Modern Vespa

Time for an update. Our kits have finally arrived in Greece and today I received mine and Terry's, sent from my friend who placed the team order. Everything came unharmed, although I checked and rechecked for any cracks, etc.

On to the kit. The cylinder head is really well made. The cylinder is way better (ports shape wise) than the first one I saw in FMP's video presentation. The ports of course need to be worked and everything needs to be filled, cause every edge is razor sharp. The kit is still being sold cheap (139EUR now, was 129EUR) and it now has a revised head with a sealing o-ring. Oh, well, at least we got the new pistons.

A few photos...

Anyone in US figure out how to order this with shipping to US? The website does not allow shipping to US and I would order one if possible!

Looks excellent for the money What are all the port heights from deck? Will be able to tell what kind of pipe will be best and where to set the piston.

Needs a good clean up and chamfer. Exhaust could be wider while at it but overall looks good actually.

Looks nice! Some pretty rough edges as you say but still great value.
Do you know if the aluminium one is exactly the same design? Avotecnica has an ebay store that says it ships to Australia, you would have to think they would also do the US as well - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kit-cilindro-e-pistone-VMC-177cc-mod-Stelvio-corsa-57mm-/312119211742

Hmm.. thanks for the info! The ebay link you sent I believe is for the aluminum one guessing from the price.

The cast iron one that is on sale is here I believe (guessing from the sale price on their actual site):
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kit-cilindro-e-pistone-VMC-PX-177-superG-7-travasi-corsa-57mm-e-diametro-63mm/232997197608?hash=item363fb71728:g:Yn4AAOSwoVZb41K0:rk:5:pf:0

Here's a question regarding this cylinder kit and similar ones like it. Does someone make a cylinder cowl/hood for these center spark hole heads.. with the spark hole in the cowl in the correct spot for these heads. Or any suggestions on how to fill in the old hole on one of these cooling hoods after drilling the new hole in the correct spot?

To plug your old spark plug hole, check out this pic again:


I think they've got us covered .

v oodoo, genius! I was wondering what that cap was!

I would also like a 'proper' centre plug engine cowl, rather than one with a new hole cut out and the old hole covered with a flimsy grommet. My kit is going on a 'brand new' five year old PX and I want it to look factory. Would a T5 cowl do the job?

@swa45: Can you tell me how long is the revised piston?? Thanks...

AVO lists it for 10 euro more on ebay, so i just spoke with them directly and they said US customers can order through them if you email them directly with your address, so they can calculate correct shipping. info@avotecnica.com

@SaFiS

New v2 piston = 64.5mm
Old v1 piston = 62.1mm

This is top edge to bottom edge, so does not include the crown height. My verniers are just too short to measure to top of crown

Pretty sure the T5 cowl fits. Also LML were producing 150 cylinders with centre plug heads at one point, though I'm not sure how you'd go about finding the cowls to suit.

@swa45: Thanks. We definitely got the revised pistons...

Something that VMC told us after we got the kits. The cutout on the head must face the top to allow airflow inside the cowl...

In other news. A friend has already mounted his kit on an engine he was preparing while waiting for the arrival. He runs a cheapo Chinese PWK 24 and the new FACO Power BOX. Sounds pretty good...

First start (videos don't work with Chrome)...

Per Terry's request, the link for Chrome users...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfpKo6OhqRs

I have just purchased one. Shipping to USA is 52 euro. I may buy more if others in the US are interested and want to try this kit.

Interesting stuff about that here - Cylinder head cooling

For those who have installed this already, are you using a 57mm or 60mm crankshaft? I found some german blog that said port timings on this are not good for 57mm, meant for 60mm crankshaft. http://blog.ddog.at/neues-interessantes/vmc-177-superg/ (google translated to english)

I was planning on throwing this on my engine plug and play first to run it in and get a sense of before and after plug and play vs case matching, since it is my first engine upgrade/rebuild. I was not planning on upgrading to a long throw 60mm crankshaft, but just switching to a flowed 57mm crankshaft when I do crack the cases and rebuild after a month or so of riding it plug and play. If the consensus is that this kit needs 60mm crankshaft then I guess that is in my future!

