get!!

One of my favorite likes about Modern Vespa is that it is bringing us all closer together and it is usually positive. Anything wrong with that??

Thanks for the post Michael.

Ray

I reported this post twice, but smorris and Tikka closed it with out doing anything. I guess referring to people as dykes is okay. Would you also let the N word slide? You people disgust me. No wonder this place is the joke of the scooter world.

Apologies.

I've worked for gay and lesbian organisations and maybe throw the word about too liberally as I am used to being an honorary insider as it were.

I will edit my original post.

Thank you Scooterrific. There seems to be a lot of homophobic posting on this board which the moderators let slide, but god forbid you talk about helmets. Doesn't make much sense.

It's a pretty easy going forum that embraces a broad church, people are generally careful with each other, but within that there is probably something to offend someone on any given day. I've been there, too.

Helmet conversations are famous for breaking out into warfare on any two wheel forum, hence rules that specifically apply to that topic.

Statistically, 10% of any group of people is gay or lesbian. It is in the best interests of all, in any public forum, to avoid words which can be offensive to others. You just never know who is in your audience.

I was using it in a "dykes on bikes" sense. I have removed it. I have briefly explained my history and relationship to the word. I have apologised.

Anything else?

My post was not directed at you, so please don't take offense. It was just a generic FYI of my opinion, based on my experiences working in state sponsored programs in years past.

It seemed like a good thread and time to drop it in.

This is a big board and as such it has a large gay and lesbian representation. We all make mistakes at time. I've been here for the majority of the duration and can honestly say I've seen little or no derrogatory comments to others based on sexual preference.

Like Lisa, I'm an insider with many gay and lesbian friends. My lesbian sister tells her friends that I am her dyke brother. Meaning I have normally associated female qualities but dress like a burly-man. Plus, I love women. Sounds like she's pegged me, for lack of a better term.

Since MV is a community...more like family...we know how far we can go with established members without offending to get a point across. We're sorry if you were offended and will make a note of it for the future.

Why don't you give us more of a chance to get to know you? We might end up liking one another.

Europeans work fewer hours, generally get more vacation time, and don't work as hard as Americans. Americans work long hours, have less vacation time, and generally work harder. In restaurants, with customer service (here in the states), and in numerous other areas of commerce and business this is evident. The end result is that Europeans have more time for recreation (not a bad thing at all!) but service, generally, sucks. I have seen much of Europe over the years and I've seen this exemplified time after time. Workaholics don't have a lot of fun and tend to die earlier but the manifestation of all this hard work is a relatively strong economy, standard running hot and cold water, prosperity, better service (on many levels), property ownership, etc. Capitalism isn't without flaws but socialism/communism is much, much worse!

post script: Generally, Americans have better dentition. ha ha.

While I don't recall seing derogatory comments based on sexual preference, I do see comments all the time where guys imply others are gay based on stereotypical behavior that they attribute to them jokingly.

I realize it's just banter, but it's the kind of thing best left to PM's. If you want to jokingly tell your buddy that his non-Vespa scoot makes him more likely to be the kind of guy that redecorates houses for a living--that's best done in a private forum where you two know each other. In a public forum, it comes across as homophobic.

I know, because I've seen it here, and I've pointed it out to a moderator. We chalked it up to innocent banter between two guys who know each other really well, but it comes across publicly in a really bad way.

Just thought you should know.

EVERYONE GET A LIFE!

While 10% might be accurate for the population at large, I think it's higher in the scooter community.

I mean, c'mon: we have a Gwen Stefani thread here for chrissakes!

P.S.--I can't stand her, but to each his own. And, yes, she is a gay icon.

Ha ha - my former scooter club has just splintered to form an invitation only group specifically to exclude certain groups. I will leave you to imagine who the former bovver boys from days of yore didn't want to hang with.

I think it is fair to say that SOME parts of the scooter community might have higher than 10%. other bits, far, far, less (and women not very welcome either).

OMG, that's crazy to think that could still happen in this day & age. "Invitation only", eh?

Oh, and thank god for UrbanDictionary.com, or I wouldn't have any idea what you were talking about.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bovver+boy&defid=398753

To me, women add a lot of interest and new ways of looking at things to normally male-dominated forums. I like the diversity. Nothing more boring than a bunch of people always agreeing with each other.

You have to have a working brain to think like that 8)

In America, people have seriously mixed up perceptions about most things.

For example, I think that Harleys and most accepted facets of 'biker culture' are very homoerotic, yet a lot of 'bikers' would call me a fag for riding a Vespa, even though in my experience, a Vespa is near unbeatable in the Vagina magnet department. Likewise, voting for and supporting an admitted fascist somehow makes you patriotic.


**note: I am drunk off my ass and barely able to type right now.

But making absolute sense, so cheers.

That's an interesting viewpoint. Over here Vespas are ridden by people who feel they have their own personal style and are going to ride a scooter anyway but choose a more distinctive vehicle than the generic Honda.

No real need for a "Vespa costume." It's like wearing a comfortable coat or jacket with your clothes that always "looks nice." That's the sizzle.

I like Gwen Stefani....

I find this thread very interesting from a cultural point of view.
The way we travel tells a lot about ourselves and our culture.
In the western world of the 20th century, bikes, trains and cars have occupied a very important place in the cultural imagery.
As to the US, can I just tell you how much I fell in love with Springsteen's songs, Roman Holidays, Sugarland Express, Kerouac's and Pirsig's books, just to name a few?

In Italy, when all the Vespa thing started, in 1946, the situation was very similiar to what is showed in the opening pic. Our country had been nearly destroyed by a ruinous war, and the imperial dreams of our 'beloved' Duce had gone up in smoke. The adjective 'beloved' should be here also used in a serious way, since most Italians did a fatal mistake in following Mussolini's politics and in adoring him as a carismatic leader. But WW2 woke them up from their dreams in the hardest way and in 1946 Italians were so poor that most of them, simply, could not afford food and houses for their families.
Luckily, things got better in a few years (also thanks to the US aids!) and people started to need cheap transportation methods.
Vespa and Lambretta were so smart, cheap, reliable. People started to buy them in huge amounts. They also understood how it was enjoyable to spend the weekends in short trips with their girlfriends or families (yes, families, as you can see in the opening pic). In the most part of Italy the weather is acceptable during all seasons and this is another important factor.

Then came the fashion. Actors, VIPs, movies, Roman Holidays, La Dolce Vita...

In Italy, today like 40 years ago, nobody could think you are poor, or that you cannot afford a car just because you ride a scooter. It is much easier they think you are a smart guy or girl, because you join style, utility, and the speed you need in the crazy traffic of some italian towns

Of course it is a matter of traffic, as well as a matter of culture. As some of you have already written, most people here ride scooters and mopeds from the age of 14 onwards.
And thank God italian scooter and bike drivers are becoming more and more aware of safety matters.

I think that scooters are not so popular in the US as they are in Italy and Europe because culture, road and traffic conditions, fuel price, are very different.
However, I would not be surprised to read that the number of scooters is rapidly increasing in states like, say, California.

I also add that here everybody, disregarding their sexual gender, ride scooters...straights, gays, lesbians, bisexuals...

And transexuals and transvestites.

I guess we have to define "practical". I define it as being able to count on the method of transport.

I have a fairly long, early morning commute over 2 climatic zones (downtown Toronto to well north of the 401) which means I cannot count on ice-free roads as soon as off-lake snow flurry season starts. I can, and do, run errands downtown much of the year - as long as I can avoid salt-water puddles (VERY common in Toronto winters) or ice patches.

Ooopss, I forgot...
well said, brother! (or sister?)