Modern Vespa

Guilty as charged.

You can't drive more than one at a time, SOOOOO,
If they are sitting doing nothing what resources are
they using?
Not trying to flame just food for thought.

None...and isn't that a good thing?

True.

But the thread title is Differences between Americans and the rest of the world.

In that spirit I was trying to point out an example of the "more and bigger is better" mentality.

It is my observation that Americans are very much obsessed with acquiring things.

It's not that they can only drive one at a time, it's that they have so much they don't need.

My parents are just an example. I see everyday the motorhomes driving down the interstate towing a full-sized truck with a golf cart in the bed.

I'm English but have lived in America most of my life. I went back to the UK this Summer. I like how television ads aren't as insulting to your intelligence in the UK. I hate ads but they seem less annoying in England, they are more clever. US ads assume this fake "family values" type image.

Wasn't knocking what you said Crackhead,I understand
your point. My observation was from a different view of
the situation.

By the way - they may not be actively "using" any resources as they sit there (besides space - which IS important), but they took materials and energy to produce, they take materials and energy to maintain (even if they don't move much) and they will become more junk to be buried or whatever.

Surely Americans are not the only ones that have multiple scooters............

Multiple scooters are much lesser a sin...............

Understood.

Thanks for mentioning that Christine. I didn't even want to approach that side of the conservation debate for fear of adding another 5 pages to this thread.

Not that it isnt interesting already!

When this tread started we were talking about
rep and cool. What happened?

I didn't see it as a "rep and cool" discussion. I saw it more as a discussion of cultural differences (of which "rep and cool" is part) and perhaps the rationale for those differences.

Oh - and I took it to mean stereotypical "North American" culture (which doesn't normally include Mexican culture), not just Americans as in only the USA. When it comes to stereotypical vehicle culture, there isn't much to separate Canadians and citizens of the US. We share an awful lot of the same issues of geography and most of the same brainwashing by media and industry.

True

1.1kg iBook = 100kg of manufacturing material and embodied energy.

Very true. Very little separation beyond a mysterious line on the lake.

<--- looks in garage/driveway and sees eight vehicles. and not the least bit ashamed.

Why should I be. I've worked hard and saved to be able to pay of all of my debts and pay cash for my toys. It is no one's business if I have one car or ten. I'm an enthusiast, and enjoy what I have. I could give a rats ass if I'm politically correct or environmentally correct.

If they are old ones, then they have already been made, and it's doing no more harm to keep them around to look at and ride occasionally than it is to scrap them. Then again, those were already built, when times were different and when the market was different.

Enabler!

Thanks!!

I think we got a point, here: the obsessive replacement and disposal of objects in industrial societies is a problem.
You have a smaller environmental impact if you ride the same scooter since 1970, than, say, you had changed it every 3 or 4 years.

In the latter case you would have a more modern, environment friendly scooter, but the amount of material and energy that is necessary to produce 8-10 scooters would be an enormous drawback.

I mean, I ride my PX since 1984 with no problems, and I think it is still perfect for short home-work-leisure trips at (very, very...) low speed.
Obviously, when it comes to medium-long trips, my Scarabeo 500 is faster, more comfortable, safer....
Frankly, I am not sure it will last as much as the old Vespa, and I have the same doubt about all other modern scooters, new Vespa included.

I work for Environment Canada - the Meteorological Service not the environmental policy and regulation folks (just a bit of context). A now long-retired head of the Met Service was getting constant hassle about his 10 or 12 year-old car...poor gas mileage, inferior emmissions controls, etc.

He finally did a cradle-to-grave analysis on resources (materials and energy) required comparing keeping (and running) a old vehicle and replacing with new. I forget all the details, but I believe he came up with 15 years as the optimal environmental replacement cycle for his vehicle use pattern.

So, yes, constant replacement...the disposable culture...is a big problem.

As for the agrument that "they have already been made" (I'm not talking 'vintage' stuff here) - it doesn't hold water because someone buying a used car isn't buying a new car. If I don't hold on to lots of cars, that means there are more to be sold on the used market - which will reduce the demand for new cars.

Of course, this now gets us into the tangled web of the economy of automobile producing regions.............which could explain why North Americans ended up auto-obssessed...we built a massive industry that helped grow our economy.

My brain hurts.

Quite!

I disagree. People who want to buy new cars, buy new cars. People who want to buy used do just that.

When I was looking for a newer daily driver car, I bought new and quickly stopped considering used. Why? I figured if I were going to have a payment of any kind, I might as well have a warranty. Also, the [relatively fuel efficient] cars I was considering were not enough lower in price than new for me to consider it worthwhile, particularly with the better interest rate I got buying new. So it really comes down to the fact that there are people who buy used, and people who buy new, and there is not as much cross shopping between those camps as your argument assumes.

nice one. that's the sort of attitude that'll have us paying for oxygen in a generation or two.

Well, I hate say it but new isn't necessarily an option for many people. The income demographics of this group are probably way above the national mean... not to mention the rest of the world... which is partially what we're talking about here; economics. Economics is the study of buying decisions.

Not that anyone cares, but I'm with Smorris

It wouldn't hurt so much if no one cared about the consequences of some of these attitudes. Collectively, these "me first" attitudes add up and we all (or our children) end up dealing with the consequences. It's not like environmental degradation is all in our imaginations....

Each of us is guilty in some way and to some degree - it's almost impossible to avoid, but why be smug about it?

Kind of like farting in an elevator as you get off. YOU may think it's cute, but it is the rest of the people who have to deal with it for 20 more floors.

This is precisely the attitude that endears "us" Americans, to so many in the rest of the world.
We seem to be able to rationalize everything that pertains to "us" and "our" things.
The attitude seems to be "I've got mine Jack, I'm alright, and F**K the rest of you."

we have piss beer, the rest of the world has real beer.

Can't argue with that.

We do have SOME real beer: microbrews mainly.
Anchor Steam, Sierra Nevada, Flat Tire...becoming more mainstream and more piss-like but Sam Adams...etc... These are just the ones that have distribution I'm aware of off the top of my head.

From my former Italian co-workers at the Toy company. American Pizza and Burgers. No one else does it like us and they're great!

When the owner of the Toy company came, he ONLY wanted to eat at a place where he could get a good "American Burger and Beer".

I would like to add Summit to the list of good local brews - I love the stuff!!! No intentions on hi-jacking the thread and won't mention cupcake either...

I buy whichever meets my needs and gives me the best value. Last two cars: used. Two cars before that: new. Last vehicle (scooter): new.

I'm with Genie

This post has be subjected to Ethnic Cleansing out of respect for the person that wished it be removed~

I'm with genie, mpfrank & company.

More is less. I am so egoistic and politically incorrect that I think I cannot stand mountains of useless objects surrounding me. I do not care about Global Economics Hype. .

GDP is not all in people's life. There are many more important parameters measuring a good or bad (social) life.

Discuss.

I mean, would you trade a trip with your boyfriend/girlfriend in a sunny day, on your old slow Vespa, with a highway trip on an expensive SUV?

sorry, when it comes to this sort of topic i've only got two discursive modes: 'rant', or 'shut up'. .... i'm taking the safe option [exits to garden to install some solar panels]

And put a sail on the ET4...

We have Grolsch