Just looking for opinions from those of you who are already running this kit.

It's fine with a 57mm stroke but it needs porting work. See FMP's videos on YouTube. My friend on the video I posted, used a 57mm cut crank and shaved 2mm from the rotary on each side (front and back)...

I'm installing mine on a factory fresh PX125, so won't be splitting cases, changing the crank or doing any case porting. I may run the Dremel around the cylinder if it needs it. To be honest, at this price, I'm just seeing this as an alternative to a DR177. Of course the cat exhaust will have to go!!

I'm not entirely sure that the regular cast iron and the "superG" are the same thing... he says "After the aluminum 177er Avotecnica has now also released a gray cast iron variant in Italy. Meanwhile, the superG is here on the table." Seems to imply it's different?

Michael, I think something is lost in the translation. The superG is this kit. Anyways, ports need work. It will also work well with the 57mm stroke but according to FMP you either modify the ports or raise the cylinder. A 60mm stroke looks more "reasonable" cause you don't have to mess so much with the cylinder...

The video with the timings and optimizations...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPDCTUE_eKs

Seems like he is saying all you have to do with 57mm stroke is use a 3mm base gasket to achieve correct port timings, with no port modifications other than chamfering the rough edges. Seems easy enough!

I just hope it arrives! I ordered it and paid paypal and never got a response from them again once I paid. I've contacted them twice to get a confirmation they received payment and will be shipping it, cause the order on their website still says pending payment. No response to those two emails.. and he was so responsive prior to paying!

Unfortunately he doesn't mention it, but if you raise the cylinder 3mm then you need to take 3mm more or less off the top of the cylinder... or your squish will be 4+mm.

that makes sense and I was wondering if that was the case, but he mentioned it for the 60mm shaft settings, not the 57mm settings. So it threw me off.

Im guessing best way to take that off the top is to flip the cylinder top down on a table with fine sand paper and slowly grind it off in as random movements as possible?

No. Take it to someone that has a lathe and machine it off the top of the cylinder. Depending on your machinists setup, they may be able to run it on a mill.

whats the approx cost for someone to mill it? Yes that is the best option. is it possible to do it yourself on glass with sand or is that a waste of time?

Also, it should be done to the top of the cylinder, not the head, correct?

We are talking about 3mm of cast iron. That's an awful lot of sandpaper!

Cost depends on how easily a machinist can set it up. I'd ask around locally for recommendations.

I'm gonna rant here a bit about what started as great communication with avotecnica but quickly became zero communication once I paid. I went into this transaction fully expecting what could be a month or more between payment and arrival of kit, but fully confident through everyone's good experience mentioned here, and validated by the rapid email response from avotecnica prior to payment. Now I am questioning if my kit will ever arrive, and am stuck in limbo waiting for a package to arrive that I'm not even sure was sent out and wondering how long to wait for it to arrive before having to dispute the paypal payment.

I had communicated with this company through eBay because their website would not let me order with shipping to USA. After speaking with them through eBay, they gave me their email address to contact them: info@avotecnica.com, and had me order on their website with "customer pickup" and choose payment as cash. There were multiple emails back and forth trying to get this order set up with correct cost for shipping included. They finally updated the web order to include postage to USA. This was on Feb 21. They told me to pay through paypal, but did not provide the paypal account to send money to. At that time, I emailed them back and asked clarification on correct email account to use for the paypal payment, but received no response. After waiting a couple days with no response, on Feb 23, I went on paypal and searched for their email I had been communicating with them multiple times through: info@avotecnica.com. I was able to acknowledge they had a paypal account with that email address. I then sent my payment for that order, on Feb 23, including all relevant web order information for their reference. Again, I did not hear any confirmation of payment from avotecnica for days, and I had checked my order status on their website which still said "pending payment".
So I again emailed them at info@avotecnica.com on Feb 27 asking if they received payment through paypal and whether there was any tracking info available if package has been mailed already. No response. March 3, order on their website still said pending payment, so I sent another email same question could they confirm paypal payment received and if the item had shipped. March 7, order on website still said pending payment, so I sent a 3rd email using google translate into italian figuring maybe that will help! I expressed I was not in a rush to get the delivery, and was not contacting to harass them about that, but to just get a simple confirmation from them that the order was processed since their website says it it still pending payment. Again no response. So I am left with today, contacting them through an ebay message, the original method I spoke to them, and am still waiting for a response with no expected time frame for shipment if it has even been sent.

