Modern Vespa

Bill you are to the point, I give you that. Bang on as far as do not buy the first version. This applies to almost everything. One example I can think of is the BMW C series bikes. First version was not so great but the second time around it was much improved. I'm not a pro when it comes it comes to motorbikes but I am when it comes to technology. We see this in my industry all the time as well.

Check out the new competition - maybe after it passes emissions. We know how long that takes. The Jawa has been officially rolled out.

https://www.jawamotorcycles.com/

[quote="Claude"]Check out the new competition - maybe after it passes emissions. We know how long that takes. The Jawa has been officially rolled out.

Pretty good spiel by JAWA.
They used to make a passable machine some years back. It may well turn out to be great competition for many bikes.

Hmmm... 3 years late and it's finally available on November 15th. What a great time to introduce a motorcycle. (sarcasm for those challenged)

Not just one person, but several department heads need to become unemployed.

I would normally agree, but since it's arriving three years after it was announced, I would hope at least some of that time was to work some problem things out.

Looks like Yamaha/Buddy/Jawa are starting a whole "new" MC sub-segment. Back to the future!

Having put +60,000 miles on an SR500 and owning 2 BV's, I'm going to have to agree with JP on this one with experience.

Yes, the new Jawa is drop dead beautiful. Heaven knows about making it to the US, however.

Harbinger ,

I'd like to quote the wise words of Stephen P Cooper

" Life's too sort to fuck about."

Bill x

Words of wisdom for sure.

Southern Hemisphere > Northern Hemisphere

November 15th couldn't be better.

This bike is tested long term. It's a rebadged Mash.
This isn't a first run bike or original design from Genuine.

The new SYM Wolf 300 is also making a splash with modern styling and an engine to match. Lightweight commuter and sport bikes are all the rage.

https://www.alliancepowersports.com/models/wolf_CR300i.html

That is a good advice. At least one year in the field is needed to address any recalls, bugs, etc. I had the first new VW bug convertible in Utah and it was an absolute piece of shit. It spent more time in the shop than in my garage.

Hm, torque and horsepower aren't too much better than my 300. You know what, kinda like the Genuine 400, I'd test ride it to see.

Jawa is now owned by Mahindra, is any Mahindra product available in North America? Maybe a tractor?

Edit: I just googled and there's 5 facilities distributing tractors in Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Minnesota, North Dakota and South Dakota. So there's some Mahindra presence in America.

Mahindra heavy equipment has a very good reputation in my area. Lots of advertising as well.

Or the Crosby in South Africa.

Yes.
They rebadged all over the world.
The origin of this bike is called the Shineray XY 400. It's got a Yamaha SR 400 copy frame and a Honda clone engine.
Shineray builds them in China and companies just rebadge them for other markets. No R&D required.
Thailand has them branded as Stallions.
You can pick up this bike for under 2,900 USD out here. No way I'd pay the 4500 USD for what it is.

They are reliable no doubt. Just very overpriced by Genuine.

Isn't this an "as compared to what" question? The Sym Wolf 300 is $5000, and the Yamaha SR400 is $6000. Are they all overpriced in the US in your opinion?

I'm familiar with the bikes history and multiple rebadging. I've been following this saga for 4 years for some reason and I no longer know why. For what I understand, the bike is very similar to the Honda 400ss Shineray build for Honda for the South Africa and other markets. That engine is a resign of the GB500 engine. The frames inspiration? I'll take your world for that.

I wish I knew what percent a distributor of a motorcycle makes. Since it is a rebadge, with some mods differentiating it from the others brands, I figure they would perform business like a distributor similar to Alliance does with SYM vs a brand like Honda. Honda would maintain tier own distribution centres throughout North America. With a private distributor there would be the purchasing price, import taxes and freight. The price of the bike would be set taking into consideration salaries, medical insurance, building lease etc... Hardly a paltry amount to operate a business in North America, I imagine. That leads us to the dealer. Dealer profits are notoriously low. That's why the want a documentation and freight fee. They'll take anything they can get. That old joke comes to mind. How do you make a million dollars selling motorcycles? Start with 2 million.


Retail confidential
https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/how-to/about-dealer-profit-retail-confidential#page-4


If anyone wants to share their industry secrets, please jump in.

I'd tip in the extra 1400 bucks and get the Yamaha. Any one with common sense would. It has rich history.
That Genuine will rattle itself loose like the local Stallions do. The chrome on it is junk. Watch it corrode and rust in quick time.
Depreciation is another topic all together.
I have no experience with Sym so no comment.

The price point might fool some but not real enthusiasts of retro motorcycles.

I remember reading the frame was exact dimensions of the SR400 frame.
China loves to copy as you know.

Right now a Benelli 302 is only $3999. Not only is it an Italian design but it would probably perform as well as the Yamaha 400 and Genuine G400. And the Benelli has two cylinders for your money.

But the trouble is no one wants to buy it.

A friend who owns a dealership has had 3 in his shop for 3 years and they havnt budged.

Stick with what you know.

Bill x

Setting aside the fact that the Benelli 302 is about as non-retro as a bike could be - where is it currently for sale in the US? And what is the source of the $3999 price? (the only suggested price I can find is $4900 US in an old article)

And this is where the "perception/reality" chasm resides: When people come up to me in a mall parking lot and ask the usual Ten Questions about my GTS, they're positively amazed when I tell them that one of my criteria for choosing the bike was its ability to maintain highway speeds. "It goes that fast?" is almost always the response. With a "proper" motorcycle, it's never a question: bigger wheels, and an engine you can actually see with your own two eyes...that thing must go like (insert crude metaphor of your choice). But, in some cases, it might not go quite as fast as it seems it should.

80+mph on a bike like mine might seem extraordinary to some. On something like this Genuine? "Not bad", maybe. Of course, at the end of the day, how fast do you actually need to go?

IMHO I would say the freeway speed limit where you ride plus about 30 kph.So here the speed limit is 100 kph (@ 65 MPH) and it often flows at 120 kph in the left hand lanes. I like to have the ability to ride in the left hand lanes and have enough left to pass if needed such as getting around a truck so I can see. My Vespa hits at least 140 kph (don't think I've pushed it past) and the C650GT does a bit over 160 kph. I feel comfortable on both on the highway however the heavier BMW feels more planted.

What color is the smoke off the axles? Asking for a friend.

Yep, It's got Honda 350 vintage bike written all over it. Front to back.
I rode a Suzuki 1970's 550cc for several years that was far more MC in several ways than this new one and of similar "standard Japanese MC design".
Yes, I like the look as that's my kinda style favorite but in the end it's dated technology?

It will compete with several downsize MC's that have come into the marketplace. Those are it's competition, not a cvt scooter? Then again, it remains to be seen if there "IS!" a market for those smaller bikes in the USA? The BMW G650 I sold this summer had nearly twice the hp and far more feature wise than this G400c and yet it weighed only 30#'s more dry weight, similar seat height too.

No problem at all though I still don't know what it will Top out at with a WOT on the freeway.

motor looks to clone a Honda motor that I have in my GB500

I have been seeing more small motorcycles used for commuting on the streets, along with smaller scooters. On the freeway part of my commute, it's a mix of larger sport bikes, large cruisers (mostly Harleys I think), some adventure bikes, and a few maxi-scooters. I have been seeing some smaller adventure-type bikes as well. I think that some weekend riders are trying them out for commuting after watching us split by them day after day.

I think that the small displacement motorcycles are going to get more popular as they are less expensive and more "accessible" rides for beginners, us older folks, and anyone who doesn't need a larger ride.

But we'll see. Anyway, in the US, we're talking about small chunks of a small chunk of vehicles in general.