As I said, I am fully prepared for long delivery time, being used to waiting for international shipping from other scooter parts suppliers, but the idea of ordering on their website which still says I have not paid and paying on paypal, with zero response from them for over 2 weeks sure makes you question if this thing will ever arrive, and at which point I need to start going through the process of reversing the payment with paypal. Something I would rather not do.

It's a matter of time. You can try to source a machinist locally in NY. Another option would be to send it out to me in Indy to run. setups and run costs can be anywhere from $50 to $125 depending how much of work to setup and set true.

If you want to take 3mm off the top of the bore, then you'll need to remove the head sealing lip first. This is a nice feature for getting the head mounted dead centre, but with the four additional head bolts, the head should be dead centre anyways. Also FMP is showing a 0.0mm squish band in his video, but the head that comes with the kit does have a squish band of at least 0.5mm at a glance. See photo in SaFiS post from Feb 16th. Maybe FMP machined the head as well, or does he have a different kit?

Surprised this kit takes such a thick packer to even get near reasonable transfer delay.
swa45 would seem FMP is sure a 60mm crank is the only way to go. Did you check your durations?

Not yet Jack. Still trying to find the time to work on my MHR build, so have not even taken the VMC cylinder out of the box yet. I'll shelve it for a future scooter if it does need a 60mm crank or a lot of machining to work well with 57mm. I only ever intended to do a 'plug and play' on this particular PX125.

I contacted them regarding the VMC ignition I bought from 10Pollici (as they are the distributor), and they were pretty good. That's very annoying though. Have you tried sending a message via facebook? Sometimes that is useful as FB keeps some sort of record of their time to respond etc. Also, do you have an Italian friend who can make contact on your behalf? That has made a difference for me in the past. If that brings you no joy, there is a phone number on the website you might try (with your Italian-speaking friend) as a last resort.

Update: Finally get an automated update from their website for my order saying status was filed/unpaid. Immediately checked the order status on their website after getting that email and it said the order was closed due to unpaid. So I responded right away to that automated email saying I had paid with paypal. An actual human responded again out of the blue after over 2 weeks no response. They apologized and refunded me through paypal. Their response: Not sure what the problem was, I would have taken shipment of the kit, but at least it's resolved. Unfortunately I won't be trying to purchase this again anytime soon, unless they can get USA shipping set up on their website. Its a shame, I was looking forward to trying this kit! Looks like i'll be going back to my original plan for the pinasco 177 aluminum kit.

That's a shame! When I bought my smallie stuff from 10Pollici, I had it shipped to a friend in Holland who then sent it on to me. Cost was about 1/3 of their quote to send it directly!

For those of you that have these installed for the past few months, just wondering what you think of this kit? I am still curious about it despite going with the malossi kit. I may try to use it in the future on either this stella or another project if I come across another cheap 125/150 bike.

I have this kit in aluminium with long stroke 187cc. Over a year now runs perfectly

Did anyone in the United States figure out how to get these in cast iron? I wouldn't mind ordering 10, keeping a few and selling the rest. I created an account and emailed 10 Pollici about ordering a quantity of them. Might make it more worthwhile to them. If I can get 10 in the U.S. I figure I can sell the kits to people and get my money back.